ABIA - Who owes you money

So when did the ABIA become a lawfirm in fifty states over night... Nice to see you want to help But im sure the ones that money is owed to dont have a license, insurance or legit registered company. It all needs to be looked at on 1 on 1 to see what the problem is, I have a great success rate on money owed to me check clears you get 6th rail installed.

Craig

I install for 5 online companies. Before I complain I would like to say that Billiard X has been outstanding with payment. They pay me within 7-14 days no matter the amount. Thomas Aaron on the other hand stiffed me for money. They were late VERY LATE on every invoice no matter the amount. I ultimately quit installing for this company. It gets old having to make repeat calls that are never returned. Then you get a call with a promise of payment, and "by the way can you install another one for us"? They consistently owe me money and they keep you installing and trickle your money to you. I am currently am having a similar experience with American Heritage. I am owed money that is overdue according to the payment agreement I made with them. I was owed 5,060 at one point and had to keep installing tables I had possession of in hopes i will be paid. I was paid $4200 6 weeks late. I had to borrow $2000 to keep paying my help. I also had 3 over drafts on my checking. I install over 500 tables a year. I have tremendous costs for labor, fuel, and materials. I pay all these costs when they are owed. Why I cannot get paid by a company who sold a table, received payment in full, and owes me for weeks on end, It blows my mind. I am now getting payments trickled to me. I am still owed over 2,000 and got a check on Friday for $350. This must change! In many states these practices are illegal. Installers/mechanics should be able to receive a deposit for multiple table orders. Positive cash flow is a must for any successful business.
If you complain to these companies the threaten to get another company to install or the actually get another installer. Now they are keeping him fat and happy, remember that "all new brooms sweep well". They will keep the new guy up to date, with the money they owe you.

How many of you have a similar experience?
How many of you have been stiffed for money by a pool table company?
Are any of these companies late paying the money you are owed.
Most states have usery laws. You can tack interest onto any late payment. The problem with that? These companies will find someone else. Remember they do not care who installs or how they install. They care that the pool table is installed and passes the customers uneducated uninformed inspection. Once that ROI { receipt of install} is signed they have fulfilled any obligation to the customer. The installer, however, is owed a check for the install. Do any of you have a written contract guaranteeing payment? Would you like one? What is your recourse if you are not paid. What if the mechanics demanded payment as a group.
I recently refused to install tables I physically possessed. It didn't get me far. Imagine if we all refused to install untill payments were current? These companies would certainly care. One installer holding back 2 tables? Big deal! 100 installers holding back 2 tables? They would overnight your money. Could pool table companies stiff you for money and locate another mechanic in your area if we all talked and became organized. What would happen if you were aware of the other mechanics pay status or should I say lack of payment. Would you take up installing for this company knowing they slow pay or don't pay? Anyone thoughts?

n10spool said:

So when did the ABIA become a lawfirm in fifty states over night... Nice to see you want to help But im sure the ones that money is owed to dont have a license, insurance or legit registered company. It all needs to be looked at on 1 on 1 to see what the problem is, I have a great success rate on money owed to me check clears you get 6th rail installed.

Craig

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Interesting! I have a license, Insurance and I am registered and legitimate. I am happy to hear that you get paid. I am owed money all of the time as are many other members of this forum.

I know of many table mechanic's that if they knew another installer is owed money...they wouldn't go behind their back and install the tables

realkingcobra said:

I know of many table mechanic's that if they knew another installer is owed money...they wouldn't go behind their back and install the tables

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Glen, I know of tons more that would

Bob, it's a good thing we are only talking about money owed, otherwise Billiardex would be the front runner for a bevy of other topics. Thomas Aaron has owed me money for 6 months, without a peep from them. Luckily, it is only $350 so I'm not too worried about, but I would still like to get it. I barely do internet company installs anymore anyway, since they want you to install there tables the moment they get to you. They don't care they you have other jobs scheduled, or that you even have a life.

