So what about tight pockets?

K

King T

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well...,

Shuddy said:
It’s not difficult to keep tables to exact tolerances. Use templates. World Snooker uses standard templates for every table install. There’s no measuring being done. Either the pockets fit the template or they don’t.
Click to expand...

Why not just show up and play? Bowlers play on different oil patterns at every event and golfers play on all kind of crazy course layouts, both of those professionals just show up and play.

Lets play on different tables too, bring back AMF, Kasson, Connelly, Olhausen and then Gold Crown and Diamond. If you call yourself a professional, make the professonal adjustment, show up and play!
 
G

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
King T said:
Why not just show up and play? Bowlers play on different oil patterns at every event and golfers play on all kind of crazy course layouts, both of those professionals just show up and play.

Lets play on different tables too, bring back AMF, Kasson, Connelly, Olhausen and then Gold Crown and Diamond. If you call yourself a professional, make the professonal adjustment, show up and play!
Click to expand...
Tend to agree here. Adjusting is part of being a good player. What did Skinny Mick say, "Can't always get what you want....."? ;)
 
MattPoland

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don’t mind tight pockets. Deep shelves can bother me. Seeing a good hit jaw up is unnerving. Likewise seeing a hanger in so deep that the only option is to draw back is annoying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
D

DarkPoseidon6

Registered
I totally agree with this. One thing I've found playing on tables with tight pockets is that it makes me play to the table and I find myself constantly overthinking the situation in front of me, even questioning if a certain shot is going to be rejected, especially if the pockets have deep shelves. It starts to feel more like target practice and not pool.
 
highkarate

highkarate

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For amateurs, who cares. Play on whatever you want. For pros, I think the tighter the better. I'm with Karl Boyes, who says you need misses to create drama. The tighter the pocket, the more misses. From a spectator value standpoint, tighter is better.
 
jviss

jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
King T said:
Why not just show up and play? Bowlers play on different oil patterns at every event and golfers play on all kind of crazy course layouts, both of those professionals just show up and play.

Lets play on different tables too, bring back AMF, Kasson, Connelly, Olhausen and then Gold Crown and Diamond. If you call yourself a professional, make the professonal adjustment, show up and play!
Click to expand...

Great, but that comment has nothing at all to do with this discussion! The pros do just show up and play, don't they? They also don't have a lot to say about pocket sizes on the tables they play on, as far as I can tell. And that has nothing to do with the pocket size of home tables or billiard hall tables.

Are you saying that pro pool players refuse to show up and play because of pocket size? (I don't think so.)

I think the thing is that people are noticing a trend, a fad, of tighter pockets and deeper shelves, and think it's distorting the game, as do I. I'd prefer to see better scores, longer runs, maybe longer races, and being able to compare my performance on a table with the same specs.

You don't see a lot of variation in other pro sports' equipment, as far as I know, like tennis ('though grass or clay), hockey, football, soccer, table tennis, and so on.

Maybe I have this wrong, I admit. I wonder what sports we could legitimately compare to pool? There's the whole universe of billiard games, internationally: table tennis; foosball (yes, there's pro foosball!); rod hockey; nok hokey; tiddlywinks; darts; and so on.

I also concede that perhaps the pro pool game had gotten too boring or predictable with 5" pockets: everyone runs the break, and it becomes like tic-tac-toe.
 
K

KenRobbins

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tight pockets don't lie to you and make you focus more. I always hear the comment about not being able to play shape with tighter pockets. The extended rails in the pocket prevent you from scratching vs a regular pocket, which you can use that extra rail surface to play shape if needed, if you get out of shape. But, you definitely have to be able to shoot straight. It just feels different firing those balls into tighter pockets. It's like a high. lol

If the pocket is to tight for you, play on loose pockets. Simple as that.
 
Shuddy

Shuddy

Diamond Dave’s babysitter
Silver Member
King T said:
Why not just show up and play? Bowlers play on different oil patterns at every event and golfers play on all kind of crazy course layouts, both of those professionals just show up and play.

Lets play on different tables too, bring back AMF, Kasson, Connelly, Olhausen and then Gold Crown and Diamond. If you call yourself a professional, make the professonal adjustment, show up and play!
Click to expand...

Bowlers don’t play with different sized pins or lanes of different lengths, and the patterns aren’t intentionally different. Golf is intentionally played in a natural environment and that environment is intended to be part of the challenge. However, they don’t play with different size holes.

And you could have every tournament played on Diamond pro cut with Simonis 860 and you’d still have to make adjustments from tournament to tournament, and table to table.
 
K

King T

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Your incorrect.

Shuddy said:
Bowlers don’t play with different sized pins or lanes of different lengths, and the patterns aren’t intentionally different. Golf is intentionally played in a natural environment and that environment is intended to be part of the challenge. However, they don’t play with different size holes.

