Playing Good Players

depends on the person, but they are more likely to play you if you are just one level below them...but an A player probably wouldnt want to play a D player.

CGM said:

Will better players play someone worse than them just for the sake of playing or will the lower level player have to expect to gamble to be able to play? I really want to start playing some higher level guys and I just want to know what to expect if I approach them in a pool hall.

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I used to face the same problem w u aspiring to reach the next level.

Unfortunately the much stronger player wld be extremely unmotivated to play for table time with a player they can easily beat.

Instead ya're better off asking for weight like perhaps 2 on the wire in a race to 7 or 9 ( depending on both party negotiation ) gambling cheap like 10 or 20 per set.
That immediately puts a value on the game and both will play hard.

Avoid asking for ball handicap as winning by it takes away the objective of losing to improve.

It becomes a win-win situation.
The better player gets rewarded ( if he wins n most likely ) for their hard work n recovers money they lost to better players in the past , whereas u pay school fees to improve n see what ya're lacking n needs to improve on .

Hope u get my point

Get some weight and bet something. Pretty much how everybody gets better. Don't have to bet high but enough to make both players really bear down.

After you become a familiar face in the room try engaging people. Ask for a game. Pool players are all different and of different levels. I think we are all originals. I have had my head beat in and have beaten some heads. Put your thick skin on and wade into the pool. No pun intended.

CGM said:

Yeah this is what I figured would be the most acceptable way of approaching the situation. BTW I am a C player. I really want to get better and I know the only way is to play better competition.

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Oh please...you don't have to surrender your money to get better. There are plenty of ways to do it. You can practice drills or watch youtube videos and try to copy runouts. You can learn different games and practice those. You can join a competitive league. You can play better players for freebies...or you can gamble. All of those will help you improve.

Good and bad players will play with anyone, as long as they enjoy the company. If somebody refuses to play unless he's robbing you, then you're not going to learn anything from that guy anyway.

Drew said:

Oh please...you don't have to surrender your money to get better. There are plenty of ways to do it. You can practice drills or watch youtube videos and try to copy runouts. You can learn different games and practice those. You can join a competitive league. You can play better players for freebies...or you can gamble. All of those will help you improve.

Good and bad players will play with anyone, as long as they enjoy the company. If somebody refuses to play unless he's robbing you, then you're not going to learn anything from that guy anyway.

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Totally, 110% disagree. You will NOT get the best game out of a better player playing for free. There has to be some incentive for the better player to come with it. Good players will generally give up more than enough weight to get in good work-out. Drills and practice help but not like real, tough competition.

In my opinion AGE has something to do with it. A young "hotshot" probably isn't going to show you a thing. But a good shot that's 55+. This person likely has a a bit of grandfather inside of him and might just show you something.

You have to pay to play. It's the only motivation a superior player has to play you. You can bet he did the same thing when he was where you are now.

You do NOT have to pay to play!

Every person is different.
This is, in my opinion, one of the most important lessons, in pool and in life.

Everyone (and I mean everyone) should be able to learn something from someone.

I have seen countless situations where a below-average player did something (albeit by accident) that I have not thought of and have tried to reproduce on my own.

They may also make a comment that may cause an OPEN-MINDED person to rethink their perspective on some nuance.

For me, the biggest deterrent to playing a weaker player is their attitude. If they are just going to throw their stick at the ball and proclaim loudly to anyone that "They are just getting their asses kicked" then I would consider that an unpleasant experience and avoid it at all costs. If they are genuine about trying hard, and are respectful, asking questions along the way etc., I would happily play *anyone* under any circumstances. Sometimes playing a "banger" can be more fun than playing a "player." Truth be told, many players have attitudes already...

If someone feels that playing you is wasting their time you should make a note of who that person is and avoid them in the future. They have little respect and are pool snobs in my opinion. They have also forgotten that they were beginners once. Or...it could be that the only way they got to play better people was to pay to play themselves, so they may feel you should attend the school of hard knocks yourself. I disagree with this approach personally. This game is complex and difficult and I believe information should be SHARED when possible. Too many people hide or hoard information because of some supposed edge, which rarely pays off.

For example, if I played you and showed you a few things, am I to now fear that you will be beating me soon? No...and if you do...that means that I must continually work to improve, not just you. Don't buy into the concept that you have to lose small-action sets in order to "earn your stripes"...that is old-school BS. On another forum I did recommend doing just that for someone to improve their game, but that is NOT the only way.

