How I broke through my toughest plateau
- Thread starter Tin Man
- Start date
!!!!!!!!!!!!What!!!!!!!!!!!!
Attachments
Consider this..........at some point you must say to yourself........”there is no reason for me to miss”.
One day, I realized that with the amount time I have put in with a focus plan like you are doing, that there is no reason for me to miss.
I had developed my skills to a very high level, but still missed.
So, me missing was all between my ears and not for lack of a very good skill set.
This is where the real hard work begins. Getting whatever thoughts out of your head that is preventing you from using the skills you have developed.
In other words, at some point, your progress will be all mental and not for lack of skills.
.
One day, I realized that with the amount time I have put in with a focus plan like you are doing, that there is no reason for me to miss.
I had developed my skills to a very high level, but still missed.
So, me missing was all between my ears and not for lack of a very good skill set.
This is where the real hard work begins. Getting whatever thoughts out of your head that is preventing you from using the skills you have developed.
In other words, at some point, your progress will be all mental and not for lack of skills.
.
I came to the same conclusion a few years ago, but it was more:
People make these shots all the time and so will I, here and now.
And I won a pretty big one.
People make these shots all the time and so will I, here and now.
And I won a pretty big one.
I get a lot of my inspiration from musicians. I feel playing pool has a lot in common with playing music.
Playing great pool requires playing with great feeling just like playing great music requires playing with great feeling.
You can not be just going through the motions. As you must feel the music, you must feel the shot.
Playing great pool requires playing with great feeling just like playing great music requires playing with great feeling.
You can not be just going through the motions. As you must feel the music, you must feel the shot.
Yes. There's also a lot of similarities to cycling.
A largely solo effort, you reap the rewards and suffer the consequences.
Take what you want and thank/ curse yourself.
mental toughness
Thank you uwate.
This is a very broad question and getting into it doesn't seem to like to fit well in a forum thread. I've got a lot of ideas but hadn't really talked about them much in the past as they're a little personal and people have such vastly different ideas about the mental game I tried to avoid discussing it with others. Since I've been doing bootcamps I've been talking more to others and been trying to increasingly organize my thoughts. I've already had a lot of them written out in journals but not in the right order. Some ideas can't be explained so easily in one discussion, it requires people to little by little learn new ways to conceptualize their relationship with the game. It's like trying to teach a beginner how to play pool in one hour. So I'm working on finding the right order and timeline to do my best to lead down a path that can be most easily followed. Not that I have all the answers, but I've learned a lot that helps me avoid challenges I see many people struggle with.
I'd say one goal of the mental game is to manage disruptive thoughts and feelings so you can deliver a strong performance. There are other facets like generating motivation, goal setting, and so on, but game play is a good place to start. So from what I can tell people employ one of three approaches to the mental game:
1) Denial/experience. "Bah. The mental game is new age mumbo jumbo. Shoot the balls in." I suppose this might work for some people to some extent through volume and experience. If you make enough mistakes enough times and want to win badly enough you might find ways to avoid many of the pitfalls that come along with competition.
2) Toolbelt of cliches and gimmicks. These people recognize the mental game is important but don't really know what to do about it. Their plan of attack consists of a bunch of sports cliches they've heard in movies or theories they've concocted. Things like "Play the table not the player" or "Play shape when shooting the 9 ball so it's like any other shot" are examples of what I consider to be mediocre responses to the pressures of competition. They are also independent tidbits for specific situations that come up meaning you'll need to lug around a huge tool box filled with dull tools.
3) Develop the right outlooks, attitudes, and beliefs about yourself, and the purpose behind your relationship with the game. With the right outlook you can prevent many of the thoughts/pressures/emotions entirely, instead of having to deal with them perpetually. It's like playing shape instead of making so many hard shots. And there aren't hundreds of unique tools, there's an overall optimal approach that helps in nearly all situations.
