I think it was at least in part due to the fact that SOME of the women's players were easier on the eyes.
WPA Rules For Transgenders
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
I think it was at least in part due to the fact that SOME of the women's players were easier on the eyes.
Why are all you men so concerned ????
I've sat back and watched this thread for several days now, and just don't get it. What the hell are you MEN so F__cking worried about transgenders playing on the Women's Tour. Some of your comments and reasoning are in my opinion so DAMNED STUPID that I look at the STR8 world and wonder where all your STUPIDITY came from.
A very very dear friend of mine many years ago enter the BCA Nationals as a transgendered female (yes she is a female) and won. Yes she placed 1st. And I sat back and watched all you str8 men and women running back and forth between the rooms at the Riviera spouting off about "the he/she playing in the Women's Open".
Get the hell over it. As a gay man I have played in several leagues all over the country and had the listen to the FAG jokes and talk behind my back but it never bothered me because I KNEW WHO I WAS!!!!!! .... Your insecurities are all showing. The number of league nights I have had to listen to the FAG JOKES all night got me to the point that whenever I competed on the table and beat one of the offenders, I would shake his hand and ask him how it felt to be beaten by a FAG. Mouths dropped but it seemed to do the trick. The jokes and innuendos ceased when I was around cause I'd call you on it. And enough of you were STRONG ENOUGH IN YOUR SEXUALITY to accept me for who I was, just as I accepted them for who they were.
When I saw this thread start up, I could not find it coincidental that the weekend before 49 members of the LGBT community were murdered and 53 others wounded, and someone starts up a tread about TRANSGENDER individuals playing in Women's Tournaments. The WPA has considered the situation and written rules and regulations into their organization to RECOGNIZE THAT TRANSGENDERS DO EXIST. Why are you MEN so damned concerned about it. If you want to compete on the WPA Tour, start the hormones and phycological treatments that have to be endured by these individuals to become who they really feel that they are.
Live and let live GENTLEMEN. Life goes on and there are more pressing issues in this country right now that demand our attention than a thread like this.
Please don't start sending me vicious attacks in response. I've heard it all before in my almost 70 years on this planet. I enjoy the game of pool. I enjoy the relationships that I have made over the many years that I have played and the acceptance most have extended to me. It all boils down to one thing. WE ARE ALL PEOPLE. DESERVING OF THE RESPECT AND CARING THAT WE ALL DESERVE INDIVIDUALLY.
I see the person, male or female or transgender or gay or lesbian, white or black or Asian. We are all people, and we enjoy playing the same game. And that's what it is. A GAME. I win. I lose. But I don't care who I lose to or beat. I will shake their hand and say great shooting. Have a beer, and go home and go on with my life.
IT'S TO SHORT TO GET ALL CAUGHT UP IN THIS BULLSHIT.....
ok .... my rant is over .... CARRY ON !!!!!
I've sat back and watched this thread for several days now, and just don't get it. What the hell are you MEN so F__cking worried about transgenders playing on the Women's Tour. Some of your comments and reasoning are in my opinion so DAMNED STUPID that I look at the STR8 world and wonder where all your STUPIDITY came from.
A very very dear friend of mine many years ago enter the BCA Nationals as a transgendered female (yes she is a female) and won. Yes she placed 1st. And I sat back and watched all you str8 men and women running back and forth between the rooms at the Riviera spouting off about "the he/she playing in the Women's Open".
Get the hell over it. As a gay man I have played in several leagues all over the country and had the listen to the FAG jokes and talk behind my back but it never bothered me because I KNEW WHO I WAS!!!!!! .... Your insecurities are all showing. The number of league nights I have had to listen to the FAG JOKES all night got me to the point that whenever I competed on the table and beat one of the offenders, I would shake his hand and ask him how it felt to be beaten by a FAG. Mouths dropped but it seemed to do the trick. The jokes and innuendos ceased when I was around cause I'd call you on it. And enough of you were STRONG ENOUGH IN YOUR SEXUALITY to accept me for who I was, just as I accepted them for who they were.
When I saw this thread start up, I could not find it coincidental that the weekend before 49 members of the LGBT community were murdered and 53 others wounded, and someone starts up a tread about TRANSGENDER individuals playing in Women's Tournaments. The WPA has considered the situation and written rules and regulations into their organization to RECOGNIZE THAT TRANSGENDERS DO EXIST. Why are you MEN so damned concerned about it. If you want to compete on the WPA Tour, start the hormones and phycological treatments that have to be endured by these individuals to become who they really feel that they are.
Live and let live GENTLEMEN. Life goes on and there are more pressing issues in this country right now that demand our attention than a thread like this.
Please don't start sending me vicious attacks in response. I've heard it all before in my almost 70 years on this planet. I enjoy the game of pool. I enjoy the relationships that I have made over the many years that I have played and the acceptance most have extended to me. It all boils down to one thing. WE ARE ALL PEOPLE. DESERVING OF THE RESPECT AND CARING THAT WE ALL DESERVE INDIVIDUALLY.
I see the person, male or female or transgender or gay or lesbian, white or black or Asian. We are all people, and we enjoy playing the same game. And that's what it is. A GAME. I win. I lose. But I don't care who I lose to or beat. I will shake their hand and say great shooting. Have a beer, and go home and go on with my life.
IT'S TO SHORT TO GET ALL CAUGHT UP IN THIS BULLSHIT.....
ok .... my rant is over .... CARRY ON !!!!!
I haven't seen anyone saying they want to ban anyone from anything simply because they are gay or transgendered and they are opposed to those things. The question is whether there is a biological advantage from being born male, if this advantage is retained while wearing a dress or after going through gender reassignment, and the fairness in competing on the women's tour with those who were not born with that biological advantage.
Men are very clearly superior to women at pool (for whatever the reasons, and the reasons are actually a part of this debate). So there are three really good questions that are involved here and that naturally being and should be discussed. The first question is, are men biologically superior at pool because of something physical and/or psychological that they are born with as opposed to it being solely because more men play pool than women, or because of environmental factors, or some other reason that is not biological? The second question is, that if this superiority at pool is in fact due to something biological that men are born with, does a man automatically lose all of that physical and/or psychological advantage once he gets his stuff cut off and/or takes hormones? And the third question is, if getting his stuff cut off and/or taking hormones does not in fact make him lose all of the biological advantages he was born with, is it fair for him to be able to compete with those that were born female and do not have those same biological advantages? I guess a fourth question could even be that even if the male advantage is solely environmental or otherwise not at all biological, is it fair for a transgender former male to compete on a women's tour since they got to have those advantages?
Those are very fair and reasonable questions to ask and are not anti-gay or anti-transgender in any way. If men are biologically superior at pool because of a physical and/or psychological advantage that they are born with, and they don't in fact lose all of that advantage even after taking hormones and/or after gender reassignment surgery, then there is an extremely strong argument to be made that it would not be fair to allow transgender women who were formerly men to compete with the women just the same as it is not fair for men to compete with the women--because they still retain some or all of those biological advantages that they were born with which makes such competition unfair. Those are very fair questions to seek answers to, and is a dilemma that must be addressed and answered, and that discussion as was being done in this thread is not in any way, shape, or form discriminatory. Your accusatory post and wording was way out of line and frankly I thought it was kind of offensive considering that it didn't even begin to apply here.
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With your line of thinking, whatever happens in this world that doesn't directly affect us is none of our business? Think for a bit before you answer.
ask rhea.......
This is a discussion that is being had by many, many people the world over. I also find it peculiar that during each election cycle the topic of discussion typically turns to LGBT rights. Typical distraction tactics. It is known that no matter what side of the debate you are on the passion felt will compel you to chime in. If we are discussing this them we are not discussing immigration and border walls, welfare reform, social security or any other topic that is relevant to our decision making come November.
Having said that this discussion needs to take place, for the exact reason that you find outrageous. Just the fact that some will chime in about taping junk up and swallowing this and that. The ignorance is still rife. There are real people with real feelings who are not trying to steal someone's prize money. People who are just trying to find a way that they can be themselves. My question is this: Where do you draw the line? It is very easy for someone who has chosen hormone therapy to say that at the very least hormone therapy should be the line, but there are many people who identify the same as them but who are strongly opposed to mutilating themselves or altering their body chemistry. Having to become someone else in order to be yourself, or in the very least to prove to others that you are serious is not an option for many people, that does not change how they identify.
I don't want to paint reassignment in a negative light. For those who choose that option for the reason to make themselves happy then it is a good thing. I am glad that get can find a way to be themselves. I just don't think that should be the benchmark.
Having said that this discussion needs to take place, for the exact reason that you find outrageous. Just the fact that some will chime in about taping junk up and swallowing this and that. The ignorance is still rife. There are real people with real feelings who are not trying to steal someone's prize money. People who are just trying to find a way that they can be themselves. My question is this: Where do you draw the line? It is very easy for someone who has chosen hormone therapy to say that at the very least hormone therapy should be the line, but there are many people who identify the same as them but who are strongly opposed to mutilating themselves or altering their body chemistry. Having to become someone else in order to be yourself, or in the very least to prove to others that you are serious is not an option for many people, that does not change how they identify.
I don't want to paint reassignment in a negative light. For those who choose that option for the reason to make themselves happy then it is a good thing. I am glad that get can find a way to be themselves. I just don't think that should be the benchmark.
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some studies would suggest men have an advantage
There is a lot of research that can be found online that support the following: Men perform better than women at spatial relationship and seeing patterns. Men also perform better with respect to calculations and mathematical concepts. These are all very integral parts of billiard games. Thus, if the bulk of existing scientific studies support these statements, then it is accurate to say that being born a male would give potential advantage on average over someone born female in the game of billiards. As pointed out by others already...the number of transgender individuals competing at the professional level in Women's Pro Billiards is quite small and at least to date, none have made it into the upper rankings. Simply Google "men are better at spatial relationship" to find actual studies and information online. From a strictly physical strength and coordination standpoint, there really is not a huge difference although the break can be a big factor and strength and mass does play a part in the break.
There is a lot of research that can be found online that support the following: Men perform better than women at spatial relationship and seeing patterns. Men also perform better with respect to calculations and mathematical concepts. These are all very integral parts of billiard games. Thus, if the bulk of existing scientific studies support these statements, then it is accurate to say that being born a male would give potential advantage on average over someone born female in the game of billiards. As pointed out by others already...the number of transgender individuals competing at the professional level in Women's Pro Billiards is quite small and at least to date, none have made it into the upper rankings. Simply Google "men are better at spatial relationship" to find actual studies and information online. From a strictly physical strength and coordination standpoint, there really is not a huge difference although the break can be a big factor and strength and mass does play a part in the break.
I will attempt to explain only once:
Testosterone plays a role in certain behaviors, including aggression and dominance. It also helps to spark competitiveness and boost self-esteem. Just as sexual activity can affect testosterone levels, taking part in competitive activities can cause a human testosterone levels to rise or fall. Low testosterone may result in a loss of confidence and lack of motivation. It can also lower a human's ability to concentrate or cause feelings of sadness. Low testosterone can cause sleep disturbances and lack of energy.
Verbal memory, spatial ability and fine motor skills are all influenced by estrogens and the strategies used to solve spatial or navigational puzzles differs between having a higher estrogen level or having a higher testosterone level.
There is no physical advantage in the game of billiards, men and women are on an even playing field when it comes to physical attributes however there are mental differences that are completely based on the present hormones fluctuating through your brain and central nervous system.
Testosterone plays a role in certain behaviors, including aggression and dominance. It also helps to spark competitiveness and boost self-esteem. Just as sexual activity can affect testosterone levels, taking part in competitive activities can cause a human testosterone levels to rise or fall. Low testosterone may result in a loss of confidence and lack of motivation. It can also lower a human's ability to concentrate or cause feelings of sadness. Low testosterone can cause sleep disturbances and lack of energy.
Verbal memory, spatial ability and fine motor skills are all influenced by estrogens and the strategies used to solve spatial or navigational puzzles differs between having a higher estrogen level or having a higher testosterone level.
There is no physical advantage in the game of billiards, men and women are on an even playing field when it comes to physical attributes however there are mental differences that are completely based on the present hormones fluctuating through your brain and central nervous system.
JC
Coos Cues
Transgendered people continue to get the short end of the stick including being shoved into a constituency with gays and lesbians for lack of a better place to "put" them. Even though they are neither gay, nor lesbian they seem to welcome the line they are sent to because it's not as short as the line they would otherwise be in which would have no clout.
I agree that when it comes to pool let the better player prevail. Unless of course there are other even better players who can't compete because they have a shlong. Then you get into the gray area this thead is about.
BTW I don't believe you about your very dear friend. That wasn't going to fly "many years ago" if it's still being debated today. Accurate records are kept, what is her name? I frankly call BS.
If you beat me in pool you will get a hand shake and you will not get a fag joke or comment. I learned some time ago I'm not attractive to gays.
To equate the timing of this thread to the massacre in Orlando is looking for a boogie man where there is none. Typical leftist tactic.
JC
Nonsense.
Everybody that thinks men don't have a physical advantage when it comes to this game is either lying or ignorant. Of course this doesn't mean that the women can't compete with the men, it just means they will always be at a disadvantage.
If you have ever studied the strokes of the men and the women up close and you don't see a drastic difference between them -- I can't help you.
In order to compete with the men the women have work twice as hard and have fundamentals twice as good. This is obvious to anyone who has seen them play. The stroke tells the story.
Motor skills are yet another thing controlled by the central nervous system. And thus highly influenced by hormones.
I hate to be so blunt but -- we don't care about all that. At least as far as this conversation is concerned. We are just talking about competing here and keeping the playing field even. Your thoughts may be relavent outside of sports competition but not inside of it.
I would hope that you would agree that there are sports where men have obvious advantages over women. The question here is -- is pool one of them? I think the answer is clearly yes.
Does a high estrogen level enhance spatial ability or is it better to have a low estrogen level?
JC
Coos Cues
This thread has been teetering on the edge. The above post will probably be the final nail.
JC
Fair enough...(I'm not exempt from being a bit ignorant on this subject)
So the question becomes -- can someone who has had a lifetime of hormonal advantages ever play on an even playing field with those who have never experienced this?
After continuous hormonal treatments and testing to remain within the standards of a females hormone levels and almost zero testosterone from the continuous usage of anti-androgens, it only takes 7 years for 100% of the cells in the human body to be replaced with brand new cells. This means previous brain patterns, muscle mass, and fat redistribution are all completely changed within 7 years or less. The only thing you can retain is previous knowledge of the game itself if you played prior to transition. Which again should not be considered an advantage because you put in the time and effort to practice and learn.
Nobody will be changing their entire life, having surgeries and subjecting themselves to hate and criticism for pool tournaments. If you're transgender, you're transgender...
A lot of people seem to not get that some people are born looking like a female but have the genetic makeup of a male. Or the other way around. A lot of people think it's a lifestyle people choose for personal reasons. It's not... Think of it like being right or left handed. It's not something you choose.