I kind of agree with the official ruling by the league operator but I'd like to hear some opinions here. OK heres the situation. NAPL individual 9 ball league, Due to the handicap I get 3 games on the wire and the eight ball. The nine (or in my case the 8 or 9) must be called but if it's an obvious shot you don't have to call it. I get a very easy shot on the eight, completely obvious, the 8 is hanging on the corner and the cue is very close. I get it in but in a senior moment (LOL, I'm 63) I completely forget that I had the eight and went for the nine which I missed. My opponent then got the nine in. That's when I realized I made the eight and should have won. My opponent was actually willing to give it to me (not like Jason Shaw in the 14.1 against Earl, LOL) but to be fair with good sportsmanship I agreed to ask the league operator. He said that if I picked up the balls and didn't go for the nine it would be a win for me since it was an obvious shot (which would have put me on the hill) but the fact I continued showed I that there was no way I was calling the shot to win and gave the win to my opponent. Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut and accepted my opponent's concession but I do believe in good sportsmanship.
Opinions? Should I have won this game or lost? League operator ruled against me.
- Thread starter Jeff Rosen
- Start date
If you had of been playing me, I wouldn't even have let you take it to the LO. In my eyes, you won that game. Maybe not technically, but in my eyes you did what you needed to do as far as the handicap requirements go.
Here's another story for the thread. I had sat out a session of APA league because of all the BS that had been going on in said league. I had been playing in an 8-ball league that used BCAPL rules for about six months. So...first night back I get put up against a SL4 (I was a SL5), so I was spotting him a game. He won the lag and broke-and-ran the first rack. Then he broke dry and I made five balls then missed. He ran his seven balls, got bad shape on the 8 and missed, leaving it hanging in the shelf in the middle of a corner pocket. The two balls I had left were lined up perfectly for an easy run out. I shoot my two object balls and immediately sank the 8-ball. As soon as it went in, he called the game his because I didn't mark my pocket for the 8-ball (an APA rule). I asked him where in the hell else COULD I have shot it, I literally could not have touched that ball with the cue ball without making it in that corner pocket. He wouldn't budge, his captain only shrugged his shoulders, and I got screwed, at least in my eyes.
Point is...forget the technical side of the rule and look at the situation and decide the outcome by what is the "spirit" of the rule. In my case, the "spirit" of the rule should have allowed me my win simply because I had no need to mark a pocket when it was virtually impossible to make the 8-ball anywhere else. In your case, OP, it's a little bit not as clear cut, but I certainly would have called it a win for you.
I hate when crap like this happens. People have such a strong desire to win, they'll take one any way they can get it.
Before any smart a$$es quote my post and ask why don't we just throw all the rule books out the window, keep in mind the part about the "spirit" of any rule.
Sorry you had to take a loss in that game, Jeff. Bum deal IMO.
Maniac
Here's another story for the thread. I had sat out a session of APA league because of all the BS that had been going on in said league. I had been playing in an 8-ball league that used BCAPL rules for about six months. So...first night back I get put up against a SL4 (I was a SL5), so I was spotting him a game. He won the lag and broke-and-ran the first rack. Then he broke dry and I made five balls then missed. He ran his seven balls, got bad shape on the 8 and missed, leaving it hanging in the shelf in the middle of a corner pocket. The two balls I had left were lined up perfectly for an easy run out. I shoot my two object balls and immediately sank the 8-ball. As soon as it went in, he called the game his because I didn't mark my pocket for the 8-ball (an APA rule). I asked him where in the hell else COULD I have shot it, I literally could not have touched that ball with the cue ball without making it in that corner pocket. He wouldn't budge, his captain only shrugged his shoulders, and I got screwed, at least in my eyes.
Point is...forget the technical side of the rule and look at the situation and decide the outcome by what is the "spirit" of the rule. In my case, the "spirit" of the rule should have allowed me my win simply because I had no need to mark a pocket when it was virtually impossible to make the 8-ball anywhere else. In your case, OP, it's a little bit not as clear cut, but I certainly would have called it a win for you.
