Best 3C players ever

Terry Ardeno

Terry Ardeno

I still love my wife
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I'm going to post this on the main forum rather than in the carom section in hopes of getting more opinions.

Who do you feel are the, say, top 5 players ever in 3 cushion? I would especially like to hear Bob Jewett's and mr3cushion's opinions on this.

I've never seen a 3C table in my life. I've watch some 3C matches and those guys are incredibly talented.

While finishing this up, Dallas West, the great 14.1 player, is also a very good 3C player, as is Efren. But they would never make the all time list of 3C champs.

But who do you feels ranks the top 5 in order of all time.

Thanks.
 
12squared

12squared

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Raymond Ceulemans

Hi Terry,

Raymond Ceulemans is the best 3C player of all time, period.

There are many out there today that have higher averages, but the game has changed to allow that to happen: best 3 of 5 15 point games alternating breaks. Ceulemans played in an era where they played 50-60 point games so you would have to manage the game with more safeties, etc, not just pure offense. Raymond has won more World Titles than any other living human and there will probably never be another that dominates as he did during the 60s, 70s, 80s.

OK, now let's hear from the experts.

Dave
 
mr3cushion

mr3cushion

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No Quetion about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

12squared said:
Hi Terry,

Raymond Ceulemans is the best 3C player of all time, period.

There are many out there today that have higher averages, but the game has changed to allow that to happen: best 3 of 5 15 point games alternating breaks. Ceulemans played in an era where they played 50-60 point games so you would have to manage the game with more safeties, etc, not just pure offense. Raymond has won more World Titles than any other living human and there will probably never be another that dominates as he did during the 60s, 70s, 80s.

OK, now let's hear from the experts.

Dave[/QUOTE

Dave; I agree 1000%,the man has had flawless fundamentals his entire life.
With that being said, he can play 80% of his younger speed till he dies!
The man is a rock at the table, and his kmowledge is second to none.
Simply the BEST EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
Click to expand...
 
LAlouie

LAlouie

AzB Silver Member
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West and Efren wouldn't make it past any decent 3c players in any given tournament much less all-time greats. 3 cushion is a different game. It's like comparing tennis and ping pong.
 
rossaroni

rossaroni

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Willie Hoppe, Welker Cochran, Torbjörn Blomdahl, Dick Jaspers are a few more all time greats. Nobuaki Kobayashi also had a few world titles and a few more runner-up finishes to Ceulemans.
 
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I

iralee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Terry Ardeno said:
I'm going to post this on the main forum rather than in the carom section in hopes of getting more opinions.

Who do you feel are the, say, top 5 players ever in 3 cushion? I would especially like to hear Bob Jewett's and mr3cushion's opinions on this.

I've never seen a 3C table in my life. I've watch some 3C matches and those guys are incredibly talented.

While finishing this up, Dallas West, the great 14.1 player, is also a very good 3C player, as is Efren. But they would never make the all time list of 3C champs.

But who do you feels ranks the top 5 in order of all time.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Players with extra-ordinary talent:
Sang Lee
Frederic Caudron
Semih Sayginer

Powerful competitors:
Torbjorn Blomdahl
Raymond Ceulemans
Dick Jaspers
Marco Zanetti

-Ira
 
12squared

12squared

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rossaroni said:
Willie Hoppe, Welker Cochran, Torbjörn Blomdahl, Dick Jaspers are a few more all time greats. Nobuaki Kobayashi also had a few world titles and a few more runner-up finishes to Ceulemans.
Click to expand...

You are so right about Kobayashi. During a 15 year span he was the 2nd best player in the world behind Ceulemans. He must hate Raymond :).
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

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mr3cushion said:
12squared said:
Hi Terry,

Raymond Ceulemans is the best 3C player of all time, period.

There are many out there today that have higher averages, but the game has changed to allow that to happen: best 3 of 5 15 point games alternating breaks. Ceulemans played in an era where they played 50-60 point games so you would have to manage the game with more safeties, etc, not just pure offense. Raymond has won more World Titles than any other living human and there will probably never be another that dominates as he did during the 60s, 70s, 80s.

OK, now let's hear from the experts.

Dave[/QUOTE

Dave; I agree 1000%,the man has had flawless fundamentals his entire life.
With that being said, he can play 80% of his younger speed till he dies!
The man is a rock at the table, and his kmowledge is second to none.
Simply the BEST EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
Click to expand...

Billy, I've often said that the most solid stance I ever saw on any pool or billiard player belonged to Mr. Ceulemans, Harold Worst may have been second.

After him, the current generation has many great players, with Blomdahl standing out for over twenty years now. Sang Lee also must be mentioned on this thread. He totally rejuvenated Three Cushions in the USA. Willie Hoppe and Welker Cochran are legends for a reason. They were running huge numbers with equipment that was inferior to what they play on today.

P.S. Don't ever let anyone tell you Fats couldn't play the game. I saw him in action many years ago. He beat a top player for the cheese, running nine and out!
Click to expand...
 
F

fasteddief

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Best3C'S Player

I was at Carom Cafe about 5 or 6 years when Raymond Ceulemans was ask the same question and he said without one moment of thinking he said Blomdahl is in another level at that time. Also he said Blomdahl has proven it for twenty years.
 
pt109

pt109

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12squared said:
You are so right about Kobayashi. During a 15 year span he was the 2nd best player in the world behind Ceulemans. He must hate Raymond :).
Click to expand...

One of my 2 favorite quotes came from Mr Kobayashi.
When Ceulemans was considering retiring,years ago,a reporter said to
Kobayashi "If Raymond retires,that will make you the best player in the
world.How do you feel about that?"

