Which generation was the best?

Terry Ardeno

I still love my wife
Silver Member
One of my very favorite topics on AZB is player comparisions. Lots of banter about which player could beat who, and what generation of players were the best.
I've put together a list of players that were born in each of the previous decades. I'll leave out all the players born in the 1800's becuase I suspect that many of our younger readers will not have even heard of these great cueists. But there were many AWSOME Champions, such as Ralph Greenleaf, Frank Taberski, Erwin Rudolph, Bennie Allen, Hubert Cokes, Charles Seaback, Alfredo DeOro, Albert Frey, Frank Sherman, Thomas Hueston, Jerome Keough, Grant Eby, Onofrio Laurie & on & on.

So, starting with the 1900's, here are some groups of players.

1900-1910
Jimmy Caras
Andrew Ponzi
Don Willis
Jimmy Moore
Andrew St Jean
Hayden Lingo

1911-1920
Luther Lassiter
Irving Crane
Willie Mosconi
Eddie Taylor
Johnny Lineen
Al Coslosky
Charles Cacciapaglia
Rudolph "Minnesota Fats" Wanderone
U'J. Pucket
Mike Eufemia
Joe Canton
John Fitzpatrick
Glenn Womack
George Rood
Arthur Cranfield

1921-1930
Joe Balsis
Bill Staton
Johnny Vives
Al Bonife
Marshall Carpenter
Larry Johnson
Harold Worst
Donnie Anderson

1931-1940
Ed Kelly
Cicero Murphy
Ray Martin
Danny DiLiberto
Frank McGown
Dick McMorran
Leonard Rucker
Johnny Ervolino
Willie Munson
Ralph Guest
Lou Butera
Marvin Henderson
Edgar White
Bob Vanover
Jack Colavita
Bill Stigall
Richie Ambrose
Freddie Bentivegna
Jack Breit
Billy Burge
Ronnie Allen
Melvin Brooks
Mike LeBron


1941-1950
Larry Lisciotti
Dallas West *
Grady Mathews
Billy Incardona
Nick Varner
Buddy Hall
Howard Vickery
Jim Rempe
Jose Parica
Jimmy Fusco
Pat Fleming
Pete Margo
Steve Mizerak
Pete Fusco
Jimmy Marino
Jimmy Mataya
Steve Cook
Dave Bollman
Benny Conway
Mike Carella
Clyde Childress
Louie Roberts
Wade Crane
Larry Hubbart
Dick Lane
Richie Florence
Jimmy Reid
Nick Mannino
Randy Lamar
Claude Bernatchez
Truman Hogue
Mike Massey
Marshall Boelter


1951-1960
Mike Sigel
Leonardo Andam
Allen Hopkins
Rudolpho Luat
Efren Reyes
Santos Sambajon
Takeshi Okumura
Bobby Hunter
Mark Wilson
Ismael Paez
Ronnie Wiseman
Danny Medina
Jose Garcia
Ernesto Dominguez
Jayme Goodwin
Paul Potier
Jeff Carter
Mark Beilfus
Denny Coulter
Gary Spaeth
Keith McCready
Kim Davenport
Roger Griffis
Greg Fix
Steve Davis
David Howard
Danny Barouty
Al Lapena
Dan Louie
James Walden
Mike Zuglan
Edgar Acaba
Dave Matlock
Edwin Montal
Alain Martal
Ike Runnels
Steve McAnnich
Scotty Townsend

1961-1970
Earl Strickland
Oliver Ortmann
Ralf Souquet
Thomas Engert
Fong Pang Chao
Johnny Archer
Francisco Bustamonte
Kunihiko Takahashi
Tommy Kennedy
Warren Kiamco
Antonio Lining
Troy Frank
Tom Storm
Kun Fang Lee
Rodney Morris
Luc Salvas
Chris Szuter
Charlie Bryant
Norbert Lang
Jimmy Wetch
C.J. Wiley
Tony Ellin
Reed Pierce
Ramil Gallego
Frankie Hernandez
Tony Robles
Pablo Matheu
Tony Drago
John Horsfall
Ray Schultz
Jimmy White
Dave Hemmah
Vincent Faquet
Rafael Hernandez
Chin Ching Kang
George Breedlove
Bobby Pickle