I used to be a #2 guy but was fortunate enough to have been shown another way. Since then I have come to believe that if you're looking at things right there should be no negative thoughts. Therefor if there are negative thoughts, that is a sign I am looking at something wrong.
I try to keep my approach in check but when I get bogged down I reflect and try to understand where I fell out of balance and alignment. For example if I'm trying to stay focused while I have a substantial lead or skill edge the answer is rarely chanting to myself "Don't let up when you're ahead, have killer instinct" but rather to make sure I am tapped into my process goals which generate motivation regardless of the score. This is one example of a vast number I could discuss.
I hope this answers your question. I believe I'll elaborate in more depth in another form at another time, I've been invited to be a recurring voice on the Cue it Up podcast and I think this is a good format for conversations about topics like this.
Thank you uwate.
This is a very broad question and getting into it doesn't seem to like to fit well in a forum thread. I've got a lot of ideas but hadn't really talked about them much in the past as they're a little personal and people have such vastly different ideas about the mental game I tried to avoid discussing it with others. Since I've been doing bootcamps I've been talking more to others and been trying to increasingly organize my thoughts. I've already had a lot of them written out in journals but not in the right order. Some ideas can't be explained so easily in one discussion, it requires people to little by little learn new ways to conceptualize their relationship with the game. It's like trying to teach a beginner how to play pool in one hour. So I'm working on finding the right order and timeline to do my best to lead down a path that can be most easily followed. Not that I have all the answers, but I've learned a lot that helps me avoid challenges I see many people struggle with.
I'd say one goal of the mental game is to manage disruptive thoughts and feelings so you can deliver a strong performance. There are other facets like generating motivation, goal setting, and so on, but game play is a good place to start. So from what I can tell people employ one of three approaches to the mental game:
1) Denial/experience. "Bah. The mental game is new age mumbo jumbo. Shoot the balls in." I suppose this might work for some people to some extent through volume and experience. If you make enough mistakes enough times and want to win badly enough you might find ways to avoid many of the pitfalls that come along with competition.
2) Toolbelt of cliches and gimmicks. These people recognize the mental game is important but don't really know what to do about it. Their plan of attack consists of a bunch of sports cliches they've heard in movies or theories they've concocted. Things like "Play the table not the player" or "Play shape when shooting the 9 ball so it's like any other shot" are examples of what I consider to be mediocre responses to the pressures of competition. They are also independent tidbits for specific situations that come up meaning you'll need to lug around a huge tool box filled with dull tools.
3) Develop the right outlooks, attitudes, and beliefs about yourself, and the purpose behind your relationship with the game. With the right outlook you can prevent many of the thoughts/pressures/emotions entirely, instead of having to deal with them perpetually. It's like playing shape instead of making so many hard shots. And there aren't hundreds of unique tools, there's an overall optimal approach that helps in nearly all situations.
I used to be a #2 guy but was fortunate enough to have been shown another way. Since then I have come to believe that if you're looking at things right there should be no negative thoughts. Therefor if there are negative thoughts, that is a sign I am looking at something wrong.
I try to keep my approach in check but when I get bogged down I reflect and try to understand where I fell out of balance and alignment. For example if I'm trying to stay focused while I have a substantial lead or skill edge the answer is rarely chanting to myself "Don't let up when you're ahead, have killer instinct" but rather to make sure I am tapped into my process goals which generate motivation regardless of the score. This is one example of a vast number I could discuss.
I hope this answers your question. I believe I'll elaborate in more depth in another form at another time, I've been invited to be a recurring voice on the Cue it Up podcast and I think this is a good format for conversations about topics like this.
Last edited:
Very interesting to me, as I am struggling with this part of the game enormously. I know I should be able to win a lot more matches with my skill set but I don't because my mental weakness gets in the way. Especially the part about disruptive thoughts at crunch time is very regognizable to me.
I hope you'll disclose some more of that 'vast number you could discuss' !! I know I should not be hoping for any silver bullets, but it seems your knowledge and the way you describe your thoughts could be very helpful. Thanks anyway for your insightful posts.
prior post
JC, I just turned 40. The experience I wrote about occurred about 10 years ago.