And you could have every tournament played on Diamond pro cut with Simonis 860 and you’d still have to make adjustments from tournament to tournament, and table to table.
Click to expand...

Bowling oil patterns are changed every week and that is by design. The different oil patterns are intended to challenge the players and make the game more competitive and it works.
 
T

tableroll

Rolling Thunder
Silver Member
MattPoland said:
I don’t mind tight pockets. Deep shelves can bother me. Seeing a good hit jaw up is unnerving. Likewise seeing a hanger in so deep that the only option is to draw back is annoying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

Your opponent has the same difficulty as you do. No advantage to anyone!
 
D

DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DarkPoseidon6 said:
So I'm new here but had to vent and get a seasoned opinion from everyone here after I put my two cents in about this, which I know has been beaten to death many times.

Maybe I'm old-school, but I don't see how tight pockets are better for the game. I've been playing pool (8-ball mostly with some 9-ball) for the better part of 30 years. I've played on all sorts of tables of all sorts of dimensions, pocket cuts, cloth, etc, and ran out my fare share over the years, won many games, blah, blah. And whatever.....

But I've noticed over the years that the trend is that so many players that own tables and even certain teams on league have been transitioning over to tables with tight pockets. Why is this? Is this really the right direction to go with the game?

I'm sure there are many players that will disagree with me, but in my experience, I don't think tight pockets are going to help the game and are really not for the American games, but rather it's something that lends itself to snooker or even Russian billiards. Those games are all about accuracy for the most part, and not necessarily about positioning AS MUCH as the American games (especially 8 and 9 ball).

Thing about playing 8-ball and (any rotational game especially) on a tight pocket table is that there is so much sacrifice for position in place of pocketing the ball, and the worst part about pocketing a ball with a deep shelf or tight pocket is the ultimate chance that the object ball will rattle in the pocket and sit there for the opposing player to have a freebe. You all know this, sure, but how can you just accept this as part of the game?

I've watched the Mosconi Cup for many years and have seen pro player's matches wasted by some nonsense pocket rejection. It's sad even on an amateur level because I've seen it on my home table that actually has tight pockets and on some public tables (certain bar teams tightened up the pockets at their place) and someone made a great shot and yet because there was spin on the ball, it got rejected and sat there in the pocket. How would anyone think this is even legitimate?

So many shooters nowadays think that the tight pocket is the way to go. I don't agree. And I don't even agree with that even on the pro level. You see that shot in this year's cup by Shaw that was clearly a made shot right down in the throat of the pocket and yet it was rejected because of spin on the ball to get position?

Even take Shane, (which is one of my favorite pro players). He said in TAR that the tight pocket table is really made for one pocket. I agree and feel that it's NOT meant for a rotational game, and even 8-ball at that.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

Personally its very simple for me. At some point I'm going to step into the 100mph cage and when that happens if all I've seen are 70mph pitches, I'm screwed. So I try to only practice at 100mph that everything else seems easy. There are techniques of play that would make a lot of your concerns irrelevant. For instance, shoot soft and get plenty of angle, avoid side pockets whenever possible..etc.
 
D

DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
King T said:
Why not just show up and play? Bowlers play on different oil patterns at every event and golfers play on all kind of crazy course layouts, both of those professionals just show up and play.

Lets play on different tables too, bring back AMF, Kasson, Connelly, Olhausen and then Gold Crown and Diamond. If you call yourself a professional, make the professonal adjustment, show up and play!
Click to expand...

I think we have to be more specific. Oil patterns and extreme dog legs are more like the cloth. It would be like screwing with the Hole size in golf, which they do not do, or make the bowling pins bigger or less than 10, they don't do that either. Pocket size is in pool is more important than a golf layout or a cheetah pattern.
 
Bavafongoul

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Let set things straight.

Tight pockets are not better for the game.....pool.

Larger pockets are just easier and pocketing object balls is fun.

Your hardest shots made on a table with big pockets will in all likelihood miss.

Now that’s not as much fun as making a run of the table which just is easier.

But....like with all things....the best competitors enjoy doing what others aren’t able.

Tight pockets distinguish your pool skills & most strong players enjoy the challenge, at least I do.


Knowing that my opponent has a higher probability of missing shots encourages me to try harder
and so running the remaining balls after my opponent misses just elevates my level of satisfaction.

I enjoy the most challenging conditions to compete in anything. I think it’s a stronger motivator to
succeed and so winning becomes all the more rewarding. But that isn’t good for the future of pool.

