Deleting Account?

enzo

Banned
what im about to say may get me banned (that is a play on a malcom x speach btw).

here is my ultimatum to the mods.

put all my posts/threads back, or delete me and all my posts. implication being, i feel ive always acted reasonably, especially in light of what ive seen others get away with. and if you dont put it all back, i want out as i dont want to be a member under the guidelines of a "ruling and respected elite".
 

Roadie

Banned
well, u say vicious, if somebody exhibits questionable behavior, wont the posts about him have to be vicious to a certain extent? its hard for truth to be vicious is my point. to me they werent vicious, but i think my main point here is look, i did something to perhaps wisen people up and call him out, and look how quick it was counteracted. do you see my point.... that in my belief, he has you right where he wants you, and i feel its my right to point that out. but as you say, people can make up their own mind.... well, no they cant, right.... they have been precluded from that now.

Apparently there is some friction between yourself and Mr. Lee that I have missed. My apologies for not knowing the full story between you both.

Wouldn't it be fair to say that if you can come to this conclusion about Mr. Lee then if there is merit then other people would see it clearly as well without your guidance?

Also, no one has me where they want me. I related my experience with Mr. Lee and do not find him to be conniving, cunning or false in any way. This is based on personal experience with him as well observing his interaction in these forums over the years.
 

enzo

Banned
If you would like to apply an "only posts for commercial gain" standard then you will find many members who pass that test. There are many members who post infrequently and when they do then it has to do with their business. Also some members post trivial comments in a thread but have a huge signature that takes up 20 lines.

Attacking another member though for this is an ad hominem attack. You can't know Mr. Lee's motivation for posting and the initial thread had nothing to do with pool and everything to do with attempting to discredit Mr. Lee's content.

And if Mr. Lee is able to cleverly post content that also bolsters his business of instruction what is the harm in that? If the content is obviously trolling in nature then people will mention it in the threads where it happens. But if the content has value and by the way informs the readers that Mr. Lee is an instructor then there is no harm in that.

Would you object to a plumber dispensing plumbing advice in a home improvement forum? Maybe that plumber gave out advice that was standard practice for plumbers but some clever DIY'er had figured out a better way. Would it be proper to attempt to then discredit the plumber because someone thought they had a better way to route a water pipe?

Lastly, Mr. Lee has participated in threads about pool cues, professional organizations, pool history, road stories, and more. In those threads he has not actively promoted his instructional business. There is always a discreet signature that anyone may click on if they wish.

Ask yourself what it is that you wanted to accomplish with the thread? Imagine that the thread had not been closed. You can see that most people who responded did not share your analysis. So the net result would have been the exact opposite of your goal. You wanted people to be more critical of Mr. Lee's posts so as to give them little to no value because of what you think is the promotional tie-in when Mr. Lee posts. But the thread you started actually stood as a testimonial to both the value of Mr. Lee's content as well as the strength of his character. Shouldn't that be enough to convince you that perhaps you have misjudged Mr. Lee and the members of this forum?

i'm done, i just want the mods in here, but no, its not enough. just ask some people what they thought of bernie madolf a few months before his arrest, he was like a social god.... but look at what happened, somebody FINALLY questioned him, and look what happened. mob rule mentality has obviously gotten us nowhere, but keep doing the same thing, and just HOPE it gets better my friend.
 

Roadie

Banned
what im about to say may get me banned (that is a play on a malcom x speach btw).

here is my ultimatum to the mods.

put all my posts/threads back, or delete me and all my posts. implication being, i feel ive always acted reasonably, especially in light of what ive seen others get away with. and if you dont put it all back, i want out as i dont want to be a member under the guidelines of a "ruling and respected elite".

Or what? The moderators do not have to delete anything at your request. All the content you posted belongs to the owner of the forum to do with what he wants to do.

You have no rights here. None of us do. All you can do is get yourself banned or make a private appeal to the forum owner to have them delete your account. An ultimatum has no chance on this forum or any other.
 

enzo

Banned
Apparently there is some friction between yourself and Mr. Lee that I have missed. My apologies for not knowing the full story between you both.

