How aiming got its own zone?

Bambu

Bambu

Dave Manasseri
Silver Member
I'm not new to the topic, but I still dont get it. How can newer posters understand the reason aiming got its own sub forum? What is the root of the disagreement? Why does every aiming thread end up with both sides hurling insults? I thought the mods did a nice job moderating, but I suppose that wasnt easy. Is feel the crux of the matter? I cant think of anything else.
 
C

champ2107

Banned
Bambu said:
I'm not new to the topic, but I still dont get it. How can newer posters understand the reason aiming got its own sub forum? What is the root of the disagreement? Why does every aiming thread end up with both sides hurling insults? I thought the mods did a nice job moderating, but I suppose that wasnt easy. Is feel the crux of the matter? I cant think of anything else.
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basically there are some on here that believe ghost ball and shooting a million balls for like 10 years is the only possible way to learn how to aim and refuse to accept any other way. They also seem bothered if anyone has the balls to try and discuss alternative ways to aiming other than the way they aim or know about.

they also misunderstand very often we are only talking about aiming. We are not telling people the system will teach you how to stroke,read patterns,play shape,etc.

Some people just can not grasp the fact people can use edges,center balls, a reference points on a ball and most of all the pivot. This seems to complex to them.

there is also jealousy towards people that could figure out the system when they could not and also for the creator of the system.

there were a lot of claims early on from cte users that you could find on dr daves site from inexperienced users that bothered people.

non cte users trashed the systems and loyal users did there best to not let cte get buried and this became a game and apparently this became a "marketing issue" point for non users.

i look at it this way, since this is a forum open to anyone and any personality or nut or a person dumb as a stump can post here, so arguing will happen.
 
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JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
Bambu said:
I'm not new to the topic, but I still dont get it. How can newer posters understand the reason aiming got its own sub forum? What is the root of the disagreement? Why does every aiming thread end up with both sides hurling insults? I thought the mods did a nice job moderating, but I suppose that wasnt easy. Is feel the crux of the matter? I cant think of anything else.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, feel is not the problem at all. I wish it were.

It is a matter of IMPERIOUS DISRESPECT for those who utilize aiming systems especially ones like CTE/Pro1, as well as for the system itself and that is readily apparent to anyone who has read the threads on a long term basis.

Imperious has a very concise definition if one is inclined to look it up. I wish that it weren't needed.

The crux of the matter may have started many years back when an older gentleman named Hal Houle, made disparaging remarks toward some of the detractors of CTE. If I remember correctly, Hal wasn't one of the In-Crowd and didn't care what others thought and didn't mind saying so. When he was criticized for CTE, he responded in kind. In fact, he took amusement at deceiving some of the detractors of CTE and said so on more than one occasion. This probably fueled the tanks of his detractors and set them on a course hell-bent on destroying the aiming system CTE.

The aiming system developed even greater respect when Stan Shuffett created a video called CTE/Pro1 and different pro players started saying that they were using it. The detractors wailed loudly and cried that the pro players weren't using it and to name names. Well, the number of users of CTE/Pro1 has grown in the amateur world and the pro world and this continues to baffle and create more angst, so the fight to destroy CTE goes on.

Who continues to fuel the fire of disrespect? Just read the posts and see for yourself. The truth is that there has been some incendiary responses from both camps.

From my point of view, it sure seems that the other camp, just doesn't want to accept the fact that CTE/Pro1 is arguably THE BEST AIMING SYSTEM for learning how to aim as it encompasses so many more of the attributes necessary to pocket the object ball.

Personally, I think it is kind of funny (the fact that a few people are so hell-bent on trying to discredit something that has helped a lot of people aim better, because I don't care how anyone aims.

I don't think it is so funny that the detractors have resorted to disrespecting anyone who uses an aiming system.
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bambu said:
I'm not new to the topic, but I still dont get it. How can newer posters understand the reason aiming got its own sub forum? What is the root of the disagreement? Why does every aiming thread end up with both sides hurling insults? I thought the mods did a nice job moderating, but I suppose that wasnt easy. Is feel the crux of the matter? I cant think of anything else.
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Some posters on the Main Forum didn't want to sort past aiming threads and others wanted to only focus on them.:thumbup:
 
steev

steev

Lazy User
Silver Member
Basically, aiming discussions have turned into 'us vs. them'.

