Corey Going Back To School

kkdanamatt

AzB Gold Member
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i think the reason the snooker tour is doing so good is

The Brits have class

It's much more than class alone. There are players on both sides of the Atlantic who have class and those who are totally without class.

The real reason why the snooker tour is successful is huge prize $$$$ and lots of televised matches, compared to what is normally available in pocket billiards.

That prize money is fueled, in my opinion, by the promoters who stage wonderfully run tournaments where hundreds are in attendance and millions watch on TV. That fan base is due, in no small measure, to the ease of betting on snooker through the English bookies and on SKY BET, where you can wager on every match, high breaks, handicaps, etc.

If we had legalized and wide spread wagering on pool matches in the US, similar to what we enjoy with horse racing or football wagering, that would be a major shot in the arm for professional pool players in the US.

Of course, some of you will bring up the subject of players who "dump" matches.
Oh, well.
 

HurdyGurdy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If we had legalized and wide spread wagering on pool matches in the US, similar to what we enjoy with horse racing or football wagering, that would be a major shot in the arm for professional pool players in the US.

Of course, some of you will bring up the subject of players who "dump" matches.
Oh, well.

Snooker has had its share of match-fixing shenanigans--the disgraced Stephen Lee, and the exonerated John Higgins are two that I know of--and its not in the tattered shambles that professional American pool is in. Although it seems to an observer from across the pond that the prize money has been evaporating, slowly...
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's much more than class alone. There are players on both sides of the Atlantic who have class and those who are totally without class.

The real reason why the snooker tour is successful is huge prize $$$$ and lots of televised matches, compared to what is normally available in pocket billiards.

That prize money is fueled, in my opinion, by the promoters who stage wonderfully run tournaments where hundreds are in attendance and millions watch on TV. That fan base is due, in no small measure, to the ease of betting on snooker through the English bookies and on SKY BET, where you can wager on every match, high breaks, handicaps, etc.

If we had legalized and wide spread wagering on pool matches in the US, similar to what we enjoy with horse racing or football wagering, that would be a major shot in the arm for professional pool players in the US.

Of course, some of you will bring up the subject of players who "dump" matches.
Oh, well.
Horse racing has declined 50 % in the last 2 decades

1
 

kkdanamatt

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Horse racing has declined 50 % in the last 2 decades

1

What about American Pro Football?

You bring up horse racing, but ignore the huge amount of money wagered on American Pro Football.

My point is this: fans of all sports are passionate and like to wager on the outcome because they feel move involved than when they just sit on their hands by the sidelines.

When I watch two great pool players competing at the table I am much more involved in the match when I have some cash riding on the outcome.

I suspect that I'm not alone.
Pool players generally gamble and spectators want to be part of the action.
That's my point.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Hey pt109, is Alex trying again this year?

Gideon

I don't think so....last time we talked about it, we both wish he had got the snooker bug when he was 21....I think he would've been top16....at least.

I think if Alex played exclusively snooker for two years, he could get his tour card...
....but wouldn't be as successful financially as he would staying on a pool table.

He loves the game....it might all come together playing Chinese 8-ball.


Late 30s is tough to go pro at snooker even for a snooker player.....
...hell, at 40 you can play in the senior events.
 

Siz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
if anyone knows Corey, please tell him to get a waistcoat with a watch/chalk pocket, or one of these here thingys

If someone is giving advice to Corey, I don't think that what he does with his chalk matters. The important advice for him concerns tactics: don't try to imitate what the full time snooker players do - the good ones will hang him out to dry. What he has to do if he wants to compete is mess the table up.

Snooker players like to have all the reds in a bunch down one end of the table. Then then spar with each other hiding the white up the other end of the table until one of them gets a chance to pocket a ball at distance. Corey really doesn't want to be playing that game. At the first opportunity, he should get one of the reds down the other end of the table. Then if he can hide it, he should be looking to get another red down that end as well.

That is the key to getting a really messed up table, which snooker players hate, and which will go a long way to levelling the playing field between snooker and pool players.

Don't allow them to make the game one that is played at distance. Distance is their friend.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
If someone is giving advice to Corey, I don't think that what he does with his chalk matters. The important advice for him concerns tactics: don't try to imitate what the full time snooker players do - the good ones will hang him out to dry. What he has to do if he wants to compete is mess the table up.

Snooker players like to have all the reds in a bunch down one end of the table. Then then spar with each other hiding the white up the other end of the table until one of them gets a chance to pocket a ball at distance. Corey really doesn't want to be playing that game. At the first opportunity, he should get one of the reds down the other end of the table. Then if he can hide it, he should be looking to get another red down that end as well.

That is the key to getting a really messed up table, which snooker players hate, and which will go a long way to levelling the playing field between snooker and pool players.

Don't allow them to make the game one that is played at distance. Distance is their friend.