Here’s a comparable tip.....before you play from the championship tees at Pebble Beach, you better
be a single digit handicap because it ain’t enjoyable otherwise. I know that to be true. I had a NCGA
Index of 14.6 when I played the course. My twosome joined another twosome that was regulars at
Pebble and so we played from the back tees since it was their preference. That 14 handicap turned
into a round of 98 playing from the back tees which was not really an enjoyable round of golf for me.

I play golf to have fun and lots of people are the same way about playing pool. But if I had a handicap
of 4 like the other golfers I played with that day, my round of golf would have more enjoyable & lower.

Tight pockets are like the back tees at Pebble. It is definitely not for everyone and if you do not possess
a strong game, playing golf is just not as enjoyable as you’d otherwise prefer. The same applies to pool.
If we want the game to grow in popularity, tight pockets do not contribute to accomplishing that objective.


Matt B.
 
Last edited:
R

RiverCity

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
garczar said:
Tend to agree here. Adjusting is part of being a good player. What did Skinny Mick say, "Can't always get what you want....."? ;)
Click to expand...

He also suggested a great way of matching up...

"If you try sometime, you might find, you get what you need"

:thumbup:
 
MattPoland

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
tableroll said:
Your opponent has the same difficulty as you do. No advantage to anyone!
Click to expand...


I agree. I wouldn’t use it as an excuse in a match. But equally annoying doesn’t mean less annoying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Fatboy

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Faster cloth is what started the trend of tighter pockets in the late 80’s.

For one pocket tight pockets are cool.

What I’d like to see is 21oz Stevens Cloth and big pockets again-ain’t gonna happen.

Those are my brief thoughts, I could write pages about this topic-I’ll spare the noise and stick with what I said.

Best
Fatboy
 
Straightpool_99

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
DarkPoseidon6 said:
So I'm new here but had to vent and get a seasoned opinion from everyone here after I put my two cents in about this, which I know has been beaten to death many times.

Maybe I'm old-school, but I don't see how tight pockets are better for the game. I've been playing pool (8-ball mostly with some 9-ball) for the better part of 30 years. I've played on all sorts of tables of all sorts of dimensions, pocket cuts, cloth, etc, and ran out my fare share over the years, won many games, blah, blah. And whatever.....

But I've noticed over the years that the trend is that so many players that own tables and even certain teams on league have been transitioning over to tables with tight pockets. Why is this? Is this really the right direction to go with the game?

I'm sure there are many players that will disagree with me, but in my experience, I don't think tight pockets are going to help the game and are really not for the American games, but rather it's something that lends itself to snooker or even Russian billiards. Those games are all about accuracy for the most part, and not necessarily about positioning AS MUCH as the American games (especially 8 and 9 ball).

Thing about playing 8-ball and (any rotational game especially) on a tight pocket table is that there is so much sacrifice for position in place of pocketing the ball, and the worst part about pocketing a ball with a deep shelf or tight pocket is the ultimate chance that the object ball will rattle in the pocket and sit there for the opposing player to have a freebe. You all know this, sure, but how can you just accept this as part of the game?

I've watched the Mosconi Cup for many years and have seen pro player's matches wasted by some nonsense pocket rejection. It's sad even on an amateur level because I've seen it on my home table that actually has tight pockets and on some public tables (certain bar teams tightened up the pockets at their place) and someone made a great shot and yet because there was spin on the ball, it got rejected and sat there in the pocket. How would anyone think this is even legitimate?

So many shooters nowadays think that the tight pocket is the way to go. I don't agree. And I don't even agree with that even on the pro level. You see that shot in this year's cup by Shaw that was clearly a made shot right down in the throat of the pocket and yet it was rejected because of spin on the ball to get position?

Even take Shane, (which is one of my favorite pro players). He said in TAR that the tight pocket table is really made for one pocket. I agree and feel that it's NOT meant for a rotational game, and even 8-ball at that.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

In ever thread my pov on this has been consistent. I think tight pockets are bad for the game. I'm playing all of the tight pocket billiards games, snooker, blackball, chinese 8 ball, but these are different. US pool has a greater variety of games and a bigger repertoire of shots.

The tightest pockets (apart from Pyramid) are found in Chinese 8 ball. When a ball ends up near a rail, there is a very limited amount of things you can do to the shot. You can't shoot hard or be fancy, you just have to shoot smoothly and at a fairly soft pace. Now in the Chinese 8 ball game this may not be that big of a deal, you just need to play a nice pattern, or maybe play some sort of safe, but in 10 ball or 9 ball it's a big problem. Certain shots are not realistically makeable. The Chinese do play 9 ball on these tables, but it's a much different game. This is what happens if you over tighten the pockets.