Thank you hotelyorba. I actually started this post due to prompting from you in a different thread:
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=503655
So now I'll go full circle and use the last thread as another example of how an optimal outlook can help prevent negative thoughts and feelings. In my thread I pointed out how people unrealistically extrapolate on the progress they think they should make. This leads to frustration and negative thinking.
I spoke with a gentleman today who talked about how streaky he was, how inconsistent, and how frustrating it is to play well and put himself into winning positions in tournaments only to turn in a mediocre set and dog it off. I've heard variations of this from many players. Some hate to play bad when they play a better player and say "I don't mind losing, I just want to play my game".
But all of these outlooks have a lot of expectations and assumptions built in. The assumption that they should be able to play at the top of their range all of the time. The expectation they should be able to 'play the table' and not be affected by their opponents.
Where did these ideas come from? Everyone else in the world has ups and downs. Everyone else in the world is intimidated by their opponents at times. So why do they think they can just decide in their heads "I should be able to be consistent and unaffected by pressure" and think that's realistic?!? That does not make sense.
OK, so I've also said I don't care if beliefs are true or not, I care whether they are practical. So let's test those beliefs. Do they help? I don't think so. Players that opt for the 'Decide to will themselves consistent and impervious to pressure' fall short of this, and they become frustrated, discouraged, self critical, and so on. They get hung up because they can't understand why they are struggling to do what they decided to do and in their mind should be easy. It's akin to someone deciding that since they've made the 9 on the break before there should be a way they can break it in every time, and then practicing 9 ball breaks for many years with constant dismay they can't figure out how to make that come to pass. In short, it's an impossible goal, and impossible goals aren't useful.
Instead I believe in a reality based approach to pool. I challenge every assumption and expectation. I seem to have ups and downs, so rather than denying that, I accept it. My game plan is simple: "Get up, stay up". When I'm dogging it and being run over I know that it's going to be ugly, so I accept that it's not my turn to run the table over. Instead my best option is to not make it worse. I'm ok with dogging it. I've done it a million times and will do it a million more. And just be being ok with it I don't pour gas on the fire by getting despairing or critical or angry. I've budgeted for this and I have a plan. I just do what's in front of me and keep breathing, and focus on making my worst game not any worse than it has to be. I've seen it turn around often enough to know I can hang in there and it will turn at some point. Maybe not in time to win this set but I'll keep trying. So I try to minimize the amount of time I spend on my back. Then when I catch a gear I don't take it for granted and think it's me from here on out. I know dead stroke is fickle so I respect it and try to keep it going as long as possible. I keep calm, keep making good decisions, keep focused, and I don't start freewheeling thinking I'm entitled to this feeling.
I've beaten players who play as good as me and have higher high gears because at the higher levels it's not about who plays best at their peak, it's about who manages the swings better. If I lose less games when I'm struggling and win more when I'm in stroke then even though the tides can change, in the long run I'll edge ahead through emotional management. And even this understanding of how to win against good players is a reality based approach, because if people think they're going to play a top player and just run them over all day long they are in for an unpleasant surprise when that player fights back and ruins their plan. You may be able to knockout punch your local sparring partner but good luck making a living hitting people once and hoping they stay down.
I'm getting carried away but the main point I'm trying to make is that I really try to be realistic and accepting of my humanity which frees me to make the best decisions off of a realistic assessment of where I'm at and what the best play is. Most players are borderline delusional and as a result make poor decisions and always feel frustration, fear, and tremendous pressure because the truth is always just below the surface waiting to burst their bubble.
Somehow this post is both too long and not nearly long enough. I'm just not sure I can really explain my approach to competition in a forum format. But if you're able to use anything I've shared to help you on your way then godspeed!
JC, I just turned 40. The experience I wrote about occurred about 10 years ago.