Excellent post, IMO...turning a snooker table into two 'size by sixes' helps a pool player.
 

HurdyGurdy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If someone is giving advice to Corey, I don't think that what he does with his chalk matters. The important advice for him concerns tactics: don't try to imitate what the full time snooker players do - the good ones will hang him out to dry. What he has to do if he wants to compete is mess the table up.

Snooker players like to have all the reds in a bunch down one end of the table. Then then spar with each other hiding the white up the other end of the table until one of them gets a chance to pocket a ball at distance. Corey really doesn't want to be playing that game. At the first opportunity, he should get one of the reds down the other end of the table. Then if he can hide it, he should be looking to get another red down that end as well.

That is the key to getting a really messed up table, which snooker players hate, and which will go a long way to levelling the playing field between snooker and pool players.

Don't allow them to make the game one that is played at distance. Distance is their friend.

I get what you're saying, but, the reason that all the reds stay clustered is so the area above the balk line is a safe zone. If Corey were to send reds all over the table, his opponent, the life-long-unbeatable real snooker player, will have a pot no matter what Corey does. Breaking the reds like it was an 8 ball rack wouldn't scare Ronnie, it would only convince him he was playing a fool.

I'm not saying that it wouldn't work, or that its a bad tactic, but my intuition says it would backfire.
 

acesinc1999

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If someone is giving advice to Corey, I don't think that what he does with his chalk matters. The important advice for him concerns tactics: don't try to imitate what the full time snooker players do - the good ones will hang him out to dry. What he has to do if he wants to compete is mess the table up.

Snooker players like to have all the reds in a bunch down one end of the table. Then then spar with each other hiding the white up the other end of the table until one of them gets a chance to pocket a ball at distance. Corey really doesn't want to be playing that game. At the first opportunity, he should get one of the reds down the other end of the table. Then if he can hide it, he should be looking to get another red down that end as well.

That is the key to getting a really messed up table, which snooker players hate, and which will go a long way to levelling the playing field between snooker and pool players.

Don't allow them to make the game one that is played at distance. Distance is their friend.

This quote is someone who knows the game of snooker. Snooker is my primary, swing the cue more days than not. I am only on a pool table maybe once or twice a year and that is just a bar box out for a beer.

Snooker is about controlling the white and knowing what it will do and keeping a tidy table with colours on their spots. As I am in the USA, the few competitors that I get on my table actually unknowingly have a "pool attitude" toward the game (despite best efforts to understand snooker) and that results in exactly what Siz is describing. Drives me NUTS! Balls everywhere, no order to it all. I spend the vast majority of my time "sweeping up the table" and can't manage to put together much of a break at all because before I can put things back in order, inevitably, further lack of control has surely put things out again.

I don't agree with Siz though that this tactic has any chance of getting him through Q School. It is disrupting, it would win him a few frames (but it won't win him any friends), but it makes for long, tedious frames that, while his actual chance of winning the frame is increased, it still will not make him the likely winner of the match. Like Siz said, "the good ones will hang him out to dry" and if they are going to Q School, they are already pretty good at it.

I have said many times I admire what Corey is trying to do and I wish him the best in his go at it. That said, in response to the earlier "So what looks cartoonish?" question, one doesn't need look past the first twenty seconds of the video.

Something stuck with me from years and years ago that (I think it was) Cameron Smith said in a thread about CTE believe it or not. He said something like, "If a shot is on, it's on. A snooker player sees it when he is in his chair, when he is standing on the line, when he gets down on the shot." Truer words not been spoken.

Snooker is primarily a Black ball game. So when that video opened, I assumed Corey was well hooked, playing at Red ,and he had to consider how to keep Black safe as it is well in the open. And Pink is fine as well on Green spot. When Corey took so long then finally decided to attempt to pot Yellow, my eyes rolled. Surely pool players scoff at the ridiculously simple snooker roll up safety and prefer to see Corey play the "manly" shot on Yellow. But a true snooker player is actually looking to play the "manly" Black ball game and will use the roll up safety as a tactic to that proper game. If Corey's yellow had gone in, he still had nothing of significance to carry on the break. If Blue, Pink and Black had all been tied up, then the attempted pot on Yellow would have been correct (but with much better follow of course).

I am probably speaking Greek here so I will stop. But all the best to Corey in his efforts.
 
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Scaramouche

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If we had legalized and wide spread wagering on pool matches in the US, similar to what we enjoy with horse racing or football wagering, that would be a major shot in the arm for professional pool players in the US.

Of course, some of you will bring up the subject of players who "dump" matches.
Oh, well.

What snooker has, and American pool doesn't, is an organization.
It investigates and takes action against the offending players.

