Live Streaming will it last?

CueSportTV · Dec 10, 2008

I decided to post this thread after emailing with Jerry Forsyth and reading a number of threads and comments both on AZB and elsewhere on the web.

Live streaming seems to be a very new phenomonen (at least with cue sports) having become popular in the last 12-18 months.

A lot of people including my own company are struggling to make it financially viable especially when the average viewer does not want to pay for content. Actually quite right that they shouldn't want to in all fairness, the quality presented by many streamers due to Internet connections and equipment is quite poor and the budgets are not anywhere near that are a traditional broadcaster.

However, I wanted to post not about the doom-and-gloom of IPTV but the potential positives. According to the Sporting Goods Manfacturers association 18.5% of US citizens play billiards at least once per month this is around 56 million players.

I found an article on emarketer.com that also states that 80% of all Internet users access online video (70% of this is via YouTube and Google Video).

If we do a calculation based on these figures it means a potential viewership for live streams of 32.5 million people in the USA alone.

So my own conclusion is that it is not that there is no market for it, it is about these parameters below:

1. The quality of the stream
2. Reaching the viewing public
3. The cost

We have streamed to over 11,000 viewers since June this year and know that a lot of what we have done has not been to the highest standards due to financial constraints, Internet connections within venues and a lack of belief from within the industry.

So really this post is to make sure everyone keeps trying! 2009 will be a good year for the live-stream community and a bit of competition is very healthy as it drives the standards up and up.

poolpop63 · Dec 10, 2008

If I were doing this... I'd rather have 3000 viewers at $1 than 20 viewers at $20. Or did I make a math error ..... or let the cat out of the bag? hmmm wow that's something to think about.

Fast Lenny · Dec 10, 2008

poolpop63 said:
If I were doing this... I'd rather have 3000 viewers at $1 than 20 viewers at $20. Or did I make a math error ..... or let the cat out of the bag? hmmm wow that's something to think about.

I agree that makes sense but no one has yet to have a crowd of 3000 at once and most people don't want to pay anything,donating to the cause and sponsors are the best bet IMO.I do think we need to get more people aware outside of AZ Billiards to get the numbers up,the best way to do that is people who want to help to put up fliers in poolhalls and buy tshirts basically being a stylish billboard.I don't know if it is just a fad,I do think it has a good solid following but we need to really spread the word and if you can support the streamers then please do. :smile:

YOLO · Dec 10, 2008

I had a post together then my browser crashed.... Viral marketing is the best way to get the viewers right now. This includes posts on forums, blogs, press releases, word of mouth basically.

The other thing I find frustrating is the lack of any kind of schedule... maybe I watch too much TV but you guys need to find out how to come up with a schedule. Even if it's a one day/time per week (like monday night football) where an interesting match up will take place to start. This should be an "event" that's promoted weekly (in addition to other stream opportunities that arise). Once viewership climbs the sponsors will want in on the action.

In addition, 14:1 and 1P aren't going to cut it for the masses. 8-9 Ball are whats most widely played and should be "featured" at first. Adding in the others as things grow. You could eventually have 3-4 weekly "features" to include the other games/match ups but if you start out with straight pool and 1P you are shooting yourself in the foot, IMO.

I think the quality is fine... people don't expect and HD experience on YouTube and they won't expect it with live pool streams, although, the lighting could be improved.

Just a few thoughts...

lady9ball · Dec 10, 2008

Offense!!!

I think the ring games might be of particular interest to those who like pool but aren't necessarily fanatics. They are total offense and pretty exciting to watch! If you could mic the players, it would be even better. During the Olathe stream by TAR, several interesting conversations took place out of "earshot" and thankfully the TAR guys recapped them for us viewers.

Personally, I was blown away by how entertaining the stream was for this event! I spent over 20 hours glued to the screen over the weekend and have no regrets for doing so. And that doesn't include the free streaming I watched on Friday night.

I would like to see pool halls fixing up big screens to display the streams. They could charge the customers a small amount to watch or ask them to donate. Then they could turn around and donate that amount or a good percentage to the streamer, minus PPV costs if applicable. I'm going to talk to our local hall owner about this and see what he thinks.

curly · Dec 10, 2008

lady9ball said:
I think the ring games might be of particular interest to those who like pool but aren't necessarily fanatics. They are total offense and pretty exciting to watch! If you could mic the players, it would be even better. During the Olathe stream by TAR, several interesting conversations took place out of "earshot" and thankfully the TAR guys recapped them for us viewers.

Personally, I was blown away by how entertaining the stream was for this event! I spent over 20 hours glued to the screen over the weekend and have no regrets for doing so. And that doesn't include the free streaming I watched on Friday night.

I would like to see pool halls fixing up big screens to display the streams. They could charge the customers a small amount to watch or ask them to donate. Then they could turn around and donate that amount or a good percentage to the streamer, minus PPV costs if applicable. I'm going to talk to our local hall owner about this and see what he thinks.

I agree with you totally. I liked the ring game format with it's shot making and no safety play. It was much better than watching one foul Texas Express IMO. I watched and paid for the TAR stream and enjoyed it immensely. Also, I think that a monthly fee for access to live streaming and archieved matches would help create the revenue needed. I enjoyed Buddy Halls rant during Justins interview regarding his dislike of the one-foul rules currently used in 9 and 10 ball.
Curly

Matt90 · Dec 10, 2008

time will tell

It may last ...but maybe not .Unless something really drastic changes
in the quality department I doubt it .Then again I am a stickler for video
quality .....I have ran a video service and repair center for 12 yrs .Plus
I have done the 1st 5-7 tournaments for free .I am a nice guy but will
that last ? At least it gave me time to work out some of the kinks .I started
this to just make DVDs and do video but people were so into streaming I
basically had to do it too.Guess it's time to go do weddings or soft porn
or find some advertising and or a sponsor .We can run ads while online
and my rates are reasonable .As far as quality goes it's probably just me
alot of video looks good in the small screen but will not hold up on full
screen .Even running at higher speeds with flash media encoder only
helps so much .Then again I have been doing set up and convergence jobs
on big screen tvs and would be going nuts thinking it looked bad ,then the
customer would walk in and say WOW it never looked that good !! So I
would stop ,write a bill,get paid and leave.So again it's probably just me
being picky .In the next few weeks I will post some stuff to youtube that
looks about 10x's better than the stream can ever put out .