Thank you hotelyorba. I actually started this post due to prompting from you in a different thread:
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=503655
So now I'll go full circle and use the last thread as another example of how an optimal outlook can help prevent negative thoughts and feelings. In my thread I pointed out how people unrealistically extrapolate on the progress they think they should make. This leads to frustration and negative thinking.
I spoke with a gentleman today who talked about how streaky he was, how inconsistent, and how frustrating it is to play well and put himself into winning positions in tournaments only to turn in a mediocre set and dog it off. I've heard variations of this from many players. Some hate to play bad when they play a better player and say "I don't mind losing, I just want to play my game".
But all of these outlooks have a lot of expectations and assumptions built in. The assumption that they should be able to play at the top of their range all of the time. The expectation they should be able to 'play the table' and not be affected by their opponents.
Where did these ideas come from? Everyone else in the world has ups and downs. Everyone else in the world is intimidated by their opponents at times. So why do they think they can just decide in their heads "I should be able to be consistent and unaffected by pressure" and think that's realistic?!? That does not make sense.
OK, so I've also said I don't care if beliefs are true or not, I care whether they are practical. So let's test those beliefs. Do they help? I don't think so. Players that opt for the 'Decide to will themselves consistent and impervious to pressure' fall short of this, and they become frustrated, discouraged, self critical, and so on. They get hung up because they can't understand why they are struggling to do what they decided to do and in their mind should be easy. It's akin to someone deciding that since they've made the 9 on the break before there should be a way they can break it in every time, and then practicing 9 ball breaks for many years with constant dismay they can't figure out how to make that come to pass. In short, it's an impossible goal, and impossible goals aren't useful.
Instead I believe in a reality based approach to pool. I challenge every assumption and expectation. I seem to have ups and downs, so rather than denying that, I accept it. My game plan is simple: "Get up, stay up". When I'm dogging it and being run over I know that it's going to be ugly, so I accept that it's not my turn to run the table over. Instead my best option is to not make it worse. I'm ok with dogging it. I've done it a million times and will do it a million more. And just be being ok with it I don't pour gas on the fire by getting despairing or critical or angry. I've budgeted for this and I have a plan. I just do what's in front of me and keep breathing, and focus on making my worst game not any worse than it has to be. I've seen it turn around often enough to know I can hang in there and it will turn at some point. Maybe not in time to win this set but I'll keep trying. So I try to minimize the amount of time I spend on my back. Then when I catch a gear I don't take it for granted and think it's me from here on out. I know dead stroke is fickle so I respect it and try to keep it going as long as possible. I keep calm, keep making good decisions, keep focused, and I don't start freewheeling thinking I'm entitled to this feeling.
I've beaten players who play as good as me and have higher high gears because at the higher levels it's not about who plays best at their peak, it's about who manages the swings better. If I lose less games when I'm struggling and win more when I'm in stroke then even though the tides can change, in the long run I'll edge ahead through emotional management. And even this understanding of how to win against good players is a reality based approach, because if people think they're going to play a top player and just run them over all day long they are in for an unpleasant surprise when that player fights back and ruins their plan. You may be able to knockout punch your local sparring partner but good luck making a living hitting people once and hoping they stay down.
I'm getting carried away but the main point I'm trying to make is that I really try to be realistic and accepting of my humanity which frees me to make the best decisions off of a realistic assessment of where I'm at and what the best play is. Most players are borderline delusional and as a result make poor decisions and always feel frustration, fear, and tremendous pressure because the truth is always just below the surface waiting to burst their bubble.
Somehow this post is both too long and not nearly long enough. I'm just not sure I can really explain my approach to competition in a forum format. But if you're able to use anything I've shared to help you on your way then godspeed!
Yes, age is very important. Not as important as health but, age is very important.
Putting age and health aside, I doubt many people with families and a house payment, car payments, insurance, trying to save for kids college...etc...etc will be trying to actually do what the OP suggest.
I know I had to "choose" between pool and taking care of my family while at the same time, securing their future. IMO, it's virtually impossible for most to do both.