1971-1980
Shannon Daulton
Ching Shun Yang
Corey Deuel
John Schmidt
Thorsten Hohmann
Evgeny Stalev
Danny Hewitt
Shawn Putnum
Danny Harriman
Danny Basavich
Ronnie Alcano
Dennis Orcullo
Lee VanCorteza
Larry Nevel
Harold Stolka
Dennis Hatch
Eric Durbin
Mike Davis
Scott Frost
Alex Pagulayan
Michael Coltrain
Joey Korsiak
Marcus Chamet
Alex Lely
Min Wai Chin
Gerry Slivka
Masaki Tanaka
Jon Kucharo
Chris Orme
Mika Immonen
Jeremy Jones
George SanSouci
Fabio Petroni
Neils Feijen
Hui-Kai Hsia
Ryan McCreesh
Gabe Owen
Brandon Ashcraft
Teddy Garrahan
Johl Younger
Rico Dicks
Young Hwa Jeong
Radislaw Babicia
Andreas Roschikowski
Nick VanDen Berg
Steve Knight
Christian Reimering
Tang Hoa
Sandor Tot
Charlie Williams
Quinten Hann
Tyler Edey
Robb Saez
Roman Hybler
Corey Harper
Ricky Yang
Louis DeMarco
Pei-Wei Chang
Po-Chen Kuo
Marlon Manalo
Che-Wei Fu
Gandy Valle
Antonio Gabica
Hiroshi Takenaka
Satoshi Kawabata
Markus Juva
Joven Bustamonte
Daryl Peach
Chris Bartram

1981-1990
Shane VanBoening
Josh Brothers
Shawn Wilkie
Raj Hundal
Pink Yi Ko
Jeffrey DeLuna
Tony Chohan
Chia Ching Wu
Li He Wen
Jung Ling Chang
Naoyuki Oi

*Edited to spell "Dallas" West the right way. Thanks Smorg! :)
 
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freddy the beard

Freddy Bentivegna
Silver Member
Mine was close but no cigar

I hate to admit it, but I believe in my heart that the players from the Depression era through the 40s were the toughest of all-time. I played many of them when I was a kid and my impression was that I could never match the intensity and determination that they routinely had. Playing with Pony Rosen, Procita, Gene Skinner, Babyface, Marcel Camp, Bananas Rodriquez, Youngblood, plus the stories I heard about Detroit Slim, and Johnny Irish, etc., convinced me that those guys were brutes. I always considered myself a hard-core hustler, but I was always glad that those guys were on the way out when I was on the way up.

the Beard
 

bigskyjake

you heard the man
Silver Member
Ter bear, I'm thinking you might have those dates about 10-20 years too soon for each group

EDIT: wait just reread your post and those are the birth years, whoops

Jake (knew Rempe was damn good but didn't think he was knocking off everybody at age 3)
 

tigerseye

Kenny Wilson
Silver Member
Great list of players. It seems the lists get longer and longer as the eras go by. Just think there are so many more out there that could give any of htese guys a run for their money that no one may have neve heard of before....I overheard Strickland say that a cab driver knocked him off for a couple bills once...LOL!! You gotta love the Pearl...=))
Great thread;)
 

Terry Ardeno

I still love my wife
Silver Member
freddy the beard said:
I hate to admit it, but I believe in my heart that the players from the Depression era through the 40s were the toughest of all-time. I played many of them when I was a kid and my impression was that I could never match the intensity and determination that they routinely had. Playing with Pony Rosen, Procita, Gene Skinner, Babyface, Marcel Camp, Bananas Rodriquez, Youngblood, plus the stories I heard about Detroit Slim, and Johnny Irish, etc., convinced me that those guys were brutes. I always considered myself a hard-core hustler, but I was always glad that those guys were on the way out when I was on the way up.

the Beard

Freddy,
Something else I noticed that perhaps you could validate or not. Seems to me that in both generations that fought in both WW1 and WW2, there were less GREAT players.
Here's my question...Do you think it was because so many of those generations spent time in the U.S. military and didn't have the extra time to hone their skills. Were lots of the potentially great players killed in those wars? Or, when the troops returned, was getting a job and starting a life a higher priority.
I know you were in the military, so what's your take on this?

Also, when you mentioned Babyface, I didn't think Alton Whitlow was that "hungry" of a player. I always thought of him as fat's road partner and set up man, although he was a strong player. Strength wise, I'd put him in the Al Bonife, Norm Webber, Willie Munson class. Did I clock him wrong?
 
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jimmy-leggs

A GREAT DAY
Silver Member
Thanks Terry for including arguably the best pool player in canada right now.........Edwin Montal.Being from Calgary its always a please to watch him play and a helluva nice guy.
 

