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BeiberLvr
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12-01-2019, 08:22 PM

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Originally Posted by watchez View Post
I knew the answer 😀.


We all know how much it takes for someone's ratings to change. I would be surprised if there was more than a 30 point difference in any of their ratings from then to today.

Johan won it twice with lesser teams.
  
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12-01-2019, 08:45 PM

JR also got tens of thousands of dollars to enable boot camps, travel etc. Mark never got a dime, compared to Johan, and in fact had to fight to get any funding at all. That also made a huge difference, imo.

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Originally Posted by watchez View Post
Johan got to pick his entire team — MW was nerve afforded that luxury. Not to take anything away from Johan as on paper the Americans were underdogs each year and played exceptionally well to win.


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12-01-2019, 09:07 PM

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Originally Posted by BeiberLvr View Post
We all know how much it takes for someone's ratings to change. I would be surprised if there was more than a 30 point difference in any of their ratings from then to today.

Johan won it twice with lesser teams.
First you act like a 30 point difference is no big deal.

Second Johan won with one less player. Surely if you are as smart as you think you are, you can figure it out.


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12-01-2019, 10:19 PM

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Originally Posted by BeiberLvr View Post
We all know how much it takes for someone's ratings to change. I would be surprised if there was more than a 30 point difference in any of their ratings from then to today.

Johan won it twice with lesser teams.
You could also compare the Fargo rates of the European teams that Johan coached team USA beat. I’ll bet the last two Euro teams were really high on the list of highest rated team Europe to ever take the stage at Mosconi Cup.
  
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12-02-2019, 04:55 AM

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Originally Posted by watchez View Post
First you act like a 30 point difference is no big deal.

Second Johan won with one less player. Surely if you are as smart as you think you are, you can figure it out.
If the ratings have changed, then I would think that guys like Dechaine, Morris and Hatch all had higher ratings since they were all playing a lot more back then.


I get it though. Mark Wilson is the best.
  
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12-02-2019, 07:24 AM

At the end of the day, even if its true that its only the money that made the difference and its merely JR's presence that made the money come in, i'd say hell yeah why not.

Maybe MW could have done the same. Maybe he couldnt. who cares in this moment? Team USA looks like a proper team with plenty of fire. The momentum is picking up and the belief is there right now; if this was something i could guarantee by paying xx grand upfront i'd pony up without hesitation. just enjoy the moment please
  
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12-02-2019, 02:47 PM

USA won this year because of better team chemistry and racking format

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12-02-2019, 03:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by watchez View Post
Johan got to pick his entire team — MW was nerve afforded that luxury. Not to take anything away from Johan as on paper the Americans were underdogs each year and played exceptionally well to win.
I agree. And MW picked Sky. Sky got 2 years under his belt. He was a rookie to the big stage. Without that seasoning would he played as well under Johann? Probably not, possibly could have, we'll never really know. But there were a lot of hands in this.


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12-02-2019, 04:36 PM

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Originally Posted by pinkspider View Post
At the end of the day, even if its true that its only the money that made the difference and its merely JR's presence that made the money come in, i'd say hell yeah why not.

Maybe MW could have done the same. Maybe he couldnt. who cares in this moment? Team USA looks like a proper team with plenty of fire. The momentum is picking up and the belief is there right now; if this was something i could guarantee by paying xx grand upfront i'd pony up without hesitation. just enjoy the moment please

Well ya, whatever.

But the point I and a couple of other observers were making is that before we all crown JR as the greatest coach since Belichick or Lombardi, it is useful to note what appears to be substantially greater financial and planning support from MR for JR.

I personally recall MW, and his wife Cathy, doing everything but selling cupcakes in front of supermarkets to collect monies for their MC teams. They held multiple fund raising events and sold raffle tickets to support their teams...

I don't see JR selling raffle tickets.

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12-02-2019, 06:49 PM

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Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
Well ya, whatever.

But the point I and a couple of other observers were making is that before we all crown JR as the greatest coach since Belichick or Lombardi, it is useful to note what appears to be substantially greater financial and planning support from MR for JR.

I personally recall MW, and his wife Cathy, doing everything but selling cupcakes in front of supermarkets to collect monies for their MC teams. They held multiple fund raising events and sold raffle tickets to support their teams...

I don't see JR selling raffle tickets.

Lou Figueroa
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It would be more productive to start a thread that celebrates/remind people of Mark's efforts before Johan, and since you guys are privy to all the things he has done, detail them so the wider world know he did to help lay the foundation for what the team is like today – that his efforts should not go unnoticed; otherwise it just looks like ppl tryin to pour cold water on JR, and at the same time people dont know about the good stuff that MW did.
  
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12-03-2019, 06:46 AM

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Originally Posted by pinkspider View Post
It would be more productive to start a thread that celebrates/remind people of Mark's efforts before Johan, and since you guys are privy to all the things he has done, detail them so the wider world know he did to help lay the foundation for what the team is like today – that his efforts should not go unnoticed; otherwise it just looks like ppl tryin to pour cold water on JR, and at the same time people dont know about the good stuff that MW did.

At the time, what MW did during his tenure as MC coach was discussed here -- bringing some of that up now isn't about raining on JR parade, it's about keeping things in perspective.

Lou Figueroa

Last edited by lfigueroa; 12-03-2019 at 06:36 PM.
  
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12-03-2019, 08:15 AM

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Originally Posted by BeiberLvr View Post
Jesus Christ.

Mark Wilson is a top notch instructor but Johan gives him the 7 in coaching.
It is hard for me to understand the basis for this conclusion, unless you have received or observed Mark and Johan coach.

I am not saying Mark is better than Johan or vice versa. However, lfigueroa made a good point about Matchroom backing for Johan.

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12-03-2019, 10:45 AM

I've always been results oriented. Mark is a good friend of mine and unfortunately his teams did not win. I don't know Johann well at all and his teams did win. IMO he was doing something right so more power to him.

I think even Mark would give credit to Johann for a job well done.


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12-03-2019, 02:01 PM

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Originally Posted by jay helfert View Post
I've always been results oriented. Mark is a good friend of mine and unfortunately his teams did not win. I don't know Johann well at all and his teams did win. IMO he was doing something right so more power to him.

I think even Mark would give credit to Johann for a job well done.
Ditto. Mark Wilson is a fantastic instructor, the author of a fine book on pool, and an enduring credit to our sport. His Mosconi teams always exhibited professionalism. All hail Johan but Mark was, is, and will always be one of the gems of American pool and is to be admired for his many contributions to pool and its growth.
  
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12-03-2019, 04:01 PM

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Ditto. Mark Wilson is a fantastic instructor, the author of a fine book on pool, and an enduring credit to our sport. His Mosconi teams always exhibited professionalism. All hail Johan but Mark was, is, and will always be one of the gems of American pool and is to be admired for his many contributions to pool and its growth.
I agree with all of that. Unfortunately his coaching of the Mosconi Cup teams will not be one of the highlights of his pool career.

Johann on the other other hand has proven himself to be a superior coach and that is what we're talking about here I believe.


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