John Schmidt at BullShooters

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bbb

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AtLarge said:
If someone was keeping track of all his runs, I haven't heard about it yet. .
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this was posted bt frmn on onepocket.org
....
Yesterday April 17 was Jon's last day. He had 3 more runs over 100 with the highest being 172. His totals for 22 days of play averaging 6 hours a day: 132 hours 75 runs over 100 over 200 14 over 300 6 over 400 1 with the high being 464. He averaged approximately 1100 to 1200 balls a day, and he gave maximum effort whether the run was 14 balls or 400. He made the last 4 weeks at BullShooters very exciting. Good luck to John next week at the US Open 9ball.
 
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AtLarge

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Here's the list of John's century runs (≥100) at Bull Shooters over the past 4 weeks, taken from their Facebook page (with slight editing). The runs each day are in the order in which they occurred.

Wed. 3/20/2019 -- 179, 146, 132, 127, 384
Thurs. 3/21 -- 119, 145, 108, 100, 228
Fri. 3/22 -- Rest Day
Sat. 3/23 -- Rest Day

Sun. 3/24 -- 197, 141, 156, 141, 164
Mon. 3/25 -- 141, 193, 140, 112
Tues. 3/26 -- 106, 154, 183, 114
Wed. 3/27 -- 125, 141, 141, 110
Thurs. 3/28 -- 197, 190, 113
Fri. 3/29 -- Rest Day
Sat. 3/30 -- Rest Day

Sun. 3/31 -- 138, 144, 175, 168
Mon. 4/1 -- 106, 111, 293, 113
Tues. 4/2 -- 100, 141, 175, 120, 227, 123
Wed. 4/3 -- 204, 114, 176
Thurs. 4/4 -- 108, 180, 113
Fri. 4/5 -- 113, 154 (Only 2 hours of play)
Sat. 4/6 -- Rest Day

Sun. 4/7 -- 283, 350
Mon. 4/8 -- 134
Tues. 4/9 -- 150, 390
Wed. 4/10 -- 224, 112
Thurs. 4/11 -- 127, 106, 169, 140
Fri. 4/12 -- 237, 104
Sat. 4/13 -- 126, 124 (short day)

Sun. 4/14 -- 210+ (to be continued on 4/15)
Mon. 4/15 -- 395 (210+185), 210, 127, 132, 320
Tues. 4/16 -- 168, 148, 190, 108, 464
Wed. 4/17 -- 172, 169, 169

Summarizing these runs:
  • 100-149 -- 44 runs
    150-199 -- 22
    200-299 -- 8
    300-399 -- 5
    400+ -- 1
    Total 100+ -- 80
 
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Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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AtLarge said:
...
Summarizing these runs:
  • 100-149 -- 44 runs
    150-199 -- 22
    200-299 -- 8
    300-399 -- 5
    400+ -- 1
    Total 100+ -- 80
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Applying my rough estimate that he's 25% to run 100 more from any position, with 80 runs of at least 100, you would expect 20 to go past 200 (actual 14), 5 past 300 (actual 6) and 1.2 runs past 400 (actual 1). I think 25% for the next 100 is not far off.

Ritchie Florence used to propose 10 tries to run 100 for even money. John could offer 3 tries, it seems. Similarly, if John gets to 427 three more times, he is favored to get to 527. Theoretically.
 
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johnnysd

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Bob Jewett said:
Applying my rough estimate that he's 25% to run 100 more from any position, with 80 runs of at least 100, you would expect 20 to go past 200 (actual 14), 5 past 300 (actual 6) and 1.2 runs past 400 (actual 1). I think 25% for the next 100 is not far off.

Ritchie Florence used to propose 10 tries to run 100 for even money. John could offer 3 tries, it seems. Similarly, if John gets to 427 three more times, he is favored to get to 527. Theoretically.
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It was pretty amazing to watch. 464 is an amazing accomplishment. I think if he tries again he should do it on a 4x8, though I am not sure if that will help him much with his style.

From my watching I noticed that he was in "danger" far more often once got to a high number say 250 or more. I think he was facing 2-3 shots at least that you would say even he would only make say 90% of the time and a few even lower than that. In the last 100 balls, if he faces 16 shots like that, that's about 18.5% to achieve the 527 bu then being conservative say he is 99.5% to make all other shots so making all 84 other balls happens only 35-40% of the time, which puts him around 11% and then he probably scratches on 1 to 2% of his break shots because he hits them so hard, so I would think realistically he is about 10% statistically,

However the pressure of that last 100 balls is monumental so he will get out of shape more often probably thanwhat I calculated above. My observation is empirical, but the odds for each successive 100 are in no way consistent. Each 100 gets significantly harder, and less likely statistically. 464 shows he CAN do it, but it is still a monumental task and not really as close as it would seem. Mosconi faced no pressure barrier. He was just playing. Funny thing is that if he does break it, the odds on the 100 past the 527 probably go way up just from all the pressure going away and him being in the "zone" so to speak so if he does it, I would say he might break it by a fair margin.

