C.F. Shaft Fabrication...

EL Picos said:

How are made Revo shafts, layers roll wrapped?

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Don’t know exactly, don’t care. https://www.predatorcues.com/technology/revo-technology/ That site will be able to answer some questions easier.

Ssonerai said:

For CF how do you adjust the joint diameter for your preferred size?

FWIW, I like 1.210 - 1.220 range for butt diameter, 12.7-ish tip, but use a large joint, 0.865". Also very little taper 3/4" either side of joint.
smt

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Easiest way to answer this is to tell you to look at the differences between Revo shafts. They had a target in mind, and made a shaft to meet that target. Other companies just took their standard tapers and made a range of diameters. There is no right or wrong way to choose, but you’ll find out the carbon shafts are a completely different animal.

Hitsemhard

I'm might be wrong according to you, but the few hundred people that bought my carbon fiber shafts seem to like them.

desi2960 said:

I'm might be wrong according to you, but the few hundred people that bought my carbon fiber shafts seem to like them.

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That’s not the point at all. Comparatively speaking, you’re carbon shafts are stone age carbon tech.

Hitsemhard

That's ur opinion.

How many carbon fiber shafts have you made?

You are comparing the shafts I made to other peoples shafts, what you dont understand is, when I started I was not trying to make a predator.
I was trying to make a carbon fiber shaft that I liked, and that is exactly what I did.
It was fun for about a year now I'm back to doing other things, experimenting with bamboo and poplar.
I build what I like, and build my way.

What I don't understand is now predator is offering a custom revo for about 500 but if you want a 30 inch it's about 600 another 100 just for that extra inch , is it really that much for that extra inch of material?

desi2960 said:

That's ur opinion.

How many carbon fiber shafts have you made?

You are comparing the shafts I made to other peoples shafts, what you dont understand is, when I started I was not trying to make a predator.
I was trying to make a carbon fiber shaft that I liked, and that is exactly what I did.
It was fun for about a year now I'm back to doing other things, experimenting with bamboo and poplar.
I build what I like, and build my way.

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That’s all fine and dandy. But if it still hasn’t occurred to you, you’re ideal that these things aren’t designed to flex is flawed. Yours may not because you’ve approached it from the Stone Age. Your idea was tried multiple times since the 80’s. It’s never stuck around for a few reasons.

Horsemhard

Hits 'em Hard said:

That’s all fine and dandy. But if it still hasn’t occurred to you, you’re ideal that these things aren’t designed to flex is flawed. Yours may not because you’ve approached it from the Stone Age. Your idea was tried multiple times since the 80’s. It’s never stuck around for a few reasons.

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How many have you made?
How many cues have you made?

EL Picos said:

How are made Revo shafts, layers roll wrapped?

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Revo's are filament-wound. Carbon-fiber thread, known as TOW, is spun onto a mandrel. Stiffness is controlled by using different modulus fibers at different angles known as bias. Another method is called flag-wrapped and its just like it sounds: banner shaped sheets of material known as pre-peg is wrapped on a mandrel. Both these methods are used in golf shaft manuf. When cf golf shafts first came out they used too much resin in the matrix and they broke a lot. Current manuf. uses far less resin and more cf. Makes for a much better shaft. Some info on current SOTA in CF: https://fujikuragolf.com/our-technology Some of this could end up in pool shafts. Who knows.

Hits em hard

Have you ever made any cf shafts ?
Have you ever made any cues ?

desi2960 said:

Have you ever made any cf shafts ?
Have you ever made any cues ?

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Did you bother to research golf club shaft tech over the last 30 years before you went Stone Age? Did you bother to understand why your method was trashed from get go? You are not a materials scientist(neither am I), but I seem to have a much firmer grasp on the knowledge at hand. I started golfing right when all these new ‘graphite’ shafts were becoming the rage. I’ve seen and understand the evolutionary changes made in golf shafts. Not one company is going backwards like you did in making your carbon fiber shaft. I questioned why carbon shafts for cues never followed the development like golf did. I was always told that the carbon shafts were dead/hollow, and didn’t play as well.

