School Athletics and Pocket Billiards

DavidMNienow

DavidMNienow

Glamour Dave
Silver Member
So I have been thinking about all the discussions I have seen over the years that I have been a member of this forum that discussed the state of professional pool in this country, and all the discussion about how to improve the condition of pool. And for awhile now I have thought about an idea that I cant recall ever really seeing any serious discussion of in regards to how to improve prove pool at the professional level.

And my discussion point is the idea of trying to get pocket billiards promoted as an athletic activity that takes place at least at the junior high and high school level for school athletic programs.

In my home state of Oregon, school athletic programs center around

Football, Volleyball, Soccer, and Cross Country for the fall.

Basketball, Swimming, Wrestling, Dance/Drill, and Cheerleading for Winter.

Baseball, Softball, Track and Field, Tennis and Golf for the Spring.

As I was doing research on school athletics in general, I found a link to the National Federation of State High School Associations. This website provided survey data that broke down all the different athletic programs that students participate in across the country. And nowhere will u find a listing for any form of billiards taking place as an organized school athletic program.

In my mind the poor state of professional pool in the USA can be tied to the lack of pocket billiards being considered a worthwhile athletic activity for young students to participate in at the school athletic level across the country. When u pull up the survey information found at this federation site you can see that there are 10K+ schools that participate with athletic programs devoted to the biggest sports of football, volleyball, baseball, basketball, soccer. You can find that hundreds and a few thousand schools that carry programs for golf, wrestling, track and field, gymnastics, swimming, lacrosse, and water polo. And you can find dozens of schools that include athletic programs for archery, rifelry, and some schools that apparently also provide Bocce Ball. But not a single program devoted to any form of pocket billiards.

So a question to be asked is how healthy would the billiards industry be, and the condition of professional pool be, if there were several hundred, let alone several thousand schools across the country all offering pocket billiards as an athletic program for junior high and high school students to participate in?
 
Solomon

Solomon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It isn't a bad idea. Some schools have golf teams, chess teams, math teams, etc. so billiard teams wouldn't be far fetched. I don't see school districts paying for pool tables and other equipment. Therefore it would require sponsorship from local pool halls and/or bars, and I can see schools having an issue establishing that kind of partnership with facilities that serve alcohol.
 
victorl

victorl

Where'd my stroke go?
Silver Member
It's worth discussin and it would be wonderful to see that happen as well, but there would be a lot of obvious issues to overcome, such as:

Unhealthy image of billiards in general (non-athletic, gambling, hustling, bars, drinking, smoking, etc.), so I can't see many parents and teachers approving it as something for their kids to do at school.

Where to play? Can't take kids out to the local bar, and very few kid-friendly pool rooms around. Putting a table or two in the school will take up a lot of space that can't be used for anything else, whereas almost all other sports are mobile and can share space with other actvities.


At the collegiate level however, you have people like Mark Wilson, who has put together a wonderful program at Lindenwood and is helping to bring class and integrity back into the game. They're headed in the right direction, but I feel it will still be while before the public perception of the game can change enough for pool to be accepted as a viable school activity for children.
 
336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Nice Point!

DavidMNienow said:
So I have been thinking about all the discussions I have seen over the years that I have been a member of this forum that discussed the state of professional pool in this country, and all the discussion about how to improve the condition of pool. And for awhile now I have thought about an idea that I cant recall ever really seeing any serious discussion of in regards to how to improve prove pool at the professional level.

And my discussion point is the idea of trying to get pocket billiards promoted as an athletic activity that takes place at least at the junior high and high school level for school athletic programs.

In my home state of Oregon, school athletic programs center around

Football, Volleyball, Soccer, and Cross Country for the fall.

Basketball, Swimming, Wrestling, Dance/Drill, and Cheerleading for Winter.

Baseball, Softball, Track and Field, Tennis and Golf for the Spring.

As I was doing research on school athletics in general, I found a link to the National Federation of State High School Associations. This website provided survey data that broke down all the different athletic programs that students participate in across the country. And nowhere will u find a listing for any form of billiards taking place as an organized school athletic program.

In my mind the poor state of professional pool in the USA can be tied to the lack of pocket billiards being considered a worthwhile athletic activity for young students to participate in at the school athletic level across the country. When u pull up the survey information found at this federation site you can see that there are 10K+ schools that participate with athletic programs devoted to the biggest sports of football, volleyball, baseball, basketball, soccer. You can find that hundreds and a few thousand schools that carry programs for golf, wrestling, track and field, gymnastics, swimming, lacrosse, and water polo. And you can find dozens of schools that include athletic programs for archery, rifelry, and some schools that apparently also provide Bocce Ball. But not a single program devoted to any form of pocket billiards.

