CTE Visuals

bwally

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First of all thank you Stan Shuffet for your work on this system. I have been a ghost ball, point of contact, feel players. Recently I got tired of "guessing" and wanted to find something more reliable. This lead me to CTE and all I can say is WOW! once I picked up and understood what visuals I was looking for the light bulb went off.

My question though is I still don't understand the sweeps. I must be doing them subconscious because I am locked in every time I get down on the shot. I do plan on buying Stans DVD'S soon.

Sent from my GT-P5110 using Tapatalk
 

Sloppy Pockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First of all thank you Stan Shuffet for your work on this system. I have been a ghost ball, point of contact, feel players. Recently I got tired of "guessing" and wanted to find something more reliable. This lead me to CTE and all I can say is WOW! once I picked up and understood what visuals I was looking for the light bulb went off.

My question though is I still don't understand the sweeps. I must be doing them subconscious because I am locked in every time I get down on the shot. I do plan on buying Stans DVD'S soon.

Sent from my GT-P5110 using Tapatalk

I rarely say anything on these aiming threads because of all the attacks made on folks whose opinions differ from yours. What I often see that really bothers me, though, is that the aiming system guys can call all the feel players "guessers", but we guessers are not allowed to say anything derogatory about aiming systems or risk banishment.

So, for the record, there is nothing close to guessing when I make a shot. If I see the shot, I know it's on. If I miss I can clearly see how I missed, by how much, and know which side of the pocket and by about how much it'll miss by, usually well before the balls even collide. If it's just guessing, how would I have a clue until the balls stopped rolling?

Now, there are days that I just can't find my alignment, and I do struggle. But I never guess. If I'm not shooting well I know it's because either:

1) I am not seeing the CB-OB connection correctly.

2) I am being too lackadaisical about my stroke.

Sometimes when I'm practicing and I just cannot see the correct lines that well and I know I can't, I play a little game with myself. If I feel I might miss the shot, I'll try to predict which side I think it might miss by. I say, either "under-cut" or "over-cut" in my head, and then take the shot anyway and see if I was right. I almost always am. I believe my feel for the angles has actually improved more from doing this than it has by actually making balls right down the heart of the pocket.
 

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
I rarely say anything on these aiming threads because of all the attacks made on folks whose opinions differ from yours. What I often see that really bothers me, though, is that the aiming system guys can call all the feel players "guessers", but we guessers are not allowed to say anything derogatory about aiming systems or risk banishment.

So, for the record, there is nothing close to guessing when I make a shot. If I see the shot, I know it's on. If I miss I can clearly see how I missed, by how much, and know which side of the pocket and by about how much it'll miss by, usually well before the balls even collide. If it's just guessing, how would I have a clue until the balls stopped rolling?

Now, there are days that I just can't find my alignment, and I do struggle. But I never guess. If I'm not shooting well I know it's because either:

1) I am not seeing the CB-OB connection correctly.

2) I am being too lackadaisical about my stroke.

Sometimes when I'm practicing and I just cannot see the correct lines that well and I know I can't, I play a little game with myself. If I feel I might miss the shot, I'll try to predict which side I think it might miss by. I say, either "under-cut" or "over-cut" in my head, and then take the shot anyway and see if I was right. I almost always am. I believe my feel for the angles has actually improved more from doing this than it has by actually making balls right down the heart of the pocket.

Hi Sloppy Pockets!

Now I'm not interesting in name calling and pointing fingers at who starts arguments, and I agree there is to much of that around here and I'm not sure how to address it. But we can simply avoid that.

Anyways I just thought I'd share my experiences with the above discussion, basically comparing CTE to other aiming methods or systems.

Firstly, everyone uses a system. You can try to draw a line in the sand and contrast a system to a non-system, say CTE and purely by "feel", but even purely by "feel" is a system. That is, each time you approach a shot, you go through a PSR that puts the ball to the hole. You refine that PSR until the consistency is to your liking. It doesn't matter what it is, its a system. So we can put that argument to rest.

Secondly, I believe that shot making is 50% aim and 50% stroke. You cannot have one without the other. You can argue all day about what is aim and what is stroke, but in the end we know that you can't have one without the other.

Now, I played "by feel" or "ghostball" or whatever you wanted to label it for many years. There is nothing wrong with this method, and obviously a lot of players play at very high levels with such a system. On the contrary, there are a lot of professional and amateur CTE method users that also play at a very high level. So for the most part, it can be a matter of preference. Here is my contrast between the two systems:

Ghostball is all about shot recall. You stand behind the shot and see a specific "shot picture", or how the CB->OB->Pocket relationship is on the table. Through recall you line up the shot and stroke it down. Through tremendous hours of practice you learn every shot picture in every possible scenario and recall how to properly line up and stroke the shot. You also recall misses of similar shots, and what you did to correct or improve it. This is exactly how a huge number of pool players play pool all their lives.

Now the difference between this type of system and CTE is that CTE adds an objective element to the game, and that is the use of centers and edges as a starting point for every shot. Centers and edges are VERY objective, its much the same as shooting a half-ball hit or a straight-in shot. there really is very little judgement required on such a shot you just have to shoot straight with good stroke.

And its not just objectivity.. these visuals are always exactly a 1/2 tip movement from the shot line. Therefore, you can fall into a very robotic repeatable approach to every shot, resulting in extremely consistent results. Back this routine up with a solid stroke and you have a very powerful weapon. The advantages of CTE really shine when you come across longer shots, thinner cuts and banks where the pocket is nowhere in sight. Now a ghostballer will memorize diamond systems and line up on targets along the rail. As a CTE user, again I'm only recognizing a specific visual then lock, sweep, shoot.

