Predator uni-loc weight bolt and extension questions

Protractor

Protractor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I took a look through all posts that I could find relating to this and didn't quite find the info I am looking for, so here goes...

I have a custom shooter made by a local friend that uses a vanilla weight bolt (just sent him an email for more detail on that) but I want to use a screw on butt extension, preferably Predator 8" with the quick release (QR) attachment that fits their Uni-loc weight bolt system. I have been using one of those aluminum/plastic collet types but am not happy with the way they feel.

My choices are: just buy a Predator cue and use the butt (haven't been able to find anyone just selling the butts new), have my friend make another butt with the Predator weight bolt setup or retrofit the butt that came with the cue.

My friend is not familiar with the Predator weight system and while he has been building cues for about 60 years he now only does it for friends and is having health issues so I did some poking around on the 'net and am left with a few questions:

- do the Predator uni-loc weight bolts screw directly into wooden threads or is there some kind of metal receptacle/insert that receives them? I looked at all the cue maker suppliers I could find and did not find any such insert.

- the replacement bumper supplied with their extension looks like it might have threads; does it screw into the butt or is it just a push in affair with ribs instead of threads?

- from other posts it looks like the weight bolts are either an M16 1.5 thread or 3/8-16; are these interchangeable or do they use the M16 1.5?

- does anyone know if the pin used by the Predator extension is the same as the standard Uni-loc quick release joint?

We do have some local shooters that use Predator but I don't think any of them are going to let me disassemble them to have a look. :grin: and none of them are using the QR extension.

Based on the fact that Predator sells the weight kit to anyone it would appear that they have provided a way for the average Joe to secure the weight bolt so that it doesn't act like a slide hammer and doesn't need to be caulked etc.

Anyone out there have any experience with this?

Thanks!
 
Michael Webb

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Protractor said:
I took a look through all posts that I could find relating to this and didn't quite find the info I am looking for, so here goes...

I have a custom shooter made by a local friend that uses a vanilla weight bolt (just sent him an email for more detail on that) but I want to use a screw on butt extension, preferably Predator 8" with the quick release (QR) attachment that fits their Uni-loc weight bolt system. I have been using one of those aluminum/plastic collet types but am not happy with the way they feel.

My choices are: just buy a Predator cue and use the butt (haven't been able to find anyone just selling the butts new), have my friend make another butt with the Predator weight bolt setup or retrofit the butt that came with the cue.

My friend is not familiar with the Predator weight system and while he has been building cues for about 60 years he now only does it for friends and is having health issues so I did some poking around on the 'net and am left with a few questions:

- do the Predator uni-loc weight bolts screw directly into wooden threads or is there some kind of metal receptacle/insert that receives them? I looked at all the cue maker suppliers I could find and did not find any such insert.

- the replacement bumper supplied with their extension looks like it might have threads; does it screw into the butt or is it just a push in affair with ribs instead of threads?

- from other posts it looks like the weight bolts are either an M16 1.5 thread or 3/8-16; are these interchangeable or do they use the M16 1.5?

- does anyone know if the pin used by the Predator extension is the same as the standard Uni-loc quick release joint?

We do have some local shooters that use Predator but I don't think any of them are going to let me disassemble them to have a look. :grin: and none of them are using the QR extension.

Based on the fact that Predator sells the weight kit to anyone it would appear that they have provided a way for the average Joe to secure the weight bolt so that it doesn't act like a slide hammer and doesn't need to be caulked etc.

Anyone out there have any experience with this?

Thanks!
Click to expand...


The shortest path is keep your weight bolt system the same and just fit the cue for the Predator bumper (yes it's threaded) and extension. Predator weight bolts are ok but they are more of a pain in the ass then thier worth. Jmo
 
Protractor

Protractor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok, so what you are saying is that the extension just screws into the bumper and not the rest of the weight bolt system?

I just removed the bumper and found that the head of the existing weight bolt is pretty much flush with the end of the butt. I presume this would mean that it would have to be recessed enough to clear the threaded part of the Predator bumper, no? According to my calipers, the OD of the bolt head looks like 16.35mm/.643 or 41/64" and the diameter of the threaded portion of the bolt is 9.15mm.