Kobayashi replied "If he retires,I retire.I LIVE to play Ceulemans!"

ps....my other favorite quote is from Scotty Townsend.....
..."I've never been beat...but I've run out of money a few times."
 
rossaroni

rossaroni

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Another thing about Ceulemans is he seems like a truely nice and humble person. I do not know him personally, but I have met him a couple times, and he seems like a great guy...not a bad billiard player either.:rolleyes:

Some pool players could take lessons on how to act from him.
 
mr3cushion

mr3cushion

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watchez said:
How good/great was Harry Sims - he had a pool room here in St Louis for awhile and passed away a few years ago.
Click to expand...
Watches; I knew Harry very well for many years, he was originally from either Decatur or Springfield, IL. A very nice guy, always with a big chuckle. He studied under a very good Sectional player Joe McDivitt, also from the same area, back then Harry was about a 600-700 avg. player.

It wasn't till Harry moved California that his game improved to a higher average, to a 850-900 maybe 950 player. I know he won the US National Championship twice, 1980 and 1983. We played I believe only 3 times in our careers, I won twice and we tied in 1983 at the Nationals, 50-50 in 45 innings, he tied me.

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
 
billiardshot

billiardshot

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Are we talking any 3C players or USA 3C player? I believe Danny Harriman play a little 3C.
Allen Gilbert for 3C player in America.
 
bud green

bud green

Dolley and Django
Silver Member
Blomdahl, Ceulemans, Hoppe, Jaspers, and then a bunch of others present and past like Caudron, Cochran, Sayginer, Kobayashi, Sang Lee.

Blomdahl lost the majority of his first encounters with Raymond but then pretty much owned him from then on.

Jaspers is my pick to do something absolutely nuts in the next 5-10 years. He's made 34 without missing in the multiple set format, and ran a few 20's in the longer races. I honestly think he may put up a 40 somehow.

Caudron is as talented as any player holding a cue today...throw in his small game skills and he's pretty much the best overall player on a carom table.

Like an absolute idiot, I failed to beg, bribe, or do whatever it takes to see Bozeman, Byrne, Yousri and some of the other players who used to hang out at the Vallejo, CA Elks club when I first started playing. Bozeman was one the best ever from the US, that is for certain.
 
Rich93

Rich93

A Small Time Charlie
Silver Member
I hesitate to wade in here with Bill Smith commenting, but what the hell.

I vote for Raymond Ceulemans and Willie Hoppe. Of the two, however, I prefer Hoppe by a slim margin. I guess I'm old-fashioned.

Hoppe won his first world championship at age 18 (a form of balkline) and his last at age 65 (three cushion), after which he retired. 65!! He didn't have the average of today's players, but the game was different then - more defense, unheated and less predictable tables, and less predictable (ivory) balls. Plus time hasn't stood still - more shots have been discovered, knowledge has advanced.

But in his day Hoppe had mastered all forms of billiards and for the longest period. To quote McGoorty, Jake Schaefer Jr. became better at balkline and Welker Cochran was a better 3C shotmaker, but for total mastery of the game Hoppe was in a class by himself. He ran 25 in exhibition in (I think) 1919 - a record that stood for a long time. From Wikipedia:

* World 18.1 Balkline Champion (1906, 1908-1911, 1914-1927)
* World 18.2 Balkline Champion (1907, 1910-1920, 1923, 1924, 1927)
* World Three-cushion Champion (1936, 1940-1943, 1947-1952)

He didn't start to play 3C in tournaments until the early 30's, but once he did, he eventually became tops in that too.
 
3kushn

3kushn

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watchez said:
How good/great was Harry Sims - he had a pool room here in St Louis for awhile and passed away a few years ago.
Click to expand...
Harry was a top player in the USA and won 2 National Championships. The week he passed he was playing around .850-.900. In one game I played him many years ago I lost 25-5 in 5 inings. In his 1983 Championship he became the first US player to average over 1.00 since Willie Hoppe. Torres came in second with a 1.00 average. That being said he didn't hold a candle to Ceulemans but nearly beat him in the famous tooth pick game during the World.

Ceulemans as mentioned by 12Squared was a game changer. Simply unbeatable for decades. They had to change the rules to give other players a chance. Yes today's players are posting consistantly higher averages than Ceulemans but when this started to happen years ago Ceulemans simply raised his game to meet the challange and actually winning the World in his 60's. He's the best ever and I think the other top players in the world will agree.
 
3kushn

3kushn

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jay helfert said:
mr3cushion said:
Billy, I've often said that the most solid stance I ever saw on any pool or billiard player belonged to Mr. Ceulemans, Harold Worst may have been second.

After him, the current generation has many great players, with Blomdahl standing out for over twenty years now. Sang Lee also must be mentioned on this thread. He totally rejuvenated Three Cushions in the USA. Willie Hoppe and Welker Cochran are legends for a reason. They were running huge numbers with equipment that was inferior to what they play on today.

P.S. Don't ever let anyone tell you Fats couldn't play the game. I saw him in action many years ago. He beat a top player for the cheese, running nine and out!
Click to expand...
Jay, I've been told and believe from personal experience that Fats's best game was 3C. But you don't hear about that for 2 big reasons. 1) No Tables. 2) No Money
Click to expand...
 
illusivetrout

illusivetrout

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My vote is for Blomdahl.He plays for position of all three balls.He is very creative in difficult situations,misses the kisses,plays timed shots and is not afraid to go 8,9,10 cushions around the table and still be right on the centerline of the last object ball.I must say that Jaspers is getting pretty hot and dangerous lately.I think these modern day players could show Hoppe a few things.
 
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