Now here we are some 30 years later, and cue shafts are finally getting the same treatment as golf shafts. Companies aren’t just dismissing this as a fad, they’re asking themselves “how can we make this better” for once. Just like golf did. Varying layers, directions, orientations of start/stop for the tow. Vacuuming molds to decrease resin content. I could go on and on. Your preferred taper may hit like dog balls in one construction, but vary the layers/thickness, and it could be the bees knees!

To bluntly answer your question, no I haven’t. But I don’t need to. We’re talking about carbon fiber/filament shafts. Something you seriously know nothing about. You roll wind your carbon fiber just like people did in the Stone Age of carbon fiber. Not one company worth a shit does what you did/do. Not Bugatti, not golf shaft manufacturers, not carbon drive shaft makers. So where are you getting this idea that carbon fiber isn’t designed to flex? Go back to your cave.

Hits em hard

You do know this section is called , ask a cuemaker,
It's not, i read something on the internet, so I'm an expert.

I will be the first to admit, I do not know it all.

BUT I have been shooting pool for 70 years. I have been building cues for 25 plus years, I have made almost 600 cues and appx 400 carbon fiber shafts.

I do not copy or try to make something like others do, build what I like.

Some people are better at repeating information they have read, some are better at sharing their experiences they have learned being in a shop for 25 years.

Hits em hard

I'm old, so I forgot to add

You keep referring to golf shafts.

You do understand, in golf you strike the ball with a side hit, where in pool you strike the ball with a hit.on the end.

2 different applications 2 different properties c.f.

I learned that in my shop, I did not read it online.

desi2960 said:

I'm old, so I forgot to add

You keep referring to golf shafts.

You do understand, in golf you strike the ball with a side hit, where in pool you strike the ball with a hit.on the end.

2 different applications 2 different properties c.f.

I learned that in my shop, I did not read it online.

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Manuf. process is the same. A golf shaft has to withstand WAAAY more stress than a pool shaft ever will. The flexing and twisting forces that a golf shaft has to put up with are tremendous. A pool shaft is basically getting tapped along the long axis. Doesn't require anywhere near the hi-modulus fibers that a golf shaft does. I talked to an engineer at Aldila about this and he said there is absolutely no reason a pool shaft should cost what they do other than just straight up greed.

garczar said:

Manuf. process is the same. A golf shaft has to withstand WAAAY more stress than a pool shaft ever will. The flexing and twisting forces that a golf shaft has to put up with are tremendous. A pool shaft is basically getting tapped along the long axis. Doesn't require anywhere near the hi-modulus fibers that a golf shaft does. I talked to an engineer at Aldila about this and he said there is absolutely no reason a pool shaft should cost what they do other than just straight up greed.

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Have you really done the math on that? or do you say that, just because you personally feel a CF shaft is too expensive.
This thread is about CF shafts and how they are made, I happen to have made quite a few and know a bit about what goes into a shaft in terms of time, materials, setup, tools needed etc. and let me tell you the startup cost is fairly high if you want it done right.
i don`t know what you think is a reasonable hourly wage, but I factor in time spent assembling, machining, research and I`m not interested in working for $10/hour

garczar said:

Manuf. process is the same. A golf shaft has to withstand WAAAY more stress than a pool shaft ever will. The flexing and twisting forces that a golf shaft has to put up with are tremendous. A pool shaft is basically getting tapped along the long axis. Doesn't require anywhere near the hi-modulus fibers that a golf shaft does. I talked to an engineer at Aldila about this and he said there is absolutely no reason a pool shaft should cost what they do other than just straight up greed.

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Do golf shafts/clubs have taper too ?

I'm seeing way too many problems with cf pool shafts.
Some have pit holes. Some easily mark or tear when getting worked on.
Seen some with lots of scratches by the tip.
I wax the ferrule area when trimming tips on them b/c they scratch easily with the blade.
Their balance can be funny. The added weight has to be near the middle.
If it's by the joint area only, the balance is just horrible.