GMAC

Flip it.
Silver Member
I like 51 to 60 u have three of the best all around players ever efren, sigel and allen. Great for both the cash and tournies.
 

putt-putt44

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Any Era That Encompases ''eddie Taylor'' Is The Best !!!!

My Man''freddy The Beard'' Relayed Some Stories To Me That Sent Shivers Up And Down My Spine,,,,,,,,,,,!!
 

Terry Ardeno

I still love my wife
Silver Member
jimmy-leggs said:
Thanks Terry for including arguably the best pool player in canada right now.........Edwin Montal.Being from Calgary its always a please to watch him play and a helluva nice guy.


Jimmy,
I agree about Montal if you don't count Alex as being from Canada.
Do you guys consider Alex Canadian? I always wondered about that. Remember when Lennox Lewis was fighting? He was born in Jamaica, fought for Canada in the Olympics but lived in England. Who gets him?
Same sort of thing with Alex.
Also, I keep hearing Ronnie Wiseman is from Detroit but lives or lived in Toronto. How about him?
And whatever happened to John Horsfall?

That's about 50 questions for you! :eek: Sorry bud!
 

Celtic

AZB's own 8-ball jihadist
Silver Member
just about a said:
I like 51 to 60 u have three of the best all around players ever efren, sigel and allen. Great for both the cash and tournies.

I agree, it is hard to argue against the 10 year gap that gave us the two most dominating players in the game since Mosconi.

Although looking at Mosconi's date range with him, Lassiter, Eddie Taylor, and Irving Crane all in the same decade? That is a strong group right there.
 

!Smorgass Bored

Hump ? What HUMP ?
Gold Member
Maybe There Weren't Any Women During Those Eras

Of course, I hate to be the one to open the floodgates you sexist pig, but where are the WIMMIN ?

Doug
(don't make me Balukus you)
 

PoolBum

Ace in the side.
Silver Member
Hey, you left out some decades. What about 1942-1951? How about 1965-1974? Or for that matter, June 11, 1937-June 11, 1946? Or 1:30pm on February 16, 1953-1:30pm on February 16, 1962?

Ok, for the sets of players you've listed I say the most impressive group is 1951-1960, followed by 1911-1920 and 1961-1970.
 

Terry Ardeno

I still love my wife
Silver Member
"I did NOT have lists with those women!"

Smorgass Bored said:
Of course, I hate to be the one to open the floodgates you sexist pig, but where are the WIMMIN ?

Doug
(don't make me Balukus you)


Doug,
I know that Allison Fisher is my all time favorite woman player. Outside of that I know next to nothing about the women players. Well, I like Xiaoting Pan, Angelina Paglia and Debbie Schjodt also. :) ***But, I LOVE my wife!

In my opinion, the most knowledgeable and well versed historian on women's pro pool players is our very own SJM. On anything related to the women pros, I defer to him.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I believe the level of play is higher now than ever-due to equipment and knowlege its a evolutanary thing 25 years ago nobody knew how to break the ball in 9ball like they do now, players are smarter because of the ease of access to knowlege, even 25 years ago when I started none of the good players would tell you anything unless you gambled with them, now you can learn more in a week on the internet than a year in the poolroom 25 years ago.

I also believe that during the depression era players had it tougher than any other time. My parents were born in the Depression and I heard all about it constantly, my Uncle who is 84 still talks about it like its not over. Hearing their stories is why I believe that.
 

mullyman

Hung Like a Gnat!
Silver Member
Well, the only thing I've got to go on for the really old time players is just what people tell me, so I have to go with the 3 groups of 41-70. It's impossible to choose Buddy Hall's era without adding Mike Sigel and it's really difficult to choose Sigel's group without tossing Earl into the mix.

Even with all the stories of how great those players were back in the old days I just don't think they'd be able to keep up with the modern day players. I'm not trying to degrade them in the least, I respect them with everything I have, but like someone said, there is so much more out there now and the equipment is so much better.
MULLY
 

freddy the beard

Freddy Bentivegna
Silver Member
Jobs after WWll?

Terry Ardeno said:
Freddy,
Something else I noticed that perhaps you could validate or not. Seems to me that in both generations that fought in both WW1 and WW2, there were less GREAT players.
Here's my question...Do you think it was because so many of those generations spent time in the U.S. military and didn't have the extra time to hone their skills. Were lots of the potentially great players killed in those wars? Or, when the troops returned, was getting a job and starting a life a higher priority.
I know you were in the military, so what's your take on this?