Assuming there is enough wood left on the end of the butt (not sure there is) it could then be threaded, after boring if necessary, to accept the new bumper.
 
Dave38

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
Protractor said:
Ok, so what you are saying is that the extension just screws into the bumper and not the rest of the weight bolt system?

I just removed the bumper and found that the head of the existing weight bolt is pretty much flush with the end of the butt. I presume this would mean that it would have to be recessed enough to clear the threaded part of the Predator bumper, no? According to my calipers, the OD of the bolt head looks like 16.35mm/.643 or 41/64" and the diameter of the threaded portion of the bolt is 9.15mm.

Assuming there is enough wood left on the end of the butt (not sure there is) it could then be threaded, after boring if necessary, to accept the new bumper.
Click to expand...

Is it possible that your weight system is tapped at 3/8 x 16 tpi? If so, the prather's extension kit would be you best bet, and would just screw in without any mods. The R6 style on their site. https://prathercue.com/products/extension-kit-r6-bumper-style?variant=7691261968442
Then your buddy can just make a wood extension piece to your liking and size.Tiger also offers a 3/8 x 16 option also.
Dave
 
Michael Webb

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Protractor said:
Ok, so what you are saying is that the extension just screws into the bumper and not the rest of the weight bolt system?

I just removed the bumper and found that the head of the existing weight bolt is pretty much flush with the end of the butt. I presume this would mean that it would have to be recessed enough to clear the threaded part of the Predator bumper, no? According to my calipers, the OD of the bolt head looks like 16.35mm/.643 or 41/64" and the diameter of the threaded portion of the bolt is 9.15mm.

Assuming there is enough wood left on the end of the butt (not sure there is) it could then be threaded, after boring if necessary, to accept the new bumper.
Click to expand...


You can switch the cue to set screws for weight bolts. 41/64 head is to big so depending on how deep the head goes, will tell you if you have to bore the hole larger and plug it or not. Predator Q/R bumpers work on a flush mount against the bottom of the butt not countersunk. If you give the bumper to your Cue maker it should be a painless process.
 
Protractor

Protractor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Michael Webb said:
You can switch the cue to set screws for weight bolts. 41/64 head is to big so depending on how deep the head goes, will tell you if you have to bore the hole larger and plug it or not. Predator Q/R bumpers work on a flush mount against the bottom of the butt not countersunk. If you give the bumper to your Cue maker it should be a painless process.
Click to expand...

The bolt has a head that is countersunk into the end of the butt and is 3/8-16, x 3". The bolt hole is about 5-1/4 deep, from the top of the head of the bolt when seated. The countersink puts the bolt head about 1/16" below the end cap piece of the butt. The end of the cap piece appears to be made of some sort of plastic type material, wraps around the end of the cue inward to form a circle about 1/8" smaller than the butt diameter.

From all of that, it looks like it would require the set screw weight bolt plus some mods, unless the bearing surface of the end cap would provide enough surface, but it sounds like it wouldn't.
 
Protractor

Protractor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dave38 said:
Is it possible that your weight system is tapped at 3/8 x 16 tpi? If so, the prather's extension kit would be you best bet, and would just screw in without any mods. The R6 style on their site. https://prathercue.com/products/extension-kit-r6-bumper-style?variant=7691261968442
Then your buddy can just make a wood extension piece to your liking and size.Tiger also offers a 3/8 x 16 option also.
Dave
Click to expand...

Yes, I took the bolt out to measure it and it is a flathead 3/8-16 x 3" countersunk to be pretty much flush with the end of the butt (recessed 1/16") below the end cap.

The Prather R6 kit looks like the deal for a custom butt. I searched for the Tiger kit and apart from it being mentioned on their website, the only one I found for sale was this...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Tiger-...232405826829?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

...and as luck would have it, they only have one left.I am tempted to buy it, my only concerns are it looks like the fitment would be susceptible to cross threading and I'm not sure what the diameter is vis-s-vis my butt, which is about 31.3mm/1.23" - it would be nice to have them both the same diameter. All my cues have this butt diameter but I've never handled a Tiger.