I hate when crap like this happens. People have such a strong desire to win, they'll take one any way they can get it.
Before any smart a$$es quote my post and ask why don't we just throw all the rule books out the window, keep in mind the part about the "spirit" of any rule.
Sorry you had to take a loss in that game, Jeff. Bum deal IMO.
Maniac
Not exactly the same but I have always played that if in Golf your opponent give you a "gimme" and you shoot anyway and miss, you miss.
If someone pockets the nine ball, and for whatever reason he's drunk or gets a phone call or whatever, and he doesn't acknowledge he's won in whatever way, I still think he's won the game. Now if he doesn't mark his score that is maybe another story. But if somebody came up and asked hey who won that last game and they both say he shot in the nine so he won that's it... that's the decision. That was your game. Over, the guy called it wrong. You can't stupid yourself out of winning a game unless it's not marking it and I don't feel that was the case here.
What is in a players head doesn't matter. What matters is what happens on the table. A player could get distracted just as he has won a game by a phone call, or he remember he left the stove on, or his daughter calls his name, or he's drunk. Just because he walks away from the table and isn't necessarily cognizant of his win at the moment, doesn't mean the victory just disappears. When the chips settle and everyone realizes what happened and they're all on the same page, the game clearly goes to the person who won it.
What is in a players head doesn't matter. What matters is what happens on the table. A player could get distracted just as he has won a game by a phone call, or he remember he left the stove on, or his daughter calls his name, or he's drunk. Just because he walks away from the table and isn't necessarily cognizant of his win at the moment, doesn't mean the victory just disappears. When the chips settle and everyone realizes what happened and they're all on the same page, the game clearly goes to the person who won it.
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That would be the game of life.
Game Over - pre established handicap.
In my opinion, answer given to you was derived from 8 ball. Let's say you have a easy shot and your opponent says " Good Game " before you shot, well, he conceded and if you walk away, it's a win, if you half heartedly shoot the 8 and miss it, they are saying you continued the game and it continues.
In your 9 ball match, you win whether you make the 8 or the 9 and you made the 8 Game over, for you in this situation, the 9 does not have to exist.
Bad Call in my opinion and feel they as well, fully did not comprehend what went on.
By the way, class act by your opponent.
In my opinion, answer given to you was derived from 8 ball. Let's say you have a easy shot and your opponent says " Good Game " before you shot, well, he conceded and if you walk away, it's a win, if you half heartedly shoot the 8 and miss it, they are saying you continued the game and it continues.
In your 9 ball match, you win whether you make the 8 or the 9 and you made the 8 Game over, for you in this situation, the 9 does not have to exist.
Bad Call in my opinion and feel they as well, fully did not comprehend what went on.
By the way, class act by your opponent.
I will play devil's advocate here and have to agree with the LO's ruling. Unfortunately, you didn't pay attention and MUST call the 8 or 9 to win, seems pretty clear cut to me? :grin:
I would rule you won the game.
I've seen this happen in 9 ball...in fact, one time I broke in the 9 ball, then ran all the way to the 7 before realizing it wasn't on the table. When I realized I made it on the break my opponent and I looked at each other, shrugged, and I marked my game.
Suppose you're racing to 5, but you think you're racing to 6, so after getting to 5 you rack and break again...does that mean you didn't win the set? Of course not.
The idea that continuing to shoot means you didn't call a hanging ball seems absurd to me. Game over baby.
I've seen this happen in 9 ball...in fact, one time I broke in the 9 ball, then ran all the way to the 7 before realizing it wasn't on the table. When I realized I made it on the break my opponent and I looked at each other, shrugged, and I marked my game.
Suppose you're racing to 5, but you think you're racing to 6, so after getting to 5 you rack and break again...does that mean you didn't win the set? Of course not.
The idea that continuing to shoot means you didn't call a hanging ball seems absurd to me. Game over baby.
Then you would be wrong.