I recently played someone 1P over the weekend and he lost every game, but during that set I did realize that my game was very rusty and I needed a lot of work.

Some players just need to learn humility. They seem to have forgotten their beginnings.

You might try getting into some local tournaments...you'll gain experience under pressure and you will have the chance to play some good players at a fairly low cost.

Personally I don't think I play my best without putting something on the line... that's where the gambling aspect helps because you have to learn how to play under pressure.

Not that I'm a great player or anything but in my small world I'm at least decent. I will often play lesser skilled players for fun but I've found often times the lesser skilled players try so hard to play their best game that they end up playing at a SNAILS pace! So I end up avoiding certain players because of this. So if you're lucky enough to find a better player to shoot and there's nothing but pride on the line -- keep the game moving. I remind myself of this when I'm the lesser skilled player myself. Nobody will be impressed if you or I spend 5 minutes planning out a 3 rail kick shot. Practice those later and just get up there and get on with it. Otherwise, don't be suprised if that player passes the next time you ask him to shoot.

CGM said:

Well I would greatly appreciate free lessons. I just want to know how to approach it as I dont want to offend anyone. Myself, if I were the better player, I wouldn't expect to be paid but I get a high level player not wanting to play a lower level person.

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"Hey! Do you want to play a few games?"
...usually works for me

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of guys out there who won't play unless they're making money...but you won't learn anything from those type of people, so don't worry about it.

And yes, if you're playing guys who are levels above you, you probably won't see their best game unless you put some pressure on them with a strong handicap. But those guys will be running over you with their "half-ass" game...so does it really matter?

The most learning you'll get is by playing guys who are very close to your level. If you're going to gamble, you should be gambling with other C players: without weight. There's no point paying an A player to run out on you all day. You can watch champions run out on youtube.

Honestly, I would suggest joining a competitive league to start exposing yourself to all the other players.

BasementDweller said:

Not that I'm a great player or anything but in my small world I'm at least decent. I will often play lesser skilled players for fun but I've found often times the lesser skilled players try so hard to play their best game that they end up playing at a SNAILS pace! So I end up avoiding certain players because of this. So if you're lucky enough to find a better player to shoot and there's nothing but pride on the line -- keep the game moving. I remind myself of this when I'm the lesser skilled player myself. Nobody will be impressed if you or I spend 5 minutes planning out a 3 rail kick shot. Practice those later and just get up there and get on with it. Otherwise, don't be suprised if that player passes the next time you ask him to shoot.

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+1 :thumbup:

make sure the time is right

Years ago when there was a lot of action going on you didn't want to ask a really
good player to play some cheap. They were trying to make money, like a job. I would
wait until the place was pretty dead and then ask hey Buddy make a game cheap,
just give me a chance to draw out. Then I would say if you get 5 or 7 head or what ever
we adjust a ball, same with me. Back then it was for $5 on the low side $10 a game high side Contrary to what you here everyone was not betting a $1000 a game back then.
I got to know these players this way, became friends, a learned a to lot for not a lot
of money. And when the place was dead they were more than happy to do it, because
it would put a hundred or so in there pocket and that went a long way. Plus you got
to play a long time and If you asked a question they were more than eager to help.
I did this with all the Champions that were regulars around the Cotton Bowling Palace
and Times Square. Buddy, Louie,Greg Stevens, etc. A few were not good loser's and
that's putting it mildly. If I happened to break even which didn't happen very often I
would always pay the time or if I happen to be a few games ahead I would say just get the time and we're even.
Like I said I learned a lot a made friends with some of the best players in the world,
and when I was matching up a game and Buddy or whoever would come over and
ask for a part of my action it made up for that little amount that I donated.
My buddy Dean on the other hand never did this he would match up with any Champion
that was in the place and bet a high as the wanted as long a he thought he had a
chance. All of them knew him a would try to get him down, which was not hard to do.
I had a couple of dose's of that. Now the really good players don't hang around the
pool rooms like years ago so it is probably harder to do this sort of thing.
jack

Rackemep said:

You might try getting into some local tournaments...you'll gain experience under pressure and you will have the chance to play some good players at a fairly low cost.

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Screw gambling.Tourney play is the cheap way to do it and they have to play you and you will get them all out because they won't take a chance losing an easy round...and if you ask enough better players to play you will find who play just to play.You won't always be first pick though.