So a question to be asked is how healthy would the billiards industry be, and the condition of professional pool be, if there were several hundred, let alone several thousand schools across the country all offering pocket billiards as an athletic program for junior high and high school students to participate in?
Click to expand...

Thats quite a nice point you make David. I would believe that part of the problem would be equipment. There might even be places that have a place but no equipment. Were I an Equipment Company I would be very tempted to try and develop a program whereby equipment could be had straight from the manufacturer at close to cost.

If xyz Pool Table company provided the tables, transportation and setup and accepted monthly or yearly payment from the school for the equipment after fund raisers had been done I think the benefit would really come back when it came time to buy tables. I believe tables would get sold.

It something that schools in colder climates might likely embrace and it could be a real grassroots effort that could bear fruit.

I think you have made a nice point and the solution is something that doesnt involve a Room Owner having to do something which means its more likely to work.
 
R

RioSevario

Rivers
Silver Member
The beauty to pool is that it isn't designated a Male or Female Sport. I know that a lot of schools where I am don't have baseball for boys in Middle School because they don't have a girl sport to offset it. Hopefully pool shooting parents would be able to get on board with a program.

I for one would support it. My children love to play we just don't have anywhere they can play consistently.
 
B

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
When you try to sell at the school board level, I recommend you compare it with the chess club, the math club, etc. Stress the need to understand angles, physics, team play, emotional control and hand-eye coordination.

If you start out comparing it to athletics, your audience will tune out because they already disagree with your first premise.

In many cases I don't think equipment will be a problem. In any decent-sized city you can find a table (or ten) that is begging for home (remember, donation to a school is tax-deductible). More likely problem is finding the space in the school.
 
cajunfats

cajunfats

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Discussed long ago

DavidMNienow said:
So I have been thinking about all the discussions I have seen over the years that I have been a member of this forum that discussed the state of professional pool in this country, and all the discussion about how to improve the condition of pool. And for awhile now I have thought about an idea that I cant recall ever really seeing any serious discussion of in regards to how to improve prove pool at the professional level.

And my discussion point is the idea of trying to get pocket billiards promoted as an athletic activity that takes place at least at the junior high and high school level for school athletic programs.

In my home state of Oregon, school athletic programs center around

Football, Volleyball, Soccer, and Cross Country for the fall.

Basketball, Swimming, Wrestling, Dance/Drill, and Cheerleading for Winter.

Baseball, Softball, Track and Field, Tennis and Golf for the Spring.

As I was doing research on school athletics in general, I found a link to the National Federation of State High School Associations. This website provided survey data that broke down all the different athletic programs that students participate in across the country. And nowhere will u find a listing for any form of billiards taking place as an organized school athletic program.

In my mind the poor state of professional pool in the USA can be tied to the lack of pocket billiards being considered a worthwhile athletic activity for young students to participate in at the school athletic level across the country. When u pull up the survey information found at this federation site you can see that there are 10K+ schools that participate with athletic programs devoted to the biggest sports of football, volleyball, baseball, basketball, soccer. You can find that hundreds and a few thousand schools that carry programs for golf, wrestling, track and field, gymnastics, swimming, lacrosse, and water polo. And you can find dozens of schools that include athletic programs for archery, rifelry, and some schools that apparently also provide Bocce Ball. But not a single program devoted to any form of pocket billiards.

So a question to be asked is how healthy would the billiards industry be, and the condition of professional pool be, if there were several hundred, let alone several thousand schools across the country all offering pocket billiards as an athletic program for junior high and high school students to participate in?
Click to expand...
David, the subject of Scholastic Billiards at the Jr. High and High School Level has been discussed, both here on AZ, at the Billiard Congress, and on a number of other forums. It was more than twenty years ago that an effort was made to develop an idea that would be a showcase for presentation to the National Federation of High School Sports. Like all great ideas to promote the future of pool, they have been seen as too expensive for the pool industry and players organizations. No one wants to divide up their little piece of the pie. Besides, Schools have way too much bureaucratic red tape nowadays.

It would be best to forget about the idea, and just enjoy playing. Pool is not going to be anything other than what it is. Recreation.

