why

MANPUSS said:

dont sellers of cues just add the paypal 4 percent and goods and services ??

ive turned down a few because of it , if you are selling its on you . it urks me . anyone who uses free family and friends for expensive cues is just crazy .

atleast the seller can incorporate it in price and not tell you that way it wouldnt urk so many folks . maybe im wrong . maybe just me but it bothers me lol

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I always cover the PayPal fees and shipping in everything I sell on AZ. It just makes it a lot easier.

-don

I agree. Price it into the total amount. I'd rather deal with someone using the regular PP for goods and services, which comes with PP coverage.

The folks here seem several degrees more trustworthy than some random on Craigslist, but it's still nice to have the coverage available.

It allows sellers to say this is what I want and I am not willing to take less.

Paypal dings them a seller’s fee for the purchase of goods or services.

That’s like you telling the clothing store I’ll pay $100 for the jacket but no sales tax.

The store isn’t going to pay your sales tax. Send a certified bank check....see what it costs you.

Same difference.....you don’t want to pay more and the seller doesn’t want to receive less.

So that’s why some sellers state if you use Paypal, then add 4%. You can always use a bank check.

MANPUSS said:

dont sellers of cues just add the paypal 4 percent and goods and services ??

ive turned down a few because of it , if you are selling its on you . it urks me . anyone who uses free family and friends for expensive cues is just crazy .

atleast the seller can incorporate it in price and not tell you that way it wouldnt urk so many folks . maybe im wrong . maybe just me but it bothers me lol

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I agree! PayPal is 2.9% plus $0.30 for sales within the US. Pet peeve of mine also.

What’s the difference whether you pay less but it doesn’t include shipping and PayPal/cc charges or you pay more but it includes PayPal/cc charges and shipping? Bottom line is if you can find the exact same cue from someone else for $ less total cost, then buy it.

Why? Because it is tolerated.

Look at it as an indicator of who not to deal with.

There’s two groups that a big portion of sellers on places like Facebook fall into, each with their own reasoning for requesting f&f payment.

1. The people that sell their production cues, cases, balls, etc on Facebook or elsewhere that have list prices barely under retail. Their deals never make a lot of sense, but including PayPal fees into their asking price would basically put them at new MSRP prices so they won’t do it. So people take big risks and send their money to them as f&f all to save $10 on a shaft as opposed to buying a brand new one from a recognized distribution.

2. The people who sell raffle, razzle, etc tickets. These people are actively breaking both the Facebook and PayPal terms of service so they always want you to send payment as friends and family only and include no information about what the money is for.

In the end, I mostly browse these buy/sell groups to look at pictures of cool cues as opposed to any real interest in buying anything. I just have a hard time paying anything close to retail for used items off of someone who I don’t know.

I have bought some stuff on here from members : 4 or 5 cues- most over $1,000 and some other balls and cases. I have done the F&F Pay Pal thing if requested since my Pay Pal is paid with my credit card and my card company stands behind me on every dispute that I ever had to initiate including a $1,000 moving company dispute that I won

I never had to dispute a purchase from the guys on this site- all went perfect! However, as a seller I personally would not ask people to add 4% if they want to pay regular Pay Pal- I would just price or negotiate to a final sales figure that I can accept. I do believe that sellers fees should be sellers fees and yes, I think it colors my opinion of the seller a bit- but I do accept it if the final buying price is one that I agree for the purchase.

I DO NOT purposely avoid a seller if they have a billiard item that I desire, just because they want F&F or 4%, in the end, I have to authorize my payment, so it is my final decision.

when selling sometimes I will include paypal fees and sometimes not.

In high end cue sales, say as an example a $5k cue, there is going to be a $150 charge on paypal then another ~$80 to insure it so if you are selling on tight margins it can matter.

It doesn't make a seller a bad guy, imo, to ask that PP fees be covered but it should be at the actual 3% and not more. And NEVER ask for Friends & Family payment.

If you see a cue you really like don't let a seller asking for PP fee stand in the way. Do the math and if you feel it's a good value, then go. If the 3% bothers you, ask the seller if you can send money order.

I always offer the money order option.

best,
brian kc

mikemosconi said:

I have bought some stuff on here from members : 4 or 5 cues- most over $1,000 and some other balls and cases. I have done the F&F Pay Pal thing if requested since my Pay Pal is paid with my credit card and my card company stands behind me on every dispute that I ever had to initiate including a $1,000 moving company dispute that I won

I never had to dispute a purchase from the guys on this site- all went perfect! However, as a seller I personally would not ask people to add 4% if they want to pay regular Pay Pal- I would just price or negotiate to a final sales figure that I can accept. I do believe that sellers fees should be sellers fees and yes, I think it colors my opinion of the seller a bit- but I do accept it if the final buying price is one that I agree for the purchase.

I DO NOT purposely avoid a seller if they have a billiard item that I desire, just because they want F&F or 4%, in the end, I have to authorize my payment, so it is my final decision.

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How can you dispute the F&F Paypal thing, I thought Paypal lists it as being a gift???
If so you are basically telling your CC company you are committing fraud, aren't you??

As a buyer or seller I wouldnt try to skate around the charges, it can protect both. Besides, its only 4%.

The reality is that the admin/ mods of this site don’t give a flying **** about integrity. There are many other prominent websites in which you get a swift ban for even the mention of using a non buyer secured payment method. The fact that this is the main, and most popular billiards website/forum and yet we have the worst ran website there is basically is saddening. A complete disappoint to the members who rely on those people in positions of power to work things out.

I think in a perfect pool world where sellers acted like a business and not flea market vendors, a seller would understand that

a) It's his job to specify shipping method and pay for insurance or self-insure. His job is not done until the cue is in the buyer's hands.

b) Decide and specify what forms of payment they will take. If Paypal is accepted and costs more...just say so.

I really don't care as a buyer who "pays" the fees if it's Paypal...the reality is the buyer always pays. Buyers just need to decide how much they will pay to get the in their hands and stop being such nits about how that number is broken down. If a seller wants to play word games about who pays what, have at it, the number at the bottom of the page is all I care about.

Do people really think "free shipping" is free? No. "free shipping" means the cost is built in.

I don't use F&F for purchases for two reasons:

1.) It offers no buyer protection
2.) It's against PayPal's terms and services

I've used it plenty for sending money to friends or relatives, but for actual purchases it's cleaner to use goods and services. When I'm selling, I also request buyers use a standard paypal payment for that exact reason.

I'm not chastising anybody for using F&F, but to me the fee is just part of using the service.

I just cover it in my cost. If someone asks for 4% they are trying to make money since it is 2.9% to begin with.

cubswin said:

I just cover it in my cost. If someone asks for 4% they are trying to make money since it is 2.9% to begin with.

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Don’t forget the + 30¢.

Hits 'em Hard said:

Don’t forget the + 30¢.

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I do always forget the 30 cents.

I don't get where this 4 or 5% number comes from, other than folks wanting to make a extra 10-20 bucks.

I figure most people that want friends and family are either trying to scam or are afraid of a charge back. In the later case don't take paypal as a payment, because unless I know you I'm not sending money f/f.