I want no one to think I am criticizing him in any way. I was rooting for him to do it and he is an amazing straight pool player.
 
L I F D 1

L I F D 1

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HERE'S THE THING

john is out there several hours each day running more balls than I can count.
he's hot on this, as hot as can be.

when willie mosconi ran that 526, he was out with his wife just getting some fresh air.
He Was Cold.
willie and his wife stopped by to see the guys and maybe fool around on the table little bit.

any comments
 
1pocket

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I've really enjoyed watching John Schmidt, and I hope someone sponsors him to get back to it soon -- thank you again Bull Shooters and Tres Kane and whoever else made this possible!!!! And of course the biggest thank you to John Schmidt!!

I first met John when he came with a buddy of his (maybe a firefighter if I recall correctly) to Country Club Billiards in Chelmsford MA, kind of early in his pro career. I think we even played one game of One Pocket when he realized he could make more money playing better players than me, so he set me up with his travel partner lol.

Like some of the others posting here, I started pool with straight pool -- it was the main game by which I built my own game, limited as it turned out to be lol. (My high run of 70 pales in this crowd lol)

Something I noticed with John's positioning is how he almost NEVER accidentally got too close up on a ball to a point where he lost his position -- he kept space really, really well.

Many have already mentioned how firmly John hit most of his break shots -- being more of a big splash breaker than a nibbler around the stack.

He also regularly used "short side" position for shots into the far corners to control the cue ball the way he wanted to. That surprised me too.

All three of these things to me show a different style of straight pool than what I foggily remember from watching great players back in the mid 70's play. I'm interested in what you guys think -- does John play the game like your remember or is he playing a more modern style? (Well there were players like Larry Lisciotti that played great straight pool and more wide open back then too, that is true :smile: )
 
measureman

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L I F D 1 said:
HERE'S THE THING

john is out there several hours each day running more balls than I can count.
he's hot on this, as hot as can be.

when willie mosconi ran that 526, he was out with his wife just getting some fresh air.
He Was Cold.
willie and his wife stopped by to see the guys and maybe fool around on the table little bit.

any comments
Click to expand...

Willie was there doing a paid exhibition.
 
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ChrisinNC

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1pocket said:
I've really enjoyed watching John Schmidt, and I hope someone sponsors him to get back to it soon -- thank you again Bull Shooters and Tres Kane and whoever else made this possible!!!! And of course the biggest thank you to John Schmidt!!

I first met John when he came with a buddy of his (maybe a firefighter if I recall correctly) to Country Club Billiards in Chelmsford MA, kind of early in his pro career. I think we even played one game of One Pocket when he realized he could make more money playing better players than me, so he set me up with his travel partner lol.

Like some of the others posting here, I started pool with straight pool -- it was the main game by which I built my own game, limited as it turned out to be lol. (My high run of 70 pales in this crowd lol)

Something I noticed with John's positioning is how he almost NEVER accidentally got too close up on a ball to a point where he lost his position -- he kept space really, really well.

Many have already mentioned how firmly John hit most of his break shots -- being more of a big splash breaker than a nibbler around the stack.

He also regularly used "short side" position for shots into the far corners to control the cue ball the way he wanted to. That surprised me too.

All three of these things to me show a different style of straight pool than what I foggily remember from watching great players back in the mid 70's play. I'm interested in what you guys think -- does John play the game like your remember or is he playing a more modern style? (Well there were players like Larry Lisciotti that played great straight pool and more wide open back then too, that is true :smile: )
Click to expand...
I don't think you'd see him playing position for as many shots in the far corners from the foot (rack end) of the table, if he was playing on a table with 4-1/2" or tighter corner pockets.
 
L I F D 1

L I F D 1

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measureman said:
Willie was there doing a paid exhibition.
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close enough to my description

was he exercising 4 - 6 hours a day - no

he walked in and did what he does, he was carefree about it not knowing he would set a world record.

but, what if willie mosconi prepared, months in advance, relentlessly, everyday, over and over

he was nonchalant about the expo, just plain ole' willie mosconi, stepping up, as usual, nothing special, no big deal.
 