Some posters above point to one side as the problem, but really, it's both 'sides' which perpetuate the dispute.

-s
 
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champ2107

Banned
steev said:
Basically, aiming discussions have turned into 'us vs. them'.

Some posters above point to one side as the problem, but really, it's both 'sides' which perpetuate the dispute.

-s
Click to expand...


.......please discuss and share your points that you may have?
 
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Bambu

Bambu

Dave Manasseri
Silver Member
Thanks guys, its too bad things got so out of hand. So its not about feel, its a respect thing. I can understand that. I figured the button pushers would get scolded, and the conversation would continue. That doesnt seem so hard to do, but I guess it is. It just seems like the mods gave up too soon. Some key posters toned their attitude down noticeably.
 
justadub

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
Bambu said:
Thanks guys, its too bad things got so out of hand. So its not about feel, its a respect thing. I can understand that. I figured the button pushers would get scolded, and the conversation would continue. That doesnt seem so hard to do, but I guess it is. It just seems like the mods gave up too soon. Some key posters toned their attitude down noticeably.
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Sadly, this has been going on for so long that many of the people involved are more interested in winning the argument than the actual discussion. They are personally invested in the uncivil war that they have perpetuated for so long, and cannot stand that "other side" might actually attract more supporters...

The mods cannot control it. The behavior is so extreme, and so many are "over the line" that it would take a mass banning spree, which I believe the mods are not interested in. Please realize that many of the folks that you and I might consider for a little vacation are otherwise very prominent and helpful posters here on AZB. They often make large contributions to the conversations here, it's just this topic that makes them go on tilt. This is also part of the reason that the mods haven't been more heavy-handed, methinks.

It's a damned shame.
 
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champ2107

Banned
what i did not like about all the debating was, the guys that were on the "cons" side did not know the entire system other then "aim with edges" and a "pivot" was involved. They could not possibly know the pro's and con's of the entire system. They were all so limited at what they could discuss and that was very noticeable to me with 99% of them and that is why the arguing never ended. PJ would fish for answers from the users and try and put spins on them and this was extremely personal topic for him, for some reason, it was obvious to me. Lou Figawhater would keep everyone on "ignore" and come in the threads and roll out 10 posts in a row trashing away, did he want answers or to discuss? NO! :)

I also looked at it as a war after the first year of going back and forth with these guys! They were telling me what i was doing cant be done or telling me how i was doing it, when they admittedly could not understand it? I had fun debating it and have gone on tilt too :thumbup:
 
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champ2107

Banned
steev said:
no. i am not on either side of the fight and will not join in the argument.

-s
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i wasnt asking you what side you were on or to pick a side or argue. Next time you post and you clearly direct something at people, the intelligent thing to do is explain your point or position, it may help people take you seriously.
 
F

FatherofAiming

Banned
The problem is that the "system users" are not aware that their brain is fighting against whatever system they are using.

So there is no simple way to know how much (if at all) the system has assisted them in their aiming.

You cannot systematically aim at a small target because your brain is making millions of tiny adjustments milliseconds prior to striking the cueball.

Now do you see the problem
 
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champ2107

Banned
FatherofAiming said:
The problem is that the "system users" are not aware that their brain is fighting against whatever system they are using.

This is the benefit of using a system like cte/pro1

So there is no simple way to know how much (if at all) the system has assisted them in their aiming.

cte users have experienced the feeling that the system helps them feel that aiming is close to automatic, whether that is a illusion or not it is a benefit and where anyone would like there aiming to be at.


You cannot systematically aim at a small target because your brain is making millions of tiny adjustments in milliseconds prior to striking the cueball.

This is the benefit of using a system like cte/pro1.

Now do you see the problem

Nope?
Click to expand...


you want to try again, can i take a step without my brain having these millions of tiny adjustments milliseconds? keep it real. i can see you have no experience shooting a system like cte/pro1 and this what i have posted above :) im "guessing" your also the guy that has just been banned with multiple accounts, not that i really care :)
 
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Bambu

Bambu

Dave Manasseri
Silver Member
JoeyA said:
Unfortunately, feel is not the problem at all. I wish it were.

It is a matter of IMPERIOUS DISRESPECT for those who utilize aiming systems especially ones like CTE/Pro1, as well as for the system itself and that is readily apparent to anyone who has read the threads on a long term basis.

