2 inch balls on 7ft bar box

realkingcobra

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Brunswick-Balke-Collender published rule books until about 1942 and were the authority. They also ran the championships and set the prizes and rules.

The game we would call eight ball did not appear in the rule book until the 1908 edition. Previous editions of the rule book ended at shuffleboard (page 116). In 1908 additional games were added including this game that BBC Co. seems to have invented to sell ball sets. They called it, with tremendous inventiveness, "BBC Co. Pool". The game continued to be called this through the 1942 edition of the major rules revision of 1925. Below is the start of that first appearance of the rules of the game.

There were many, many pocket billiard games before 1908 and thus before eight ball. The championship game in 1908 was Continuous Pool which was like 14.1 but you ran off all the balls of each rack and started each new rack with a full-rack break shot. This is the game that de Oro won pool championships at. Fifteen ball pool was scored like rotation but you did not have to shoot the balls in rotation. In Pyramid Pool the first person to make any 8 balls won. Rotation Pool, Chicago Pool, Two-ball Pool, 41 Pool, .... But no 8 ball until 1908.

View attachment 540192

Pool games evolved over the years into what we play today for the most part, but what didn't change was that American pool was played with 2 1/4" balls back then, as well as today, although the cue balls varied in size do to the game requirements or pool table design requirements.
 

Bob Jewett

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Pool games evolved over the years into what we play today for the most part, but what didn't change was that American pool was played with 2 1/4" balls back then, as well as today, although the cue balls varied in size do to the game requirements or pool table design requirements.
As the catalog I posted illustrates, Brunswick sold regular stripes and solids in sizes from 2 inches to 2 5/16 inches. I think you need to study your pool history more.

And your claim about 8 ball being the first pool game is ridiculous, as I pointed out.
 

realkingcobra

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As the catalog I posted illustrates, Brunswick sold regular stripes and solids in sizes from 2 inches to 2 5/16 inches. I think you need to study your pool history more.

And your claim about 8 ball being the first pool game is ridiculous, as I pointed out.

Bob, sold sizes don't back up your claim to American pool being played with 2 5/16" balls. Brunswick sold balls of ALL sizes because they sold tables for ALL kinds of different games played, Russian Pyramid, Snooker, Billiards, and several different billiards tables for several different kinds of billiards played!
 

realkingcobra

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As the catalog I posted illustrates, Brunswick sold regular stripes and solids in sizes from 2 inches to 2 5/16 inches. I think you need to study your pool history more.

And your claim about 8 ball being the first pool game is ridiculous, as I pointed out.

Eight-Ball was*invented*shortly after 1900; Straight*Pool*followed in 1910. Nine-Ball seems to have developed around 1920. While the term "billiards" refers to all*games*played on a billiard table, with or without pockets, some people take billiards to mean carom*games*only and use*pool*for pocket*games.Dec 2, 2017
 

realkingcobra

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As the catalog I posted illustrates, Brunswick sold regular stripes and solids in sizes from 2 inches to 2 5/16 inches. I think you need to study your pool history more.

And your claim about 8 ball being the first pool game is ridiculous, as I pointed out.

The*first pocket billiards*championship was played in 1878 with the dominant form of the*game*being*American*Four-Ball*Billiards. Professional players became so well known that cigarette cards were issued featuring them. The most famous*pool game, eight-ball, was invented shortly after 1900.

History.co.uk › uk › history-of-sports

History of Snooker and Pool | History TV
 

Dan_B

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:smile: " the dominant form of the*game*being*American*Four-Ball*Billiards. " :smile:

Something about that that is just cool!



wow, a 2 11/16" ball, seems perfect for the broom stick tour.


...after thinking about a few more days it also seems logical that the 7' could/should go too 2" balls,
we have now 150 years or so of peer review of the big picture that it looks perfect for the 7' era that has arrived like or not.
Table Makers will just have to make more tables to fit the 2" ball, no problem.

Matter of fact, my present table build isn't at the rail part yet, hmmm....
same as the previous but bedded for the 2'' ball...that would play like a monster, ilike
haft to make sure I can get them in solid red, black and yellow though, those 2" balls.
makes sense too, to have the balls weigh the same as the 2 1/4
for this conversion to have the same feel with maybe giving more energy in the roll.

...after all it does fit the present model doesn't it,
…"making things great again" ???

:smile:


 
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Bob Jewett

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The*first pocket billiards*championship was played in 1878 with the dominant form of the*game*being*American*Four-Ball*Billiards. Professional players became so well known that cigarette cards were issued featuring them. The most famous*pool game, eight-ball, was invented shortly after 1900.

History.co.uk › uk › history-of-sports

History of Snooker and Pool | History TV
I wonder why you're going to some British site for the history of American games. Don't you have any actual legitimate source material like rule books and catalogs?

I already gave you a chronology from such source material.

Why can't you just accept that you were wrong?
 

realkingcobra

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I wonder why you're going to some British site for the history of American games. Don't you have any actual legitimate source material like rule books and catalogs?

I already gave you a chronology from such source material.

Why can't you just accept that you were wrong?

Was the subject of this thread the game, or ball size? You have shown nothing to support your claim that pool was played with 2 5/16" balls, yet I have shown that American pool was and has always been played with 2 1/4" balls.
 

Bob Jewett

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Was the subject of this thread the game, or ball size? You have shown nothing to support your claim that pool was played with 2 5/16" balls, yet I have shown that American pool was and has always been played with 2 1/4" balls.
So you are going to go with a UK history site rather than what Brunswick says? Interesting.
 

Bob Jewett

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So you are going to go with a UK history site rather than what Brunswick says? Interesting.
By the way, that goofy Limey site doesn't even mention Greenleaf, Mosconi, de Oro, Phelan, etc., etc., in spite of the fact that it claims to be talking about American pool.
 

BasementDweller

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Ding...ding... ding

We have a winner...

AND S-T-I-L-L the undisputed, undefeated king of pool and billiard history...

Bob Jewett

RKC -- being proven wrong every once in a while isn't the end of the world.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
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Terry Ardeno

Ding...ding... ding

We have a winner...

AND S-T-I-L-L the undisputed, undefeated king of pool and billiard history...

Bob Jewett

RKC -- being proven wrong every once in a while isn't the end of the world.



Well, there is the mostly gone but never forgotten Terry Ardeno who would at the least give Bob a run for his money when it comes to knowledge of pool history. However, I did hear the boxing announcer's voice in my mind reading your post so I'd say it met it's goal. The bout is over even if the loser wobbles up punch drunk and wants to go another round.

Hu
 

98falstaff

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How come no one has mentioned that the proper bed/slate to nose rail height should be around 63.5 % of the diameter of the ball. Which is what, about 1 7/16 inches or so for a 2.25 inch American, usually standard billiard ball? Tell the goober to measure his rail/"bumper" height and he should have an idea what size balls he needs for his table to play right. Lordy.
 
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BC21

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I pointed out the douche move outweighed anything he said.

I dont mind being ignorant, if I wasnt I wouldnt be asking a question online but whos got time to listen assumptions in a condescending tone? So much time is wasted with people acting like that in pool rooms and in forums.

Typing in "What size pool balls" into Google will give a link to their "what size pool balls do I need" and if you click the link it will read:

2 & 1/4 inch balls are full size for use on full size American Pool tables. 2 inch balls are usually used with 7 foot tables. 1 & 7/8 inch balls tend to be used with 6 foot tables.

Mastersofgames.com › cat › pub › p...
Pool Balls - Aramith & Economy Pool Balls - Masters Traditional Games

Hoping to find someone whos tried different sizes balls on their 7ft table and learn what they learned. I already spent $450 with new felt and cushions. But as I said earlier maybe I hired the wrong company. They have been around over 60 years so figured I was good but Ive played pool on many tables and know the difference on a good running table but Im ignorant on why tables run better than others because I never worked on them. I figured Id get a guick answer or a good link here. Ive ignored the table because Ive been busy but now that Im getting closer to finishing up building the bar I know I have to address the issue I have with the table.

In bold. Here is the Google result you reference....https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/thread/3wk01xr3#r11129458. This "answer" to what size pool balls to use isn't a good answer. The reply was definitely not from anyone involved in the industry, and definitely not from anyone that has spent any time playing pool in America.

There is a standard size for pool balls. It's 2.25". All pool table cushions are designed with nose height specs intended for play with 2.25" balls. Smaller balls will cause the table to play a little slower, due to the cushion nose contacting the balls slightly higher than designed, trapping/wedging more of the ball between the nose and slate, causing less cushion response due to more friction. Larger balls (bigger than 2.25") will result in slightly faster table play. But too big amd the balls will begin to hop off the cushion everytime.

I don't think you would notice the speed difference between 2" and 2.25" balls on your table. I would notice it. I'd say any player that has played enough pool not to have to google "what size balls" to use on a 7ft table would also notice the speed difference. If you go with smaller balls it will surely make the table play easier as far as pocketing balls, but as far as industry standards/regulations go it makes no difference what size the table is...pool balls are 2.25".

And the phenolic balls nowadays are made with much better quality and specs than any balls made years ago out of clay or ivory. Most things were made/constructed better back before cheaper materials and cheaper labor became common, but I don't think that applies for billiard balls.
 

jviss

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Nope, 8 ball was the first pocket pool game, started with 2 1/4" balls before 1911.

That is incorrect. There was a pocket game in the US from the 18th century up until about 1870 called American Four-Ball Billiards, played on a large four-pocket table with four billiard balls - two of them white and two red.
 

vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
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2 & 1/4 inch balls are full size for use on full size American Pool tables. 2 inch balls are usually used with 7 foot tables. 1 & 7/8 inch balls tend to be used with 6 foot tables.
Mastersofgames.com › cat › pub › p...
Pool Balls - Aramith & Economy Pool Balls - Masters Traditional Games

In bold. Here is the Google result you reference....https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/thread/3wk01xr3#r11129458. This "answer" to what size pool balls to use isn't a good answer. The reply was definitely not from anyone involved in the industry, and definitely not from anyone that has spent any time playing pool in America.

The confusion is because that site is a British one, I can see how it makes little sense to everyone on here (and it could be worded better), but as we don't really have 7ft American tables over here (they are almost always 9ft, occasionally 8ft), a 7ft table would automatically be assumed to be English pool, which does use 2" balls.

The reference to 1 7/8" balls is because our homes are tiny and so a lot of home tables are 6ft with 1 7/8" or 2" balls.
 
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iusedtoberich

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Could ChicagoPete actually be Cobra? They both disappeared at about the same time.

:grin-square::grin-square::grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:
 

Nostroke

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Glen will never admit to being wrong. The very best you can hope for is that he will not post further and just slink away. He is not alone in the trait. One of our quite revered posters does the same.
 
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