ChrisShanklin said:

Glen, I know of tons more that would

Bob, it's a good thing we are only talking about money owed, otherwise Billiardex would be the front runner for a bevy of other topics. Thomas Aaron has owed me money for 6 months, without a peep from them. Luckily, it is only $350 so I'm not too worried about, but I would still like to get it. I barely do internet company installs anymore anyway, since they want you to install there tables the moment they get to you. They don't care they you have other jobs scheduled, or that you even have a life.

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Y'all need to stop that shit and come to understand something. If you don't get paid...then it's like you didn't do the job...and if you didn't do the job...you wouldn't be owed money! And if you don't do the job...the table seller don't get paid either...THEY are NOT in charge...YOU are...the moment you start letting them know....no pay, no play...PERIOD! I don't care if a hack goes ahead and installs the tables anyway...let them deal with the CALL BACKS!...then at least you can say...."you should have paid me...and you wouldn't have had that call back....how much did it cost you"? But, as long as you keep working for "I owe you" payments...NOTHING is going to change....stop being "installer whores" working for scraps!...Stand up for yourself...and everyone else like you, that's how you bring change to this industry...others will follow suit, but someone always has to stand up first...to show the way to others!!!

Glen, the "Realkingcobra"

PS. I've said it before, I'll say it again...NOTHING in this industry moves....not cloth, tables, installs, or repairs.....without a table mechanic's hands in there somewhere!!! The sooner you understand that...the sooner these problems will stop from happening!!!

I'll tell you something else...you don't need to wait for the formation of some kind of group of table mechanics to correct this problem...what you DO need to do however....is take them to small claims court...and make an example out of them....THEN pass on that informaion to ALL other mechanics as to the process of doing that....and THAT right there will send the message you want said...to all online sellers...calling on your support....but failing to pay...or pay on time!! It's that kind of action right there that says...we're not putting up with your BS....we did our job, and have a right to get paid!

"Throwing your weight around" to ensure that your members get paid on time is something you can do (in theory) once you have clout, and scads of reputable members. As of right now, I highly doubt any company is gonna "run scared" from the ABIA.

Now on the other hand, if you know a good slimy lawyer that can help ABIA members with collection issues, why dont you just say so. (That is unless you are collecting referal fees from said slimy bastid)

Something else you should understand:

- What Glen said. Take the power back. Grow some hair on your nuts and take them to court yourself. Then go online and share the information with your fellow mechanics.* Word of mouth is a powerful networking tool.

- Never work for anyone without a contract, that you are fully familiar with and fully agree to. In other words, don't set yourself up to get screwed, and then wonder why later.

- For many large companies, paying out invoices sooner than 30 days is unheard of. For some companies, it may be as long as 90 days. THIS IS STANDARD PROCEDURE unless you make specific plans otherwise.

- Your legal rights vary GREATLY from state to state and even from county to county. There is no reason why you should not be fully aware of what they are, if you are serious about your business. (This is also true of tax liability.)


*might be a good idea to start and share a list of dead-beat companies and/or clients

Jeff Black said:

Does xxxxx owe you money....and refuses to pay?

If you are having trouble ....action will be taken by the ABIA...

It is time to send a message....we will take action which will ultimately hurt these companies.

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On a humorous note - the song "Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap" just popped into my head...LOL

..the ABIA mafia is in the house. pay up or jeff will break boaf ya legs.

Thanks for the help

Mr. Bond said:

..the ABIA mafia is in the house. pay up or jeff will break boaf ya legs.

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I forgot to laugh

For those interested in learning more about the small claims process, visit your attorney general's website:

Illinois
http://www.illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/consumers/smlclaims.html

California
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/smallclaims/

New Jersey
http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/civil/civ-02.htm

New York
http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/nyc/smallclaims/index.shtml

Texas
http://library.law.smu.edu/Research...exas-Law-(300)/307-Small-Claims-Court---Texas

Wisconsin
http://www.wicourts.gov/about/pubs/circuit/smallclaimsguide.htm

I think you get the idea...

Tap Tap . Dont forget about overtime class action lawsuite i,m in a couple right now from being a cable guy. As for not getting paid on pool tables I turn down alot of work, Or tell them a check price cash price both come with receipt If paying by check I cash it in the middle of install when I take a break unless I now them well. If it dont clear I dont put end rails on till it does. I stopped chasing money along time ago. I do alot less tables and have less head ache's.