CocoboloCowboy · Dec 10, 2008

I think the quality will go up, if the streamers have BETTER EQUIPTMENT. Sadly the STREAMERS like FAST LENNY do not have the Equiptment budget of say CBS Sports.

Matt90 · Dec 10, 2008

cameras

I know what you mean .I have great cameras but you can have the
best and still need more BANDWITH !! A $3000 hardware encoding card
from Digital Rapids would help.In time I am sure some smart coder out
there will come up with a better way and even let us stream in HD ,sorry
I did not mean to gripe and moan about it in my earlier post .

Natural · Dec 10, 2008

If someone pays for a live feed, they should be able to easily record it so that they can watch it when they want to. Some of us work 50+ hours a week.

CueSportTV · Dec 11, 2008

Some of these replies are very positive, the problem of quality is my greatest concern,

Live events from the UK normally mean send the live file at 148kbps, very slow! However, we use a dedicated Windows Server to pull the file from our encoding machine, this pre-renders the file for viewers so actually looks far better than it should.

All of our live events are also captured to tape or hard drive at much higher quality, these files are then encoded seperately for viewers into 5 different bitrates, 256, 400, 800, 1200 and 1800. This allows choice, our video system will detect your Internet speed and serve you a suitable file.

As for capture cards ours cost ?100 (about $150) and is regarded as one of the best.

Osprey Multimedia Capture Card:

http://www.teamsolutions.co.uk/products.asp?recnumber=36

This allows direct composite video or S-Video straight to your PC ready for encoding.

I know the free services out there do the encoding and everything for you, but the quality on the likes of U-Stream can be a problem. If anyone would like to put a stream through CueSport TV then there is no charge and you can see what it is like.

Matt90 · Dec 11, 2008

I appreciate it

Thanks Cue tv ,From the looks of the video on your
page you know what you are doing ,I may take you
up on that idea :thumbup:

CueSportTV · Dec 11, 2008

Natural said:
If someone pays for a live feed, they should be able to easily record it so that they can watch it when they want to. Some of us work 50+ hours a week.

I don't tend to agree with recording it, however, a downloadable version available in the price of the live stream might be a good idea.

Natural · Dec 11, 2008

CueSportTV said:
I don't tend to agree with recording it, however, a downloadable version available in the price of the live stream might be a good idea.

That would work fine if I am understanding you correctly. If I pay for the live stream, I can also download the whole thing to watch at my discretion.

My thing is, I usually can't be home to watch the events that I would like to. Don't get me wrong, I want to support TAR and the rest of you guys steaming, but I can't pay for feeds that I don't get to see as I am not a rich man.

uwate · Dec 11, 2008

can you guys give us some details on your costs to stream? 1000 viewers?

u32 · Dec 11, 2008

PPV for feeds

If the feed is low enough (20 bucks for the final day) I have no problem Paying extra for the or dvd. I would argue anyone that has a business plan asking for 30+ dollars a day. It at a MINIMUM quality would be like the Billiard club network youtube feed. & when blown up to full screen will look go enough to compete against cable. Anything less then this I might have a problem with it. But the problem with that is bandwidth and price. Crawl before you can walk

Natural said:
That would work fine if I am understanding you correctly. If I pay for the live stream, I can also download the whole thing to watch at my discretion.

My thing is, I usually can't be home to watch the events that I would like to. Don't get me wrong, I want to support TAR and the rest of you guys steaming, but I can't pay for feeds that I don't get to see as I am not a rich man.

mnorwood · Dec 11, 2008

Streaming.

Will it last???? Hell yes. Have you looked at the puke that hollywood and American tv has spewed lately? Americans have had it with the crap mainstream media is forcing down their throat. The internet is the future for those who are creative and resourceful. The monopoly is broken on media, thank God.

The best and brightest will make this work, the networks will fade and I will have a giant smile on my face.

worriedbeef · Dec 11, 2008

the thing we've got to cling on to is technology is constantly getting better. what's the name of that theory/law that says computing power doubles every four years, or something like that. apparently it's been true so far!

point is if technology continues to progress as it is then we should see better and better video quality at an affordable price as time goes on. which in theory means as time goes by, the product is constantly getting more appealing and better value.

Fast Lenny · Dec 11, 2008

worriedbeef said:
the thing we've got to cling on to is technology is constantly getting better. what's the name of that theory/law that says computing power doubles every four years, or something like that. apparently it's been true so far!

point is if technology continues to progress as it is then we should see better and better video quality at an affordable price as time goes on. which in theory means as time goes by, the product is constantly getting more appealing and better value.

I agree,I am constantly working to improve my stream,it has gotten better since I started in May when I did my first one.I have some big improvements coming in the next month to my stream but it is going to cost a few thousand but will be well worth it,I appreciate the support I have gotten.

ftgokie · Dec 12, 2008

Fast Lenny said:
I agree,I am constantly working to improve my stream,it has gotten better since I started in May when I did my first one.I have some big improvements coming in the next month to my stream but it is going to cost a few thousand but will be well worth it,I appreciate the support I have gotten.

Fast Lenny...I have seen some of your streams..and I have to say I like them....

Live Streaming will it last?

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