Wouldn't it be fair to say that if you can come to this conclusion about Mr. Lee then if there is merit then other people would see it clearly as well without your guidance?

Also, no one has me where they want me. I related my experience with Mr. Lee and do not find him to be conniving, cunning or false in any way. This is based on personal experience with him as well observing his interaction in these forums over the years.

well, i didnt even get to see the thread at all, but i got positive feedback on the thread. i wont divulge who, but there ya go. point is, other people HAVE come to the same conclusion, but the mods censor it.
 

Roadie

Banned
i'm done, i just want the mods in here, but no, its not enough. just ask some people what they thought of bernie madolf a few months before his arrest, he was like a social god.... but look at what happened, somebody FINALLY questioned him, and look what happened. mob rule mentality has obviously gotten us nowhere, but keep doing the same thing, and just HOPE it gets better my friend.

So you feel that Mr. Lee is conducting some sort of criminal activity? Comparing him to Bernie Madoff is quite a stretch.

Are you saying that Mr. Lee is perpetrating fraud?
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
well, i didnt even get to see the thread at all, but i got positive feedback on the thread. i wont divulge who, but there ya go. point is, other people HAVE come to the same conclusion, but the mods censor it.

What I saw was there were a number of positive comments made about Scott when the thread was pulled including my own. Scott calls them like he sees them and he believes in what he teaches.

I have seen snake oil saleman teachers - Scott's not one of them. The original thread should have run but I don't think you would have liked it - it would have ended up being a testimonial.

Chris
 
Last edited:

enzo

Banned
Or what? The moderators do not have to delete anything at your request. All the content you posted belongs to the owner of the forum to do with what he wants to do.

You have no rights here. None of us do. All you can do is get yourself banned or make a private appeal to the forum owner to have them delete your account. An ultimatum has no chance on this forum or any other.

isnt a public appeal for deletion good enough or even the same?

i want them to delete me, because that is what they do to opinions. listen, i am a college educated man with a masters degree.... i play very good pool, high short stop level (anybody can bet anything u want on there 2 points, esp the degree one, id love to make some quick cash).... so nobody wants my views and opinions, as youve all been doing so well on your own. i understand. the point being, sure some 12 year old hack can get on here and spew, but thats not what ive done for 6 years... ive presented intelligent opinions in a calm fashion. if u dont want me, fine.... my last girlfriend didnt either, and i THANKED my wholly stars for that. im sure this will be the same. although i will miss certain members here i will say that.
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
isnt a public appeal for deletion good enough or even the same?

i want them to delete me, because that is what they do to opinions. listen, i am a college educated man with a masters degree.... i play very good pool, high short stop level (anybody can bet anything u want on there 2 points, esp the degree one, id love to make some quick cash).... so nobody wants my views and opinions, as youve all been doing so well on your own. i understand. the point being, sure some 12 year old hack can get on here and spew, but thats not what ive done for 6 years... ive presented intelligent opinions in a calm fashion. if u dont want me, fine.... my last girlfriend didnt either, and i THANKED my wholly stars for that. im sure this will be the same. although i will miss certain members here i will say that.

You have an advanced degree. Just let me ask - is it possible that you're incorrect in your assumption?
 

enzo

Banned
What I saw was there were a number of positive comments made about Scott when the thread was pulled including my own. Scott calls them like he sees them and he believes in what he teaches.

I have seen snake oil saleman teachers - Scott's not one of them. The original thread should have run but I don't think you would have liked it - it would have ended up being a testimonial.

Chris

so my question is, if it was SO overwhelmingly positive, why not just leave the thread?
 

enzo

Banned
You have an advanced degree. Just let me ask - is it possible that you're incorrect in your assumption?


oh yes, it is VERY possible im incorrect. anybody in the world has to say that. dont u see the point, is it possible ypou are all incorrect. YES, it is! and thus opinions stated on a public board without censorship. that is the only way it can be.
 
Last edited:

Roadie

Banned
isnt a public appeal for deletion good enough or even the same?

i want them to delete me, because that is what they do to opinions. listen, i am a college educated man with a masters degree.... i play very good pool, high short stop level (anybody can bet anything u want on there 2 points, esp the degree one, id love to make some quick cash).... so nobody wants my views and opinions, as youve all been doing so well on your own. i understand. the point being, sure some 12 year old hack can get on here and spew, but thats not what ive done for 6 years... ive presented intelligent opinions in a calm fashion. if u dont want me, fine.... my last girlfriend didnt either, and i THANKED my wholly stars for that. im sure this will be the same. although i will miss certain members here i will say that.

:) On all these forums it is the same. The person on the defensive comes out with the credentials.

Forums don't respect college degrees any more than the people here respect pool ability and experience. The professionals get disrespected, professional instructors are disrespected. You compared Scott Lee to the biggest Ponzi scheme criminal in the world.

And yet you wish the members to give you credit for your college degree and your claimed ability at pool?

I really apologize in advance but Enzo one shouldn't stand on their education if one cannot write with some proper punctuation and proper usage of adages. The proper terminology is "thank my lucky stars" and not "thank my wholly(sic) stars". Obviously threads tend to really disintegrate when the grammar police show up. But when the offenses are egregious such as bragging about one's degree while lacking in punctuation something has to be said.

May I ask you why you think that your opinion on anything related to pool should carry more weight than Mr. Lee's opinion? Is it because he charges for some of his knowledge and you do not?
 

Roadie

Banned
so my question is, if it was SO overwhelmingly positive, why not just leave the thread?

We agree. The thread was positive. Mr. Lee was getting testimonials that would only serve to bolster his standing. But the tenor of the thread was in response to an unwarranted attack on another person that really has nothing to do with pool.

The potential for more acrimony was there and it really had no place on the forum.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
isnt a public appeal for deletion good enough or even the same?

i want them to delete me, because that is what they do to opinions. listen, i am a college educated man with a masters degree.... i play very good pool, high short stop level (anybody can bet anything u want on there 2 points, esp the degree one, id love to make some quick cash).... so nobody wants my views and opinions, as youve all been doing so well on your own. i understand. the point being, sure some 12 year old hack can get on here and spew, but thats not what ive done for 6 years... ive presented intelligent opinions in a calm fashion. if u dont want me, fine.... my last girlfriend didnt either, and i THANKED my wholly stars for that. im sure this will be the same. although i will miss certain members here i will say that.

Reminds me of a famous George C. Scott line (some great writing in that film) from The Hustler, "That's everyone's favorite pastime, feeling sorry for themselves."

And I've been guilty of it too, every time I wasn't picked for a team, or every time I was left out of a conversation. I can't tell you how many times I went home alone to be by myself and think things over. If I've learned anything over the years, it's just to pick myself up and get back out there and try again.

I don't think "everybody" is ignoring you or discounting your opinion either. They are treating you the same as they do everyone else who posts on AZ. If you write a post that strikes a responsive chord in people, they will let you know. And if the contrary is true you will hear about that too. None of us are really that important on here. NONE OF US, including me!

I know that every time I post on AZ, I'm in danger of receiving some negative backlash if someone(s) doesn't like what I have to say. It's happened to me many times on here and even though I don't like it, I accept that it comes with the territory if I'm going to voice my opinion. Especially one that may be controversial to a certain degree. You either get used to it or you take your ball and go home. ;)

P.S. I watched a special on Steve Wynn, the great Vegas impresario, who was known to have a viral temper. He frequently unloaded on employees who incurred his wraith for any reason. He finally learned to control his temper after meeting with the Dali Lama, and being advised that his temper tantrums were a result of his own perceived importance, AND THOSE FEELINGS WERE WORTHLESS! This little gnome of a man had put the great Steve Wynn in his place. Lesson learned!

Enzo, I have no Masters degree or even a Bachelors degree. What I do have is a lot of credentials in the pool world that I'm very proud of. Does it make me any better than anyone else on here? Not for a second! And I know it.
 
Last edited:

enzo

Banned
things get so convoluted, ill try to keep it simple.

lets take a look at a single incident. youll have to take my word for it, or go to the "should i feel bad" thread to see this in actual writing.

scott stated simply: if a player goes back to his chair after a foul, and does not inform the player of his foul, he is a cheater.

so, if you follow the rules of pool and simply go back to your chair after a foul-- you cheated. the reason this is so important is that there are many good players out there that do this. there is a rule, a good one, that says outgoing players cant touch the cb. so, a lot of good players that i know simply go back to their seats after a foul and let the rest take care of itself. to look down upon these players who are really just doing what they think is correct, that is wrong, and scott was propogating this false statement. its not good because there is bad blood during pool matches because of this very poor logic.

there is no black and white here, scott is 100% wrong (if you are defining right/wrong by the rules of pool). so, where does that leave us? everybody can think what they want, but he is wrong, and even if everybody told him he was dead wrong, he'd still say he was right.

if he did say he was wrong, id be very impressed... id even come full circle and perhaps change my opinion of him. but he wont, even though it can be shown 100% that he is wrong. he will prove his true character.... you watch. he will say he is RIGHT! this is why ill keep my opinion of him. so if you want to keep your same opinion of him too, that hes this great guy. fine, it really is fine by me. best.....
 

enzo

Banned
ps, since mods wont do it for me, i think i figured out a way to delete ALL my posts via my signature. more to come on this, haha.
 

enzo

Banned
We agree. The thread was positive. Mr. Lee was getting testimonials that would only serve to bolster his standing. But the tenor of the thread was in response to an unwarranted attack on another person that really has nothing to do with pool.

The potential for more acrimony was there and it really had no place on the forum.

well im glad we could agree :)

i didnt get to see the thread, but i may say that it was deleted because people were telling the truth about him as well (i did get agreeing pms and rep). but, and this is the WHOLE point, why dont i and others get to decide that for themselves, ESPECIALLY if it was all positive, as you say? i mean the POTENTIAL for acrimony is ALWAYS there, you must agree with that.
 
Last edited:

enzo

Banned
Reminds me of a famous George C. Scott line (some great writing in that film) from The Hustler, "That's everyone's favorite pastime, feeling sorry for themselves."

And I've been guilty of it too, every time I wasn't picked for a team, or every time I was left out of a conversation. I can't tell you how many times I went home alone to be by myself and think things over. If I've learned anything over the years, it's just to pick myself up and get back out there and try again.

I don't think "everybody" is ignoring you or discounting your opinion either. They are treating you the same as they do everyone else who posts on AZ. If you write a post that strikes a responsive chord in people, they will let you know. And if the contrary is true you will hear about that too. None of us are really that important on here. NONE OF US, including me!

I know that every time I post on AZ, I'm in danger of receiving some negative backlash if someone(s) doesn't like what I have to say. It's happened to me many times on here and even though I don't like it, I accept that it comes with the territory if I'm going to voice my opinion. Especially one that may be controversial to a certain degree. You either get used to it or you take your ball and go home. ;)

P.S. I watched a special on Steve Wynn, the great Vegas impresario, who was known to have a viral temper. He frequently unloaded on employees who incurred his wraith for any reason. He finally learned to control his temper after meeting with the Dali Lama, and being advised that his temper tantrums were a result of his own perceived importance, AND THOSE FEELINGS WERE WORTHLESS! This little gnome of a man had put the great Steve Wynn in his place. Lesson learned!

Enzo, I have no Masters degree or even a Bachelors degree. What I do have is a lot of credentials in the pool world that I'm very proud of. Does it make me any better than anyone else on here? Not for a second! And I know it.

another bandwagon jumper. this forum is full of them. you probably dont even know the issue(s) here. i dont claim to be better either jay, just claim that PERHAPS a pool community thinking with half an ounce of wisdom would want to keep somebody like me. i guess not... and im cool with it. thanks for taking the time to very altruistically pat yourself on the back again just like scott does all the time.
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
This is your argument?

Tell me what was the CONTEXT that Scott made this statement in.

I remember a match a few years ago against two pros, the one at the table committed a foul, because of his body postion, the opponent did not see the foul. Continued shooting, and won the game.

What say you Enzo did he cheat?


things get so convoluted, ill try to keep it simple.

lets take a look at a single incident. youll have to take my word for it, or go to the "should i feel bad" thread to see this in actual writing.

scott stated simply: if a player goes back to his chair after a foul, and does not inform the player of his foul, he is a cheater.

so, if you follow the rules of pool and simply go back to your chair after a foul-- you cheated. the reason this is so important is that there are many good players out there that do this. there is a rule, a good one, that says outgoing players cant touch the cb. so, a lot of good players that i know simply go back to their seats after a foul and let the rest take care of itself. to look down upon these players who are really just doing what they think is correct, that is wrong, and scott was propogating this false statement. its not good because there is bad blood during pool matches because of this very poor logic.

there is no black and white here, scott is 100% wrong (if you are defining right/wrong by the rules of pool). so, where does that leave us? everybody can think what they want, but he is wrong, and even if everybody told him he was dead wrong, he'd still say he was right.

if he did say he was wrong, id be very impressed... id even come full circle and perhaps change my opinion of him. but he wont, even though it can be shown 100% that he is wrong. he will prove his true character.... you watch. he will say he is RIGHT! this is why ill keep my opinion of him. so if you want to keep your same opinion of him too, that hes this great guy. fine, it really is fine by me. best.....
 

Roadie

Banned
well im glad we could agree :)

i didnt get to see the thread, but i may say that it was deleted because people were telling the truth about him as well (i did get agreeing pms and rep). but, and this is the WHOLE point, why dont i and others get to decide that for themselves, ESPECIALLY if it was all positive, as you say? i mean the POTENTIAL for acrimony is ALWAYS there, you must agree with that.

Which side is the truth? The side that agrees with your or the side that dissents?

The point is that a thread discussing the motivation and habits of a poster is an attack and is against the rules. And yes I agree that there are plenty of examples of such threads that were allowed to stay.

But the adage of two wrongs not making a right applies. Just because the moderators are inconsistent in how they apply the rules does not mean that your thread was correct or even truthful. Your opinion about Mr. Lee's motivations and analysis of his content's validity is not the truth. It is your opinion based on your perspective.

It is a fair certainty that the thread was not removed to protect Mr. Lee from anyone's negative opinions. The thread was surely removed because it was a personal attack against another member and enough members voted it off the forum by complaining using the report thread function. You see it's possible for the members to actually vote and show their dissatisfaction with a thread. And since moderators don't like to be annoyed the more that a thread is reported the more likely that it will be removed.

As for rep and pms, no matter what the issue is someone will agree with you. A favorite trick among forum members is to use the shield of private messages and rep to exclaim that their point is valid. Aha, I am right, the PMs and Reps prove it. We are really a petty species aren't we, that we take such measure or ourselves as to claim victory when a few random strangers agree with our position. How will future sociologists look back on this time? Will we seem as primitive in thought as the cavemen seem to us?

The cold reality is that you are playing in someone else's house. They can change the rules all they want to. If you spent time helping them to redecorate and spruce up the place you don't get to undo that work if you have a disagreement. You just get to leave. So you and everyone else who spends so much time posting to these message boards should keep in mind that you are giving away your thoughts for free. And those thoughts are now the property of the message board owner to do with as they see fit. This is the case everywhere on the net where you do not have administration rights. So when you post your thoughts to the ether they no longer belong to you.

Maybe the answer instead is to simply leave and use your productivity elsewhere in a way that you retain ownership over your production.
 
Top