I'm trying to bid on 11 table refelt/relevel job sub wants to give me 15 worn out gandy's in trade for labor and cloth and I can only work certain hours cheapest hotel is $75.00 a night . So thats about $2,000+ cloth and $2,000+ labor and $300 in room rent think its worth it everything needs replating and new laminate rail tops from previous hacks beating in the featherstrips.

Its easy to say yes try saying no once in awhile. It fells good.

x table whore
Craig

does anyone remember Zbilliards. It got to the point when they owed me $1700 and after a few months Ive taken them to small claims court. I won the case. He didn't pay. Then I had the sherriff levy his bank account. I took someone to court and I won and they just didn't pay. I counldn't levy his account because I didn't have bank information.

sdbilliards said:

does anyone remember Zbilliards. It got to the point when they owed me $1700 and after a few months Ive taken them to small claims court. I won the case. He didn't pay. Then I had the sherriff levy his bank account. I took someone to court and I won and they just didn't pay. I counldn't levy his account because I didn't have bank information.

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Seems you missed some steps -

Per the Superior Court of California
If You Do Not Have Any Information About the Judgment Debtor's Assets

If you do not have any information about the judgment debtor's assets, you may file an Application and Order to Produce Statement of Assets and to Appear for Examination (SC-134) with the clerk.

* The Order of Examination is a hearing where you ask the judgment debtor questions about his or her assets. You may ask where the judgment debtor banks and where he or she works, among other questions. There is a fee to file an Order of Examination of a Judgment Debtor.

* If you file for an Order of Examination, you may request a Subpoena Duces Tecum from the court which, when served, will order the debtor to bring certain documents to the examination hearing. Documents that are generally subpoenaed include pay stubs, bank statements, accounts receivable, and any other documents that tend to show where assets are.

* Both the Application and Order to Produce Statement of Assets and to Appear for Examination and Subpoena Duces Tecum must be personally served on the judgment debtor. For more information on personal service, see our Proof of Service page.

Jeff Black said:

And Mr. Bond thanks for clarifying my suspicions. I thought you sounded a lot like an attorney LOL.

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Part of the reason for this forum to exist is the 'useful exchange of information'. So, generally speaking I try to offer accurate, concise and relevant information, with a minimum of fluff.

If that is what you mean by "sounding like an attorney", then I guess I'm guilty of sounding like an attorney. Shucks.



If you don't mind me asking, can you specifically explain how "getting enough members to cooperate" will help just one individual member collect from a debtor? Cooperate how?

And why should it require the participation of other members, for me to get paid?



dot dot dot

Jeff Black said:

OK so I understand that most dont want help with this issue. No problem, less work for us to do. But the ones who do the ABIA will be taking action on and there is a solution beyond the scope of complaining on this forum. Bob I think you know we have options and we are gathering quite a nice list of amounts owed and companies owing from the group, if we can get enough members together to cooperate it will be very simple to resolve this problem within the next 6 months. And Mr. Bond thanks for clarifying my suspicions. I thought you sounded a lot like an attorney LOL.

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Jeff, we have been having discussions about insurance in this forum. Perhaps something along the lines of reasonable insurance cost. Liability insurance for example. Everyone seems to be paying about $75 per month, we've been paying this for years without claims. No one had a time where they actually used it, seems like it should be alot cheaper for a low risk job. Companies are lumping us with movers, seems like movers would be high risk for insurance companies. Health Insurance, 3 guys have it and one who gets it through his wife. Really, we have the top mechanics in the country on here and nobody can afford health insurance, that's sad.

I have a $1,000,000 general liability policy, I pay (cash price a year $664) $252 down and 9 payments of $51 . Is this about what you guys are paying?

mechanic/player said:

I have a $1,000,000 general liability policy, I pay (cash price a year $664) $252 down and 9 payments of $51 . Is this about what you guys are paying?

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those rates aren't bad. who's your carrier?