I may be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.
Jeff
Another great post, Tin Man. I think it opened my eyes to the fact that I too am expecting of myself to always play as good as I do when I'm in stroke. You're saying that that is just too much to expect of yourself, and while I think I always knew that to some subconscious extent, your post made it more consciously clear to me.
I think the thing I struggle with most though, is those disruptive thoughts that pop in my head during a competition match, like "I'm sure I'm gonna miss ... you'll see". They will usually come after I miss an easy one. Or I'll have some bad rolls and then decide that I attract bad luck, so I'll get very cautious with my position play which means of course I'll almost never be in position, which adds to the feeling of bad luck... I just wish I would find some practical solution to this, because I do know that I'm doing it to myself.
all or nothing
I do recommend people doing what I suggest. But to be clear I didn't suggest that people quit their jobs or go all in on pool disproportionately. The point of this thread that seems to be a hard one to make is that I want people to maximize the impact they make with the resources they have. People seem to be so all or nothing that if they can't do everything they decide to do nothing. All I'm trying to say is if someone has 5-10 hours a week they'll get more out of them if they decide to get fired up and use them strategically rather than saying it's not enough so why bother trying.
It's like saving for retirement. If someone is in their 20s and newly married things are tight. You don't tell them "You don't have enough money to invest right now so don't bother, wait until you are making six figures then you can just start making huge deposits into a 401K". Of course not! You tell them "Even small investments can add up to big numbers over time due to compounding interest, and just as importantly it starts you on the right path with your habits and self image. So don't worry if it doesn't look like much, start investing even $10 a week and you'll be glad you did".
That is what I'm telling people. If you are a competitor then don't buy lotto tickets and decide the only way you can play well is if you suddenly had unlimited resources. Instead take the darn 5-10 hours a week and do something with them. The hardest part is not following the herd that tells you it's a waste of effort. If you want to quit pool quit then go ahead and quit pool, fine, but don't quit pool mentally while continuing to put in 10 hours a week like a zombie. If you're not a competitor and play recreationally that is fine, but that should be by choice, not by defeat.
I do recommend people doing what I suggest. But to be clear I didn't suggest that people quit their jobs or go all in on pool disproportionately. The point of this thread that seems to be a hard one to make is that I want people to maximize the impact they make with the resources they have. People seem to be so all or nothing that if they can't do everything they decide to do nothing. All I'm trying to say is if someone has 5-10 hours a week they'll get more out of them if they decide to get fired up and use them strategically rather than saying it's not enough so why bother trying.
It's like saving for retirement. If someone is in their 20s and newly married things are tight. You don't tell them "You don't have enough money to invest right now so don't bother, wait until you are making six figures then you can just start making huge deposits into a 401K". Of course not! You tell them "Even small investments can add up to big numbers over time due to compounding interest, and just as importantly it starts you on the right path with your habits and self image. So don't worry if it doesn't look like much, start investing even $10 a week and you'll be glad you did".
That is what I'm telling people. If you are a competitor then don't buy lotto tickets and decide the only way you can play well is if you suddenly had unlimited resources. Instead take the darn 5-10 hours a week and do something with them. The hardest part is not following the herd that tells you it's a waste of effort. If you want to quit pool quit then go ahead and quit pool, fine, but don't quit pool mentally while continuing to put in 10 hours a week like a zombie. If you're not a competitor and play recreationally that is fine, but that should be by choice, not by defeat.
I can see ^^^^^^^^^ advice seeming more attainable to players that don't live and breath pool.
As for quitting, lol....I had to because my career was to demanding. I had to choose between pool and sleep for a number of years. Family and 70 hour work weeks does that to folks.
I wasn't trying to put your post, you....or anyone down.
I was just trying to keep a realistic prospective for the average Joe.
I play with several people that would LOVE, I mean absolutely LOVE to do exactly what you described in your OP but, they only get about an hour on Saturdays to hit balls.