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ChrisinNC

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AtLarge said:
Geesh, John just ran 395 (on a carry-over run that apparently started yesterday with 210 and continued today). He missed an easy 1-ball that looked like it skidded.
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A carry-over run? Seems a little strange - like he shouldn't even start a run if he's within 2-3 hours of the time he's planning or required to stop for the day/night.

Anybody have any details on how his 450 or 464 run ended? I can't imagine the pressure he must have been feeling by that point!
 
alstl

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ChrisinNC said:
A carry-over run? Seems a little strange - like he shouldn't even start a run if he's within 2-3 hours of the time he's planning or required to stop for the day/night.

Anybody have any details on how his 450 or 464 run ended? I can't imagine the pressure he must have been feeling by that point!
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Missed a long cut shot on the 2 ball with cue ball near the head rail following a break shot.
 
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AtLarge

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ChrisinNC said:
A carry-over run? Seems a little strange - like he shouldn't even start a run if he's within 2-3 hours of the time he's planning or required to stop for the day/night.

Anybody have any details on how his 450 or 464 run ended? I can't imagine the pressure he must have been feeling by that point!
Click to expand...

The first 210 of the carry-over 395 was on Masters Sunday. John is a good golfer. Perhaps he quit to watch the golf. It turned out to be a pretty significant day in golf history.

The 464 ended by missing a long shot. He had made 2 balls on the break shot for rack #34 (#33 by their count at the time), but the CB drew off the pile up near the left pocket on the head rail (left looking from head to foot). His only real shots were long ones to the right foot pocket on either of two balls to the right of the racking area, He chose the 2-ball, which was closer to the pocket but at a slightly greater cut angle (cutting to the right). He undercut it.

The 464 started after he had been playing for about 5 hours. His schedule was for roughly 6-hour days. By what you say about stopping, he would not have run the 464.
 
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mikemosconi

mikemosconi

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ChrisinNC said:
A carry-over run? Seems a little strange - like he shouldn't even start a run if he's within 2-3 hours of the time he's planning or required to stop for the day/night.

Anybody have any details on how his 450 or 464 run ended? I can't imagine the pressure he must have been feeling by that point!
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Carry over runs DON'T COUNT- so somebody can run 10 balls a day, stop and do that for 57 days in a row and say they have a new record??
 
Bob Jewett

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mikemosconi said:
Carry over runs DON'T COUNT- so somebody can run 10 balls a day, stop and do that for 57 days in a row and say they have a new record??
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Have you considered that Willie Mosconi probably participated in some World Championship matches that had a carry-over format? Would such championships be invalid in your view?
 
mikemosconi

mikemosconi

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Bob Jewett said:
Have you considered that Willie Mosconi probably participated in some World Championship matches that had a carry-over format? Would such championships be invalid in your view?
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Two entirely different comparisons- and that is very obvious- carry over blocks in 14.1 back then consisted of the accumulation of pocketed balls toward a set total match win number of say1500. THAT was not a format used to see how many balls somebody can run in a non competitive situation, and runs in block format were NOT added together on consecutive innings over several days to determine run totals towards any run records- pocketed balls were added only towards total ball count for the pre determined winning total for a match.

Again, use my analaogy- if somebody runs 10 balls a day, stops, and picks up the next day and does that for 57 days- YOU say that person set the new total run record for 14.1?? I Don't!!

I am all for this guy running to a new record- no issue- but let's not now start accepting that he can stop one day and pick up the next day- come on!! If some governing body out there says that is OK, then I'll start my 10 ball a day scenario tomorrow and guarantee that even I can run 570 THAT way over my lifetime.
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

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mikemosconi said:
Two entirely different comparisons- and that is very obvious- carry over blocks in 14.1 back then consisted of the accumulation of pocketed balls toward a set total match win number of say1500. THAT was not a format used to see how many balls somebody can run in a non competitive situation, and runs in block format were NOT added together on consecutive innings over several days to determine run totals towards any run records- pocketed balls were added only towards total ball count for the pre determined winning total for a match.

Again, use my analaogy- if somebody runs 10 balls a day, stops, and picks up the next day and does that for 57 days- YOU say that person set the new total run record for 14.1?? I Don't!!

I am all for this guy running to a new record- no issue- but let's not now start accepting that he can stop one day and pick up the next day- come on!! If some governing body out there says that is OK, then I'll start my 10 ball a day scenario tomorrow and guarantee that even I can run 570 THAT way over my lifetime.
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Although your scenario of 10 a day is goofy, I'll play along. A top pro still couldn't beat the 526 your way. Because you have to mark the balls when you quit for the day after running your 10. And resume the same position the next day. The shots would be the same as compared to doing it in one session. Its not starting from a new BIH rack every day.
 
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