I've heard all the brags of the "tight pocket" cowboys...To me it's all hot air. Show me some packages of 9 ball or 10 ball, not once but multiple ones, then I'll listen. It's like a shooter who can't hit the target at 200 meters trying to make the target smaller or moving it further away, it makes no freakin sense at all. Go ahead and play one pocket or banks, then, but don't try to make this small pocket bs standard for the game. Pool is supposed to be a game of creativity and big strokes, not punting safes. And if you don't listen, then get a freaking Chinese 8 ball table, and try to play some 9 ball on it. Maybe then, you'll understand how hoplelessly stupid this whole idea is.

All of you guys trying to make it look like you've "mastered" the game on normal pockets, why don't you play some Rotation? Plenty of challenges left in that game. Not going to see many packages there, even with 4.5 or larger pockets. Or transition to snooker, which is pretty much all straight shooting and safes. Go give the Rocket a beating, then come back and tell us "I told you so".
 
Straightpool_99

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
DarkPoseidon6 said:
So I'm new here but had to vent and get a seasoned opinion from everyone here after I put my two cents in about this, which I know has been beaten to death many times.

Maybe I'm old-school, but I don't see how tight pockets are better for the game. I've been playing pool (8-ball mostly with some 9-ball) for the better part of 30 years. I've played on all sorts of tables of all sorts of dimensions, pocket cuts, cloth, etc, and ran out my fare share over the years, won many games, blah, blah. And whatever.....

But I've noticed over the years that the trend is that so many players that own tables and even certain teams on league have been transitioning over to tables with tight pockets. Why is this? Is this really the right direction to go with the game?

I'm sure there are many players that will disagree with me, but in my experience, I don't think tight pockets are going to help the game and are really not for the American games, but rather it's something that lends itself to snooker or even Russian billiards. Those games are all about accuracy for the most part, and not necessarily about positioning AS MUCH as the American games (especially 8 and 9 ball).

Thing about playing 8-ball and (any rotational game especially) on a tight pocket table is that there is so much sacrifice for position in place of pocketing the ball, and the worst part about pocketing a ball with a deep shelf or tight pocket is the ultimate chance that the object ball will rattle in the pocket and sit there for the opposing player to have a freebe. You all know this, sure, but how can you just accept this as part of the game?

I've watched the Mosconi Cup for many years and have seen pro player's matches wasted by some nonsense pocket rejection. It's sad even on an amateur level because I've seen it on my home table that actually has tight pockets and on some public tables (certain bar teams tightened up the pockets at their place) and someone made a great shot and yet because there was spin on the ball, it got rejected and sat there in the pocket. How would anyone think this is even legitimate?

So many shooters nowadays think that the tight pocket is the way to go. I don't agree. And I don't even agree with that even on the pro level. You see that shot in this year's cup by Shaw that was clearly a made shot right down in the throat of the pocket and yet it was rejected because of spin on the ball to get position?

Even take Shane, (which is one of my favorite pro players). He said in TAR that the tight pocket table is really made for one pocket. I agree and feel that it's NOT meant for a rotational game, and even 8-ball at that.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

In ever thread my pov on this has been consistent. I think tight pockets are bad for the game. I'm playing all of the tight pocket billiards games, snooker, blackball, chinese 8 ball, but these are different. US pool has a greater variety of games and a bigger repertoire of shots.

The tightest pockets (apart from Pyramid) are found in Chinese 8 ball. When a ball ends up near a rail, there is a very limited amount of things you can do to the shot. You can't shoot hard or be fancy, you just have to shoot smoothly and at a fairly soft pace. Now in the Chinese 8 ball game this may not be that big of a deal, you just need to play a nice pattern, or maybe play some sort of safe, but in 10 ball or 9 ball it's a big problem. Certain shots are not realistically makeable. The Chinese do play 9 ball on these tables, but it's a much different game. This is what happens if you over tighten the pockets.

I've heard all the brags of the "tight pocket" cowboys...To me it's all hot air. Show me some packages of 9 ball or 10 ball, not once but multiple ones, then I'll listen. It's like a shooter who can't hit the target at 200 meters trying to make the target smaller or moving it further away, it makes no freakin sense at all. Go ahead and play one pocket or banks, then, but don't try to make this small pocket bs standard for the game. Pool is supposed to be a game of creativity and big strokes, not punting safes. And if you don't listen, then get a freaking Chinese 8 ball table, and try to play some 9 ball on it. Maybe then, you'll understand how hoplelessly stupid this whole idea is.

All of you guys trying to make it look like you've "mastered" the game on normal pockets, why don't you play some Rotation? Plenty of challenges left in that game. Not going to see many packages there, even with 4.5 or larger pockets. Or transition to snooker, which is pretty much all straight shooting and safes. Go give the Rocket a beating, then come back and tell us "I told you so".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top