One of them was at my place. We was looking at some stuff in the for sale section and then browsed the forum for a second and saw your post. That's when my buddy said, dang...lol...
Anyways, after he left, I got to thinking about how many other people would read that and think, "dang, I don't have but one hour a week"...
Jeff
Fair enough
Fair enough Jeff. I don’t dispute there are times in ones life when you have to hang up the cue. If you can’t play there is no shame in not playing. I was addressing the masses of people I see putting in time without purpose. It’s like there are two things. How much time you have and what you do with it. Too many people throw away the time they have thinking it’s not enough. In the end we’re not competing with each other, were competing with ourselves, and however much time we have if we do something with it we’ll be better off than if we don’t.
Fair enough Jeff. I don’t dispute there are times in ones life when you have to hang up the cue. If you can’t play there is no shame in not playing. I was addressing the masses of people I see putting in time without purpose. It’s like there are two things. How much time you have and what you do with it. Too many people throw away the time they have thinking it’s not enough. In the end we’re not competing with each other, were competing with ourselves, and however much time we have if we do something with it we’ll be better off than if we don’t.
Oh, I agree x1000.
Its always good to have someone to remind us that we "may" be pissing-in-the-wind by being on cruise control and just going through the motions. Yep, I've been guilty of that to many times.
I wish I had my health back not to mention, some years...lol... ah...youth, it's wasted on the young..
Jeff
BTW, I enjoy reading your posts. They make me feel guilty at times though...lol.. us lazy people don't like for the go getters to make us realize just how much time we have wasted.
This is the best post I have read on this board in a long time.
kollegedave
kollegedave
I think you're way off base about "what you know" the difference between the speed of pros is huge, if you're the 5th best pro in any tournament, chances are you're not eating at the end of the week. Tin man had a great post about his personal growth as a player and all you did was try to diminish it like it's that easy.
Saying and doing are completely different things and I applaud him for taking the time to dedicate himself to something he truly loves.
I was at Turningstone but didnt want to say hi and good luck because I dont like to bother people while they are working.
I really liked this thread and I applaud TinMan for attempting what everyone of us wish they could do. I don't want to draw the attention from TinMan on myself but I do have a coach now but with the limited table time I have, we have found ways to keep the "pressure elastic" stretched at all times.
TinMan is so right with this! Gotta capitalize with limited resources we have.
TinMan is so right with this! Gotta capitalize with limited resources we have.
Last edited:
I was at a tournament this weekend and I showed my traveling buddy some of your recent posts on AZ. In particular we ended up discussing emotional management as well as your previous posts on getting equity from being a slight underdog, improving consistency and the nugget of advice you gave on drawing back 4-6 inches using a ghost ball stop shot. Thanks again for taking the time to post this instructional material.
What you write here about budgeting for what will happen when you are dogging it and having a plan reminds me of how on top of visualizing moments of how to win under pressure you also have to visualize and plan for moments when you are dogging it too.
At that tournament this weekend I observed a common thread in how players view their performances. In my own matches I often felt like I was playing poorly, only to have others tell me I didn't play bad just made a few mistakes. Then I watched a few matches and afterwards the players told me they were playing so terrible, but from my perspective it didn't look like they were playing bad just making a few errors here and there but overall pretty solid.
There are so many layers of mental toughness, especially when the data coming into your brain is often being evaluated with distorted perception.
What you write here about budgeting for what will happen when you are dogging it and having a plan reminds me of how on top of visualizing moments of how to win under pressure you also have to visualize and plan for moments when you are dogging it too.
At that tournament this weekend I observed a common thread in how players view their performances. In my own matches I often felt like I was playing poorly, only to have others tell me I didn't play bad just made a few mistakes. Then I watched a few matches and afterwards the players told me they were playing so terrible, but from my perspective it didn't look like they were playing bad just making a few errors here and there but overall pretty solid.
There are so many layers of mental toughness, especially when the data coming into your brain is often being evaluated with distorted perception.