I've decided I 'need' a small lathe for just tinkering. I have a Deluxe and it works fine for my cue hobby, but I want a small metal lathe. I don't want to get a big one - - yet. The price of a 60-year old Craftsman 109 and a new HF mini lathe are about the same. Which would you go for? One advantage to the old lathe is no electronics to go south, but that is traded for belt changing.
Mini Lathe or Old Craftsman 109
- Thread starter Alan
- Start date
Depends the Craftsman is most likely better if you have no need for a spindle bore. Those lathes are built to last. If I am correct it has no spindle bore. If tou have a need for a spindle bore get a different lathe or a cheap import. Just my 2 cents
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lathe
blud
Most of the older craftsman's were made by Atlas, they are great little machines, the spindle hole should be 11/16" up to 3/4", depending which model it is. You can make butt plates, rings, and replace ferrules with the small machine. I would prefer the craftsman, over the chinna made machinery...Alan said:
blud
Spindle Bore
Check on the spindle bore size. I'm not sure the 6 inch Atlas or Dunlap are big enough to fit a shaft through. The 101 models had 17/32" bores according to http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/page3.html. http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page4.html shows the 109's as not having a bore, which is news to me. I thought they did. The 10 and 12 inch Atlas lathes are fine, they're a little over 3/4 of an inch. Some imports are 20 mm and there are a few less than that so keep an eye on that spec before purchasing.
Check on the spindle bore size. I'm not sure the 6 inch Atlas or Dunlap are big enough to fit a shaft through. The 101 models had 17/32" bores according to http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/page3.html. http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page4.html shows the 109's as not having a bore, which is news to me. I thought they did. The 10 and 12 inch Atlas lathes are fine, they're a little over 3/4 of an inch. Some imports are 20 mm and there are a few less than that so keep an eye on that spec before purchasing.
I would sure verify if it does indeed have or have a useable size spindle bore on which ever you choose. Even for metal work a spindle bore is useful depending on legth of stock being turned ect.
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I have a 6" Atlas/Craftsman in my shop and I bored out the spindle to get rid of the #1 MT so I an run over 9/16" rod through it now. If the chuck is accurate it is a better made machine than the mini-lathes. I use mine all the time for small metal work.
I would do a lot of research into the 109 in general and on the specific unit for sale before buying. They are reputed to have weak spindles that are prone to bending. Search through google-groups as this topic has been well covered in rec.crafts.metalworking over the years. There are also some dedicated discussion groups out there (yahoo perhaps ?).
I've never owned one, just read the discussions over the years, but that is enough for me to strongly suggest you do the research.
Dave
I've never owned one, just read the discussions over the years, but that is enough for me to strongly suggest you do the research.
Dave
Do Not Buy A 109 Lathe!!!!!!!!!!!
Since I am a vintage tool dealer I will put my 2 cents in here.
The 109 was the poor mans lathe of that era. There known for spindle warp and the planetary gear system breaking. Also, the metal casted parts are thin and tend to crack. I bought a whole lathe for 35.00 last month (I parted it out) and the casted bango was cracked right in half. There made by AA Tool co. and sold under the Craftsman badge (MODEL 109). There not Atlas made and a current taiwon lathe IMO is better.
However, if you can afford it go for the Craftsman 101 lathe or Atlas 618 lathe. The Craftsman 101 is made by Atlas and is just about identical to the Atlas 618. BUT early Craftsman models had cheaper bearings in the headstock. If your spending good money on a 101 make sure it has the orange timken bearing sticker on the headstock. The other one is still ok though if your getting a good deal on it. This lathe is very heavy for its size and can take a beating if it has to. Also, parts and accessories are not difficult to find on the bay. Plus, Atlas still stocks some parts for this unit.
Some quick specs on the 101/618 Lathe:
6" Swing
3 1/2" Swing over Bed
18" Between Centers
Sixteen Speeds: 54,82,122,140,187,287,317,365,481,550,820,940,1250,1925,2125,3225
Spindle 1" x 10 or older models 1" x 8
Spindle MT2
Hole Threw Spindle 17/32"
Cross Feed Travel 4 3/4"
Tool Post Slide Travel 1 3/4"
Tailstock MT1 (Can be offset for tapering)
Lastly here is a pic of my Craftsman 101 lathe so you know what to look for. Notice the orange sticker on the headstock.
Hope all this helps.....
Since I am a vintage tool dealer I will put my 2 cents in here.
The 109 was the poor mans lathe of that era. There known for spindle warp and the planetary gear system breaking. Also, the metal casted parts are thin and tend to crack. I bought a whole lathe for 35.00 last month (I parted it out) and the casted bango was cracked right in half. There made by AA Tool co. and sold under the Craftsman badge (MODEL 109). There not Atlas made and a current taiwon lathe IMO is better.
However, if you can afford it go for the Craftsman 101 lathe or Atlas 618 lathe. The Craftsman 101 is made by Atlas and is just about identical to the Atlas 618. BUT early Craftsman models had cheaper bearings in the headstock. If your spending good money on a 101 make sure it has the orange timken bearing sticker on the headstock. The other one is still ok though if your getting a good deal on it. This lathe is very heavy for its size and can take a beating if it has to. Also, parts and accessories are not difficult to find on the bay. Plus, Atlas still stocks some parts for this unit.