For example:

Quinten Hann
Banned from snooker for eight years
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/snooker/4725612.stm

Also banned by another regulator
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...l/news-story/75d4bacc06de6b106d4d9c9ace5457a1

Stephen Lee
Banned for 12 years
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...r-player-stupid-weak-greedy--MATT-LAWTON.html

In its wild-west condition, and unable to attract a promoter like Barry Hearn, how could American pool hope to present an ethically acceptable package to the media, the bookies and the bettors?
 

Scaramouche

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Snooker has had its share of match-fixing shenanigans--the disgraced Stephen Lee, and the exonerated John Higgins are two that I know of--and its not in the tattered shambles that professional American pool is in. Although it seems to an observer from across the pond that the prize money has been evaporating, slowly...

Wrong

Example of increases in prize money for the current snooker season:

Australian Goldfields Open – increase of $21,600 which equates to roughly £11,000
Shanghai Masters – increase of £15,200
International Championship – increase of £32,000
UK Championship – increase of £32,000
German Masters – increase of €32,000 which equates to roughly £23,680
Welsh Open – increase of £24,000
China Open – increase of £32,000
World Championship – increase of £136,100

Next year there will be a £1,000,000 bonus for a player who can win all four tournaments of the Home Series.
 
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Siz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
... Breaking the reds like it was an 8 ball rack wouldn't scare Ronnie, it would only convince him he was playing a fool....

I was not suggesting that he breaks the reds like an 8 ball rack - although I would pay good money to see that happen in a pro match :D). The way it would happen is this:

Normally a pro snooker player playing from somewhere in balk (the kitchen) who does not have a pot on, will try to find a cue ball path back to the balk end, as close to the short rail as possible.

The alternative is to leave the white on the short rail at the black end of the table. But this is regarded as being a negative safe: it rarely puts your opponent in any trouble because you are leaving him close to lots of reds. So it is usually only played as a last resort, when there is no path back to balk.

What I am suggesting is that Corey plays to leave the white on the black short rail as soon as he can. That he looks for an opportunity to play a red full ball, sending the red up the table towards balk and leaving the white on the black short rail.

The key is to leave the white tight against the rail, hide the red you have sent up table and not leave a pot into the middle pockets (which play easier than on a pool table). This is actually not difficult to do.

What often happens is that your opponent is then prevented from sending the white back to the balk end because you have put a red there. So he plays a shot that tries to get the white back onto the black short rail. But in doing so, is quite likely to push another red up the table. Now you just let things take their course - the table will get messed up quite quickly.

But I am not suggesting that this tactic would get Corey very far against Ronnie O (or any other top 8 player). But nothing would really. Perhaps an 8 ball break would be worth a try though - I doubt that Ronnie would be able to stop laughing!
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
kkdanamatt...Is this your professional opinion, based on your vast experience? That's a ridiculous statement as a generality. SOME poolplayers gamble...most do not. They play the game for enjoyment and competition. Playing pool (or snooker) is not about gambling. It's about competitive spirit, a desire for excellence, and having fun.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Pool players generally gamble.
 

kkdanamatt

AzB Gold Member
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Silver Member
kkdanamatt...Is this your professional opinion, based on your vast experience? That's a ridiculous statement as a generality. SOME poolplayers gamble...most do not. They play the game for enjoyment and competition. Playing pool (or snooker) is not about gambling. It's about competitive spirit, a desire for excellence, and having fun.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Scott, I'm trying to think of a professional pool player who never gambled.
Nope.....I can't think of a single one.
Can you name one?
By the way, I said most, not all.
I think my statement is accurate and I stand by it.
 

SpinDoctor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Scott, I'm trying to think of a professional pool player who never gambled.
Nope.....I can't think of a single one.
Can you name one?
By the way, I said most, not all.
I think my statement is accurate and I stand by it.

Ralph Souquet?
 

DaveK

Still crazy after all these years
Silver Member
Scott, I'm trying to think of a professional pool player who never gambled.
Nope.....I can't think of a single one.
Can you name one?
By the way, I said most, not all.
I think my statement is accurate and I stand by it.

Over a year to reply ? :lol: :thud:

Dave
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
45:39

Maybe one can afford to not stay down on the shot and still make the ball on a bar table. And airstroking is hardly a proper way to align oneself on a long red, as is adjusting the stance while down on the shot. Corey could use some real coaching from a real cue sports coach--a certified WPBSA coach would be a good start! :)

Perhaps "cartoonish" is too strong a word? I guess "ridiculous" would be more apt?

There is zero doubt in my mind that Corey would benefit from a snooker coach tough trick to turn at his age either way , I'd love to see one of our juniors take on the task because thier not hard wired in yet they have a much higher learning curve
I think there is a video of Ronnie O at 14 his play then was better than Alex or Corey's level of play now in snooker

1
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think there is a video of Ronnie O at 14 his play then was better than Alex or Corey's level of play now in snooker

1

Almost every 14 year old snooker player (that plays seriously) is probably better than Alex or Corey.
 
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