Also, when you mentioned Babyface, I didn't think Alton Whitlow was that "hungry" of a player. I always thought of him as fat's road partner and set up man, although he was a strong player. Strength wise, I'd put him in the Al Bonife, Norm Webber, Willie Munson class. Did I clock him wrong?

Terry, there were no jobs after WWll. The War Plants closed down, all the women that were working got laid off and the soldiers came home to no longer needed industries. There were plenty of great players, but anonymity was the name of the game because so few players were invited to play in the big tourneys. The big tournaments usually had only about 16 players. What about Sailor Barge? High run 356 on a 5x10. You mention Charlie Caccipaglia from Rockford, the guy who taught Dallas West. Rockford's Joe Diehl taught Charlie. Joe was regarded as an even up bet against Mosconi. Another guy not mentioned that Mosconi himself thought was a monster was MacDonald, the guy who shot with an open bridge. And Babyface? I knew him really well. Fats had no chance playing Babyface anything except banks, 3 cushion and he was probably the favorite playing 1pkt also. But in those days straight pool was the feature game and the best players were rated as to who played straight pool best. Babyface had a great record against Wimpy playing straight pool for money in the 40s. I know, because I was there, Wimpy moaned and groaned because he had drawn Babyface in the straight pool division. Of course Wimpy won anyway, but 'Face was a lifetime alcoholic and the booze had slowed his game down a few points. Al Bonife, Norm Weber, Willie Munson against Babyface? Ny Blackie (Bonife) was the only guy to have any chance playing Whitlow 9 ball. He would crush all of those guys playing anything else.

the Beard
 

Tarantula

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One of my very favorite topics on AZB is player comparisions. Lots of banter about which player could beat who, and what generation of players were the best...

So, starting with the 1900's, here are some groups of players...

1961-1970
Earl Strickland
Oliver Ortmann
Ralf Souquet
Thomas Engert
Fong Pang Chao
Johnny Archer
Francisco Bustamonte
Kunihiko Takahashi
Tommy Kennedy
Warren Kiamco
Antonio Lining
Troy Frank
Tom Storm
Kun Fang Lee
Rodney Morris
Luc Salvas
Chris Szuter
Charlie Bryant
Norbert Lang
Jimmy Wetch
C.J. Wiley
Tony Ellin
Reed Pierce
Ramil Gallego
Frankie Hernandez
Tony Robles

Pablo Matheu

Tony Drago
John Horsfall
Ray Schultz
Jimmy White
Dave Hemmah
Vincent Faquet
Rafael Hernandez
Chin Ching Kang
George Breedlove
Bobby Pickle

Just curious, how and what do you know about Pablo Matheu?
 

real bartram

Real Cold Steel
Silver Member
One of my very favorite topics on AZB is player comparisions. Lots of banter about which player could beat who, and what generation of players were the best.
I've put together a list of players that were born in each of the previous decades. I'll leave out all the players born in the 1800's becuase I suspect that many of our younger readers will not have even heard of these great cueists. But there were many AWSOME Champions, such as Ralph Greenleaf, Frank Taberski, Erwin Rudolph, Bennie Allen, Hubert Cokes, Charles Seaback, Alfredo DeOro, Albert Frey, Frank Sherman, Thomas Hueston, Jerome Keough, Grant Eby, Onofrio Laurie & on & on.

So, starting with the 1900's, here are some groups of players.

1900-1910
Jimmy Caras
Andrew Ponzi
Don Willis
Jimmy Moore
Andrew St Jean
Hayden Lingo

1911-1920
Luther Lassiter
Irving Crane
Willie Mosconi
Eddie Taylor
Johnny Lineen
Al Coslosky
Charles Cacciapaglia
Rudolph "Minnesota Fats" Wanderone
U'J. Pucket
Mike Eufemia
Joe Canton
John Fitzpatrick
Glenn Womack
George Rood
Arthur Cranfield

1921-1930
Joe Balsis
Bill Staton
Johnny Vives
Al Bonife
Marshall Carpenter
Larry Johnson
Harold Worst
Donnie Anderson

1931-1940
Ed Kelly
Cicero Murphy
Ray Martin
Danny DiLiberto
Frank McGown
Dick McMorran
Leonard Rucker
Johnny Ervolino
Willie Munson
Ralph Guest
Lou Butera
Marvin Henderson
Edgar White
Bob Vanover
Jack Colavita
Bill Stigall
Richie Ambrose
Freddie Bentivegna
Jack Breit
Billy Burge
Ronnie Allen
Melvin Brooks
Mike LeBron