In golf, when a shot or a hole is conceded, the other player may still play that shot or other shots on the hole just completed (for practice) as long as play behind them is not being held up. Check the rules for match play. Or watch the Ryder cup or US Amateur sometime - this happens all the time.
As far as the original post is concerned, it seems to me that the league operator is saying that the game-winning ball HAS to be called, even if obvious shot.
The rules do say to mark the pocket and I have seen people at higher level tournaments pull the "just call it" and then they call a loss in a match losing situation because you didn't mark it. People are shady, just as the person you were playing was. Funny thing is, if he had marked that pocket and then left his mark there, you could use it as well without having to retouch it, call it or anything else as the pocket is already marked. I have done that to people before.
Look at it from the positive side, as a 4 he won at least 2 of the 3 games as if he was shooting like a 6 or 7 and it was noted by the computer.
Not very common for a 4 to break and run a table, especially on a bar table.
You did win the game IMHO.
How it is recorded is another matter. You apparently decided to seek a ruling as I understand it, and it didn't go your way. But you certainly still won.
The real question would be whether you should have sought the ruling I think.
How is that being fair? The opponents conceded, or as you put it "was actually willing to give it to me". That's it. Done. What is fair about seeking a ruling on a conceded game?
To be fair and honest you only needed to seek a ruling on whether or not your opponent was allowed to concede. Clearly that would be silly to do, but that's it, that's all.
How and why was it fair to seek the ruling the way you did? That's how you got into this conundrum. The actions don't make sense, it does not add up, it is illogical.
That's how I see it.
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I have a question for you. Which matters more to you, winning or how you carried yourself?
You won the game, missing the 9 was not relevant at all as that game was over already
That's how I see it.
The moderators should institute a rule - before someone tells the story about what happened in a league the issue of whether or not alcohol and/or drugs were a factor should be included. If so then how much and what kind of alcohol and/or drugs should be revealed.
These stories need more context.
These stories need more context.
If I understand you correctly you are given the 8 . I always understood giving some one the 8 means if you pocket the 7 legally you do not have to even pocket the 8 .
If you have to pocket the 8 you are in fact only given the 9 the way I see it.
As for not calling the 8...i give hangers personally . Regardless...chalk it up to some one is always going to use whatever rules that are playing by to their advantage..
Had a similar situation last session 6 was playing another 6 in 8 ball and it got to hill-hill.
My player points at the corner pocket where the 8 was only 3-4 inches away from. He pockets it and goes to shake his opponents hand. The other guy refuses to shake his hand and says my player lost because he sis not mark the pocket.
Believe me...i went ballistic and told him it was a bs call as neither player had marked the pocket the entire match..
I did relent and accept the loss because a rule is a rule. As they say...karma is a b*tch.
I made them forfeit the last 8 and 9 ball matches because they only had 4 players there. That is the first time I ever made a team forfeit and would have not done I that night if they had not made that bs call on my player earlier.
Their turn to go ballistic and even called the lo. He explained just because replays are allowed and basically every one allows it ...it is not mandatory to allow replays.
Rules are rules :grin:
If you have to pocket the 8 you are in fact only given the 9 the way I see it.
As for not calling the 8...i give hangers personally . Regardless...chalk it up to some one is always going to use whatever rules that are playing by to their advantage..
Had a similar situation last session 6 was playing another 6 in 8 ball and it got to hill-hill.
My player points at the corner pocket where the 8 was only 3-4 inches away from. He pockets it and goes to shake his opponents hand. The other guy refuses to shake his hand and says my player lost because he sis not mark the pocket.
Believe me...i went ballistic and told him it was a bs call as neither player had marked the pocket the entire match..
I did relent and accept the loss because a rule is a rule. As they say...karma is a b*tch.
I made them forfeit the last 8 and 9 ball matches because they only had 4 players there. That is the first time I ever made a team forfeit and would have not done I that night if they had not made that bs call on my player earlier.
Their turn to go ballistic and even called the lo. He explained just because replays are allowed and basically every one allows it ...it is not mandatory to allow replays.
Rules are rules :grin: