SVB cheating? Shaw/SVB Derby 9 Ball
- Thread starter sid98
- Start date
AtLarge, can you confirm how many years the most recent US Open rules were enforced?
I hear what you are saying, easy, but I think Jayson would argue he simply wants a fair rack. Not saying one way or the other that Shane can't win with those rules. I think that is another point to make here. All of these guys are obviously capable of winning any tournament at any given time. When stakes are high they look for an edge (sometimes rightfully so, sometimes maybe not) and this has certainly been an edge *shrug*
Came here for the first time in awhile just to read on this. Knew there would be a drama thread, lol
People manipulate the rack on rack your own. Cry about it if you want, but dont throw a hissy fit mid match. He wasn't *****ing when he made the wing ball early on, was he?
People are gonna get salty. Its competition. Much, much respect for Shane for how he handled it. Laugh at the guy who's heated and walk away. He won. Loser is crying. Move on.
People manipulate the rack on rack your own. Cry about it if you want, but dont throw a hissy fit mid match. He wasn't *****ing when he made the wing ball early on, was he?
People are gonna get salty. Its competition. Much, much respect for Shane for how he handled it. Laugh at the guy who's heated and walk away. He won. Loser is crying. Move on.
I know, just sounded funny to me.
Yeah he's reaching, Archer broke from there for years and dominated. Back when the camel tour was around you had to break from the box and nobody complained or had problems making balls.
I wouldn't eat anything that's been in the fridge since 1994 and your logic has a similar expiration date.
What was once a guarded secret is now known by many.
Yes, having a ref at every table at DCC would be logistically difficult. My point is that is the best way to avoid these problems. And it does not have to be a ref, just any tournament official—neutral party and the players would have to agree to allow this person to do the racking. Doesn’t seem impossible to me.
Bottom line: the players (either one) should not be involved in the racking. Letting the players set up the rack is like letting the receiving team place the football for the kick-off!
Bottom line: the players (either one) should not be involved in the racking. Letting the players set up the rack is like letting the receiving team place the football for the kick-off!
At least one thing has changed each of the last 5 years. Based on the "Conditions" I posted each year in my stats threads, here are the break requirements in recent years for the streamed matches at the US Open 9-Ball Championship.
2011:
- Delta-13 rack
- breaker racks for himself with the 1-ball on the foot spot and the 2-ball at the back of the rack
- break from the box (2 diamonds wide)
- the break is illegal (and non-breaker has an option to shoot) unless at least 3 balls pass the side pockets or are pocketed
- a 9-ball made on the break spots up if it went in either of the two foot-rail pockets
2012 -- same as 2011
2013 changes (otherwise same as 2012):
- Diamond wooden rack instead of Delta-13
- break box a bit narrower than 2-diamonds wide
2014 change (otherwise same as 2013)
- 9-ball racked on the foot spot instead of the 1-ball
2015 changes (otherwise same as 2014):
- Accu-Rack racking template instead of Diamond wooden rack
- break box approx. 9" to each side of the long string (not sure if this was slightly narrower than in 2013 and 2014)
[I'm not sure whether a 9-ball pocketed on the break in a foot-rail pocket counted (that did not occur in the streamed matches)]
2016 changes (otherwise same as 2015):
- a 9-ball on the break counted regardless of pocket
- in the illegal break rule, the 3 balls had to pass the head string rather than mid-table
2017 changes (otherwise same as 2016):
- referee racked rather than breaker
- in the illegal break rule, the 3 balls had to just touch the plane of the head string rather than cross the head string.
So that took us to this for 2017:
- Accu-Rack racking template;
- winner breaks from the box -- 9" to each side of the long string;
- referee racks with the 9-ball on the foot spot and the 2-ball at the back of the rack;
- the break is illegal (and non-breaker has an option to shoot) unless at least 3 balls touch the plane of the head string or are pocketed;
- all slop counts.
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And this is one event. Every other event has their own variance and every year it changes, from the racking rules, to who can rack, to how they rack to the number of games per set to color of chalk, etc... 3 balls past some line, where to break from, where to rack, how hard to hit the break, loser break, winner break, alternate break, when you can take a break, who will check the rack, who can't check the rack...
And we complain about bar bangers making up rules LOL
And we complain about bar bangers making up rules LOL
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Your comments reminded me of this thread from 2016: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=434435
#1 You say we can't assume Shaw gave him a frozen rack.
#3 You say Shane makes the wing ball because he does the break a person would do for a well frozen rack.
So which is it?
Your logic once again is flawed by one fact, 1994 or not it was referee racked. So there was some guarded secret by a whole tour and apparently the refs were in on it? The best are the best for a reason, because they practice the little things others don't. Therefore they can do the things others can't. Do people know how to manipulate the rack? Of course they do but if they all know it (which they do) then it's even. The real crisis here is rack for your opponent is dead because of all the whining. As long as the first 3 are frozen shut up and break the balls.
The split between the second row balls makes this rack a no go. Joe Tucker stated that under "More bad 9 ball rack info" section.
If I was breaking this rack, I would force a re-rack.
I watched Shaw practice the soft break between matches all day at DCC. He thought he had the rack down.
I agree. This post is spot on! Dennis took for-freakin-ever to rack his own.
I disagree with your first point - the title is a reaction to Shaw calling out SVB for cheating. Whether he is cheating or not is certainly up for discussion but I actually see more cheap shots at Shaw on this thread. There are also a fair few cheap posts of the "stfu nobody has any right to question the validity or fairness of SVB's (or any other pro's) racking" variety.
I agree 100% with your final point about referee racking - events like these need to have referees if big pool tournaments are going to be elevated to the commercial status of those that do (e.g. Matchroom tournaments). A little investment in referees would go a long way to moving forward in this respect. It would also promote a culture within the sport of rack the head ball on the spot and rack the other 8,9 or 14 balls as tight as can you can against it and get on with the game. The pro game can set an example here but at the moment it is setting a bad example.
I meant no disrespect at all for the title of this thread. I just happened to watch that match and saw the exchange at the end and was curious everyone's thoughts.
Reread what I said. Carefully. They are completely independent statements. Whether or not we can assume something logically is different than whether or not that thing actually happened. For example if I flip a coin and don't yet see the result, I cannot logically assume it is heads or tails. That has no bearing on whether it's head or tails.
FYI, when you alter what I've said, it doesn't mean the same thing any more. I said "we cannot assume Shaw gave him a tight rack *from what you've said*".
KMRUNOUT
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