Some quick specs on the 101/618 Lathe:
6" Swing
3 1/2" Swing over Bed
18" Between Centers
Sixteen Speeds: 54,82,122,140,187,287,317,365,481,550,820,940,1250,1925,2125,3225
Spindle 1" x 10 or older models 1" x 8
Spindle MT2
Hole Threw Spindle 17/32"
Cross Feed Travel 4 3/4"
Tool Post Slide Travel 1 3/4"
Tailstock MT1 (Can be offset for tapering)
Lastly here is a pic of my Craftsman 101 lathe so you know what to look for. Notice the orange sticker on the headstock.
Hope all this helps.....
Alan said:
Itsjustjay has the right title on his reply, imo.
Be patient and wait for a reasonable used lathe to come along. It took 2 years of looking before I bought my old beast, but where I live very few used machine tools come up for sale.
Here is a site that I've posted before, it is an internet gem from a used machinery dealer who seemed to really care and was willing to help us amateurs :
http://www.mermac.com/advicenew.html
Dave
blud said:
The 12 in and - IIRC 10 in Atlas lathes had aprox 3/4 in spindle bore.
None of the 6 in lathes had a spindle bore large enough to
accomidate a shaft.
FWIW - that doesn't mean there aren't many worthwhile
things you can do on one. Using a steady rest opens up
many possibilities.
Dale
Why Atlas or Import?
South Bends are out there as well.
I bought a nice 9x28 for $400 a few years ago when the economy was better. It was only used at home so not worn much at all. It also has a reversing motor, quick change gear selectors, a nice chuck, and an aluminum bench top for it over an inch thick. I see several a year come up for sale in the Cleveland OH area.
I had an old Craftsman once, not bad for playing, but the SB can do way more serious work with its power feeds on both axis. The bore is adequate for me to do ferrules and tips, as well as inserts in the other end of the shaft. There are more choices as well like JET, etc. Best wishes.
South Bends are out there as well.
I bought a nice 9x28 for $400 a few years ago when the economy was better. It was only used at home so not worn much at all. It also has a reversing motor, quick change gear selectors, a nice chuck, and an aluminum bench top for it over an inch thick. I see several a year come up for sale in the Cleveland OH area.
I had an old Craftsman once, not bad for playing, but the SB can do way more serious work with its power feeds on both axis. The bore is adequate for me to do ferrules and tips, as well as inserts in the other end of the shaft. There are more choices as well like JET, etc. Best wishes.
<<<<Why Atlas or Import?>>>>
Because the original poster was looking for a small (mini) lathe to tinker with. Not to actually use on cues. The smallest common South Bend would be a 9" which is not mini lathe size.
However if the guy was interested in going bigger I would definitely recommend a South Bend lathe as you suggested. Its a quality product?.period!
Because the original poster was looking for a small (mini) lathe to tinker with. Not to actually use on cues. The smallest common South Bend would be a 9" which is not mini lathe size.
However if the guy was interested in going bigger I would definitely recommend a South Bend lathe as you suggested. Its a quality product?.period!
pdcue said:
South Bends are jam up lathes to the best of My knowledge, I've talked to a few local guys that were old school machinists, and that was their lathe of choice. One Guy I always talk to when I see Him, hangs out in a small local pub. I have to watch starting up a conversation with Him if I'm in a hurry, because I could listen to him talk for hours about that stuff. He had thought about getting into cuework when he retired, so loved to talk to me about that side also. Anyway He loves those old South Bends. He told me story about a place he worked that had modern cnc equipment. He had found an old south bend lathe in the corner, just gathering dust in the place. Everyone at the place told him It was junk. He was proud of the fact that he took the time to tune the lathe in, and was getting some pretty tight work out of It. it could have been the guy working the equipment, I don't know for sure, but He said they were having a hard time with some job they had, and for some reason weren't getting the specs they wanted from the newer equipment, and that he turned It out just playing around on that lathe with a few mods, and the specs were on the money. He said other people at His work place couldn't believe he did that tight of a job on that old lathe that never got used.
To the poster, I'm not sure which lathe I would recomend. Both probably have advantages and disavantages, some of what has been mentioned. I have alittle import I use like You are wanting to. Mine runs true enough for anything I need, and I turn all different materials on It, even SS. I have also had no problems with My controller, and I've had mine about 7 years now. I believe Dick Neighbors mentioned He still has the original controller on His, and He's had It alot longer then I've had mine. Now with that said, some of the imports have had problems with the boards. I'm not sure how much of that is the board It'self (which sometimes is the case), and/or how much of It could possibly be caused By the operator. I've never reversed mine while running or any of those careless type mistakes, and don't know what would've happened if I had. I also don't leave Mine plugged in all the time. That may could heat the board up.
I don't really have any experience with the old craftsman lathes. I have an old mini wood lathe that looks like an atlas or dunlop, but It has sleeved bushing type bearings, and they need replaced. I sure wouldn't get anything with those type bearings if they made any metal lathes with them By chance. The one with the sticker that someone mentioned looks like the better ones to Me. I saw one near My location that was on the local Craig's list, and It had that sticker on the headstock. I was thinking at the time that they were probably better when equiped with those bearings. They have been making quality bearings for a long time. They've made bearings for car & truck parts, machine parts, you name It, they've probably made the bearings for It.
Also Atleast some kind of through hole in the spindle is what I would want. There are times when you need It, even when turning small stock. Even though I don't use My little import for shafts, one would fit In It, but I do sometimes need It for other stuff besides that. It's just nice to have IMO.
Greg