There are a few individual examples of localized successes with schools, but they will not be able to overcome the logistics to be a national entity.
 
bomber

bomber

Jeopardy Is My Road Game
Silver Member
The idea of pool in school has always intrigued me. I have been a public high school teacher for 11 years now. I have also coached football and baseball at the varsity level for all 11 years. Here are the real concerns from a school point of view (most of them you guys have come up with.)

1. Cost...budgets are being slashed all over the country.
2. Quality sponsor within the school to "coach."
3. It would need to start as a club, not a sport
4. Finding opponent schools
5. School board approval
6. Space

Most people outside the school don't realize how difficult it is to start a new club or sport...especially one with an unsavory reputation. Dealing with school boards in large, urban areas are even tougher than rural schools. I do think pool could work in the school environment but the only way it would work is if it stays out of bars and pool halls and it is teacher/school employee driven.

There are examples in the US of it working.
 
ceebee

ceebee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DavidMNienow said:
So I have been thinking about all the discussions I have seen over the years that I have been a member of this forum that discussed the state of professional pool in this country, and all the discussion about how to improve the condition of pool. And for awhile now I have thought about an idea that I cant recall ever really seeing any serious discussion of in regards to how to improve prove pool at the professional level.

And my discussion point is the idea of trying to get pocket billiards promoted as an athletic activity that takes place at least at the junior high and high school level for school athletic programs.

In my home state of Oregon, school athletic programs center around

Football, Volleyball, Soccer, and Cross Country for the fall.

Basketball, Swimming, Wrestling, Dance/Drill, and Cheerleading for Winter.

Baseball, Softball, Track and Field, Tennis and Golf for the Spring.

As I was doing research on school athletics in general, I found a link to the National Federation of State High School Associations. This website provided survey data that broke down all the different athletic programs that students participate in across the country. And nowhere will u find a listing for any form of billiards taking place as an organized school athletic program.

In my mind the poor state of professional pool in the USA can be tied to the lack of pocket billiards being considered a worthwhile athletic activity for young students to participate in at the school athletic level across the country. When u pull up the survey information found at this federation site you can see that there are 10K+ schools that participate with athletic programs devoted to the biggest sports of football, volleyball, baseball, basketball, soccer. You can find that hundreds and a few thousand schools that carry programs for golf, wrestling, track and field, gymnastics, swimming, lacrosse, and water polo. And you can find dozens of schools that include athletic programs for archery, rifelry, and some schools that apparently also provide Bocce Ball. But not a single program devoted to any form of pocket billiards.

So a question to be asked is how healthy would the billiards industry be, and the condition of professional pool be, if there were several hundred, let alone several thousand schools across the country all offering pocket billiards as an athletic program for junior high and high school students to participate in?
Click to expand...

Earl Munson & company have some Pool N Billiards going on in several school districts in Texas. They have been doing this for more than several years. There is gentleman that works with Professor Q-ball that arranges some school play.

We (all of us) as a group should consider giving some support to the BEGNF, by way of money, letters, attendance or whatever is needed to get Pocket Billiards & maybe Billiards into the school systems across the country.

One thing may cause a problem. If any of the kids become very good players, gambling might become detrimental to the completion of their education.
 
desertshark

desertshark

Racks on racks on racks
Silver Member
In my area, school districts are closing schools and cutting back. Teachers are losing jobs and a few schools are sitting not being used. My idea (provided funding) would be to open a pool hall in one of these empty schools.

Nonalcoholic because of the property zoning but you have more than enough room to add many different types of play and tables to try to juice the local economy and get an empty school back in use.

Could feesibly run softball leagues in the fields and use the cafeteria for food and refreshments.

Kind of the opposite of your idea, but could also run an after school program for billiards. The local APA has a juniors league I'm sure they would be interested in having a nonbar location for the kids in their own tables rather than hearing loud mouthed drunks at the bar lol.
 
S

super6

Registered
I would have loved to have had a pool/billiards club in high school. That's when I really fell in lobe with the game. There were all types of other clubs I do t see why that couldn't happen. It only took a teacher and students to get the clubs started so I'm sure it can happen if there is enough interest.

I get where you are going with this and I would definitely love to see professional pool in America back to its old glory. Unfortunately it has come down to alot of people don't have the attention span to really play or watch.
 
N

NitPicker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I believe there are still quite a few clubs such as Boys & Girls clubs, Elks, Kiwanis, Moose, etc. that still have billiards/pool as part of their programs, although they may not be very active. There are organizations out there that had and still have the interest, space and equipment, although maybe in need of upgrade/repair.
 
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