Imperious has a very concise definition if one is inclined to look it up. I wish that it weren't needed.

The crux of the matter may have started many years back when an older gentleman named Hal Houle, made disparaging remarks toward some of the detractors of CTE. If I remember correctly, Hal wasn't one of the In-Crowd and didn't care what others thought and didn't mind saying so. When he was criticized for CTE, he responded in kind. In fact, he took amusement at deceiving some of the detractors of CTE and said so on more than one occasion. This probably fueled the tanks of his detractors and set them on a course hell-bent on destroying the aiming system CTE.

The aiming system developed even greater respect when Stan Shuffett created a video called CTE/Pro1 and different pro players started saying that they were using it. The detractors wailed loudly and cried that the pro players weren't using it and to name names. Well, the number of users of CTE/Pro1 has grown in the amateur world and the pro world and this continues to baffle and create more angst, so the fight to destroy CTE goes on.

Who continues to fuel the fire of disrespect? Just read the posts and see for yourself. The truth is that there has been some incendiary responses from both camps.

From my point of view, it sure seems that the other camp, just doesn't want to accept the fact that CTE/Pro1 is arguably THE BEST AIMING SYSTEM for learning how to aim as it encompasses so many more of the attributes necessary to pocket the object ball.

Personally, I think it is kind of funny (the fact that a few people are so hell-bent on trying to discredit something that has helped a lot of people aim better, because I don't care how anyone aims.

I don't think it is so funny that the detractors have resorted to disrespecting anyone who uses an aiming system.
Click to expand...



Question here Joey. Am I correct in assuming that pro-1 is more accurate than any other version of cte because it calls for different bridge lengths? Are there any other reasons its better for you, or is it just your preference? How long did you need to work with it before you felt good about it?
 
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champ2107

Banned
cte/pro1 by stan is the most detailed of the cte/ete systems and take away the most amount of feel then all others by far. if you look at 1/2 ball pivot system, you have an ete,etc edge to other edge and thats it, not enough there and a lot of feel is needed to master it. This is another thing that bothered me, people were debating and not being specific and grouped everything together, which was wrong.

bridge length is not a factor in the pro1 part of the system and i have never really paid attention to it in the manual part of it either. This bridge length is nothing that needs special attention in my eyes, this is something dr dave brought up early in the cte discussions before cte/pro1 even came out and people were only using the cte line and no other lines. Adjustments had to be made often with bridge length when using just the cte line.
 
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Bambu

Bambu

Dave Manasseri
Silver Member
The little thats out there about pro-1 says bridge length matters. If it works for you anyway, great. But if not for that, then what would make it better or more accurate than other pivot methods?
 
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champ2107

Banned
This is another thing that bothered me and this is where they chose to debate in, manual cte, dr dave included. They were not even knowledgable enough to distinguish between manual cte and pro1. Cte/pro1 is two systems, one is basic (manual cte) and one is advanced (Pro1) They never discussed the finish product :)

with the basic manual cte it is advised to change your bridge length on some shots and even though manual cte can be a stand alone system, it is where you learn the system and advance onto pro1

In Pro1, there is no bridge length adjustments as taught on the dvd.
 
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Bambu

Bambu

Dave Manasseri
Silver Member
Kinda weird that the dvd doesnt discuss bridge length. The info Dave posted must have come from somewhere. Same question either way, whats better about pro-1, how is it more accurate?
 
C

champ2107

Banned
Bambu said:
Kinda weird that the dvd doesnt discuss bridge length. The info Dave posted must have come from somewhere. Same question either way, whats better about pro-1, how is it more accurate?
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there is something in the glossary part of the dvd about bridge length, i believe. dr dave came out with the famous 3 shot picture before cte/pro1 came out and there was a huge amount of misleading information about cte systems floating around mostly from cte users back then. A lot of users including myself just used the ctel and a pivot to shoot and bridge length was a factor using the system that way. I have asked dr dave to update his site because a lot of info on there are from claims before cte/pro1 came out and most people did not know any better and the info he has is not from pro1 but from the training part of cte/pro1, he refuses for some reason? Bridge length is really a non factor trust me, you will not hear dr dave talk about pro1 and bridge length "ever".


so are we done with the bridge? you are asking, how is pro1 more accurate? can you be more specific as to what you want to know?
 
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