So to summarize that, ghostball uses shot recall to refine each and every shot to a very specific "tick" on the CB to a "tick" on the OB, where as CTE is more of choosing from a handful of visuals, each bringing you to those same exact "ticks" through a very repeatable PSR of visual lock, sweep, shoot. That said, all the nuances of the game such a shooting off-center, CIT, slow cloth, "cling", etc. play a role in the game. An aiming system simply gives you a solid base-line. There is no magic ball pocketing system, you have to put in effort to reap the results.

Now of course a very high level of play can be obtained by whatever system you use. They are all valid and will all require their own level of practice and patience, and this will all highly hinge on a players physical abilities and experience and knowledge they have collected over years of play, and what works best for them.

For me, CTE took me to the next level. Very clearly. I cannot say for fact that this would be exactly the same experience for everyone if they put in the effort to switch, but we'll leave that argument for someone else :)
 

duckie

GregH
Silver Member
If ghost ball is all recall, how can I make a shot and get position doing a shot I've never done before?

It is impossible to do all the variety of shots in pool. If you think that ghost ball is all about recall, you are wrong.

Better read this so you know the difference between objective and subjective.
http://www.asdatoz.com/Documents/Website- Objective vs subjective ltr.pdf

All aiming in pool is subjective. Aiming a rifle is objective cause you can point to, touch the sights. There is no aiming system that gives you objective things, things you can see and touch in pool.

There are no such things in aiming in pool. You can not prove that everyone is looking at the same center or edge.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
If ghost ball is all recall, how can I make a shot and get position doing a shot I've never done before?

It is impossible to do all the variety of shots in pool. If you think that ghost ball is all about recall, you are wrong.

Better read this so you know the difference between objective and subjective.
http://www.asdatoz.com/Documents/Website- Objective vs subjective ltr.pdf

All aiming in pool is subjective. Aiming a rifle is objective cause you can point to, touch the sights. There is no aiming system that gives you objective things, things you can see and touch in pool.

There are no such things in aiming in pool. You can not prove that everyone is looking at the same center or edge.

Dead wrong again. The balls are objects. Using them and portions of them as alignment guides is the same as using rifle sights.

You can certainly use GB to estimate any shot and some times you will guess correctly. Doesn't mean you can guess right more often than you are wrong.

Let's see you use GB to make six zig zag banks in a row like I did at Stans house the other day. From different positions. It will be almost impossible for you.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 

twinspinner76

New member
Went to see Stan in January after I had bought and tried to apply the material in his latest DVD. I had questions about the 30' and 45 and 60 degree perceptions. He said something in our lesson that Hal Houle said to him. "Find center to edge and fire." That has helped me so much in picking up my visuals. Now, as a disclaimer, this is how I do it and what works for me. First, I find cte line. If I pick up cte line correctly, then by default, my A, B, or C will be there giving me 2 fixed edges on the cue.' Try it. Pick up cte, once u feel u r locked in look for the cue ball edge line it should be A B or C depending on a left or right cut. Now, this doesn't work on the 45 or 60 degree perception because cte line is outside the edge of the ob. This is where knowing ur 15 and 30 perceptions will help u recognize when a cut is too thin and u will need to use the 45 or 60 perceptions. Here is a test I use when I have a thin cut that the 15 or 30 won't cut in. I look for the ghost ball. My tip should be aiming for the middle of the ghost ball when using this method. So, if I pick up cte and sweep, and my tip is inside of the ghost ball aim point, then I know for sure the 30 degree perception is too thick and I have go to the 45 or 60 perception. I am starting to see the 45 and 60 degree perceptions clearly after some practice and time at the table. Now, I don't have to use the ghost ball and compare because I have developed a visual reference. I know what a 45 and 60 degree perception looks like.

Again, this is how I took the info Stan taught me and put to use in my game. I hope this helped. In just 2 months of practicing his foundation course and cte my game has gone from solid a- to solid A. His stroke drills have helped me so much. My stroke feels better than it ever has.
 

bwally

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Which one is correct?
A:
rsxwo3rlgc4ksgzweyxn

or
B:
n4viuotoj6rasi73ss95
 

Attachments

  • CTE Visual Perceptions.jpg
    CTE Visual Perceptions.jpg
    75.9 KB · Views: 576
  • CTE Visual Perceptions-B.jpg
    CTE Visual Perceptions-B.jpg
    76.4 KB · Views: 472
Last edited:

bwally

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Done :thumbup:
 

Attachments

  • CTE Visual Perceptions-Final.jpg
    CTE Visual Perceptions-Final.jpg
    76.4 KB · Views: 741

nobcitypool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That looks quite good. If you want to get really, really picky, I'd have had the arrow heads on the CTE lines pointing the other way. You captured the essence of the whole thing very well though.
 

bwally

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That looks quite good. If you want to get really, really picky, I'd have had the arrow heads on the CTE lines pointing the other way. You captured the essence of the whole thing very well though.

Good point and thank you... It has been fun so far (a short while) working with this system. I have already realized some success with it (a 3rd place in our Provincial Championships). I suspect as I get a better grip on it there will be more improvement to come.. :)
 

Gerry Williams

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Provincial Championship - where are you from bwally?

Gerry

Good point and thank you... It has been fun so far (a short while) working with this system. I have already realized some success with it (a 3rd place in our Provincial Championships). I suspect as I get a better grip on it there will be more improvement to come.. :)
 

UpMySleeves

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was about to ask the same thing lol. We just had the VNEA Quebec Invitation this weeked. I couldn't be there this year but my brother was and said it was fun
 
Top