1941-1950
Larry Lisciotti
Dallas West *
Grady Mathews
Billy Incardona
Nick Varner
Buddy Hall
Howard Vickery
Jim Rempe
Jose Parica
Jimmy Fusco
Pat Fleming
Pete Margo
Steve Mizerak
Pete Fusco
Jimmy Marino
Jimmy Mataya
Steve Cook
Dave Bollman
Benny Conway
Mike Carella
Clyde Childress
Louie Roberts
Wade Crane
Larry Hubbart
Dick Lane
Richie Florence
Jimmy Reid
Nick Mannino
Randy Lamar
Claude Bernatchez
Truman Hogue
Mike Massey
Marshall Boelter


1951-1960
Mike Sigel
Leonardo Andam
Allen Hopkins
Rudolpho Luat
Efren Reyes
Santos Sambajon
Takeshi Okumura
Bobby Hunter
Mark Wilson
Ismael Paez
Ronnie Wiseman
Danny Medina
Jose Garcia
Ernesto Dominguez
Jayme Goodwin
Paul Potier
Jeff Carter
Mark Beilfus
Denny Coulter
Gary Spaeth
Keith McCready
Kim Davenport
Roger Griffis
Greg Fix
Steve Davis
David Howard
Danny Barouty
Al Lapena
Dan Louie
James Walden
Mike Zuglan
Edgar Acaba
Dave Matlock
Edwin Montal
Alain Martal
Ike Runnels
Steve McAnnich
Scotty Townsend

1961-1970
Earl Strickland
Oliver Ortmann
Ralf Souquet
Thomas Engert
Fong Pang Chao
Johnny Archer
Francisco Bustamonte
Kunihiko Takahashi
Tommy Kennedy
Warren Kiamco
Antonio Lining
Troy Frank
Tom Storm
Kun Fang Lee
Rodney Morris
Luc Salvas
Chris Szuter
Charlie Bryant
Norbert Lang
Jimmy Wetch
C.J. Wiley
Tony Ellin
Reed Pierce
Ramil Gallego
Frankie Hernandez
Tony Robles
Pablo Matheu
Tony Drago
John Horsfall
Ray Schultz
Jimmy White
Dave Hemmah
Vincent Faquet
Rafael Hernandez
Chin Ching Kang
George Breedlove
Bobby Pickle


1971-1980
Shannon Daulton
Ching Shun Yang
Corey Deuel
John Schmidt
Thorsten Hohmann
Evgeny Stalev
Danny Hewitt
Shawn Putnum
Danny Harriman
Danny Basavich
Ronnie Alcano
Dennis Orcullo
Lee VanCorteza
Larry Nevel
Harold Stolka
Dennis Hatch
Eric Durbin
Mike Davis
Scott Frost
Alex Pagulayan
Michael Coltrain
Joey Korsiak
Marcus Chamet
Alex Lely
Min Wai Chin
Gerry Slivka
Masaki Tanaka
Jon Kucharo
Chris Orme
Mika Immonen
Jeremy Jones
George SanSouci
Fabio Petroni
Neils Feijen
Hui-Kai Hsia
Ryan McCreesh
Gabe Owen
Brandon Ashcraft
Teddy Garrahan
Johl Younger
Rico Dicks
Young Hwa Jeong
Radislaw Babicia
Andreas Roschikowski
Nick VanDen Berg
Steve Knight
Christian Reimering
Tang Hoa
Sandor Tot
Charlie Williams
Quinten Hann
Tyler Edey
Robb Saez
Roman Hybler
Corey Harper
Ricky Yang
Louis DeMarco
Pei-Wei Chang
Po-Chen Kuo
Marlon Manalo
Che-Wei Fu
Gandy Valle
Antonio Gabica
Hiroshi Takenaka
Satoshi Kawabata
Markus Juva
Joven Bustamonte
Daryl Peach


1981-1990
Shane VanBoening
Josh Brothers
Shawn Wilkie
Raj Hundal
Pink Yi Ko
Jeffrey DeLuna
Tony Chohan
Chia Ching Wu
Li He Wen
Jung Ling Chang
Naoyuki Oi

*Edited to spell "Dallas" West the right way. Thanks Smorg! :)

How did you forget me ?
 
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