The cross threading may nothing to worry about; pretty sure I've seen Dennis O using this in matches and he just grabs it an winds it on.
 
Michael Webb

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Protractor said:
The bolt has a head that is countersunk into the end of the butt and is 3/8-16, x 3". The bolt hole is about 5-1/4 deep, from the top of the head of the bolt when seated. The countersink puts the bolt head about 1/16" below the end cap piece of the butt. The end of the cap piece appears to be made of some sort of plastic type material, wraps around the end of the cue inward to form a circle about 1/8" smaller than the butt diameter.

From all of that, it looks like it would require the set screw weight bolt plus some mods, unless the bearing surface of the end cap would provide enough surface, but it sounds like it wouldn't.
Click to expand...


Its an easy modification. Fot the 1/16 recess. Glue a shim in place to make it flush. No big deal
 
Protractor

Protractor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Michael, would you happen to know the bolt/thread size of the Predator QR bumper?

[Edit] Assuming that it is not 3/8" x 16. If so, just wondering if my buddy would have the tap etc...
 
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Dave38

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
Protractor said:
Yes, I took the bolt out to measure it and it is a flathead 3/8-16 x 3" countersunk to be pretty much flush with the end of the butt (recessed 1/16") below the end cap.

The Prather R6 kit looks like the deal for a custom butt. I searched for the Tiger kit and apart from it being mentioned on their website, the only one I found for sale was this...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Tiger-...232405826829?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

...and as luck would have it, they only have one left.I am tempted to buy it, my only concerns are it looks like the fitment would be susceptible to cross threading and I'm not sure what the diameter is vis-s-vis my butt, which is about 31.3mm/1.23" - it would be nice to have them both the same diameter. All my cues have this butt diameter but I've never handled a Tiger.

The cross threading may nothing to worry about; pretty sure I've seen Dennis O using this in matches and he just grabs it an winds it on.
Click to expand...
If the hole is recessed for the bolt, the R6 would just screw on and no mods needed. The brass is the bolt that gets installed into the extension, and the bumper and steel gets threaded in to the butt
r6ext_2048x2048.jpg
 
Protractor

Protractor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dave38 said:
If the hole is recessed for the bolt, the R6 would just screw on and no mods needed. The brass is the bolt that gets installed into the extension, and the bumper and steel gets threaded in to the butt
View attachment 518530
Click to expand...

Yes thanks, I figured that out from the photos on their website; one shows the brass extension pin separated from the bumper portion.

At this point I'm leaning toward the Tiger, with the issue being my buddy's health. He's been fighting heart issues and now he has to go in for a lower back spinal fusion so he is going to be out of pocket for making a custom butt, even if he survives all that.:(

I might be able to manage the Predator mod and could source the set screw weight bolts that would likely be required in any case.
 
Kim Bye

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I do them all the time. Old Predator cues have 3/8-16 weightbolts, the new cues have the Uni-loc weightbolts, they are M16x1.5, just like the bumper. The first Predator extensions actually used a aluminum Radial pin. The new ones use the Uni-loc bullet joint, wich is not compatible with the normal Uni-loc pin.
I usually make a sleeve out of Juma, glue it in, then drill bore and ream and tap M16x1.5.
 
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Protractor

Protractor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks to all that have chimed in, the AZBilliards group is great!

I went ahead and ordered the 3/8" x 16 version of the Tiger X-Tension kit yesterday and it should be here in a few days. If I don't like it for some reason I'll probably go with the Prather kit if my buddy feels like tackling a custom butt extension. If not, I can't imagine he would have problems with implementing the Predator.

In any case, I'll update this post.

Thanks again for your time and help.
 
Protractor

Protractor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As promised, here is my feedback on the Tiger X-Tension 11" extension...

I have now had some time using the Tiger X-tension 11" extension and I like it, It appears to be very well made/well machined out of aluminum with a very grippy knurled surface. The only wart is that is that there are just a few threads that are engaged onto the flat head bolt that is part of the cue bumper assembly and that the bumper nestles tightly into the recess on the extension. This makes it a little tricky to quickly get it screwed on and attaches more reliably if you first backthread, wait for the click and screw it on.
 
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