Jackpot Cues

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
Freddie, I just read that long response from Dean and tbh, nothing much seemed to be determined to me. He says *generous people who wish to remain anonymous* made the Jackpot cues. I read that as more sidestepping.

Dean also claimed that he said that Jack would be receiving help on these cues in his early sales ads, I don't recall any of that but I did read a number of times him saying that "Jack was making" the cues, an easy search will show those. There was even a thread he started on the Cue & Case gallery where he was run-off for placing a sales ad on the wrong forum and of all places (The Cue Gallery), he did so posting no pics.

Dean added in that thread "I hope to get Jack to post some pictures of himself and his latest cues"

I know how all of this strikes me; everyone has to make their own determinations. I'm not loving what he's done here.

best,
brian kc

My bad. Dean only revealed that Jack didn’t hands-on build the cues.

In the end, I don’t understand this thread’s direction. If people don’t want to buy one of these, is there really a reason for all the “controversy”? There’s seems to be no money risk (other than shipping back the cue, apparently). I’m having trouble finding the downside.

Has anyone actually returned one of these cues? Has anyone returned any of Dean’s cue deals?

Freddie <~~~ must be confused
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think 'making' can mean a lot of things and that's why there was no further disclosure about buy whom the work was done.

Agreed. In my industry, people say they “built” this or that, and we all understand that this means they came up with the idea or method, contracted the work out, managed the build process. Same goes in house building. The main contractor or developer isn’t the guy building the houses himself, but he’s still consider the home builder.

In this case, even in cue making, there are so many cue companies out there that the main guy isn’t the builder. For example, Layani Cues weren’t built by Thierry Layani. Ray Schuler had stopped building his cues the last several years of his life.

Freddie <~~~ built a million things :)
 

ideologist

I don't never exaggerate
Silver Member
EXTRA EXTRA READ ALL ABOUT IT

NEWS LOGICAL SAYS HE DOESN"T KNOW

it didn't stop him from writing about it

How would this play out in court
witness says he doesn't know if a crime has been commited

the judge says "then why are you here"

witness says "i just wanted to create suspicion and hurt someone if I could


Shrinks his shoulders"you know just kindaslander a guy without ever sayin nuthin"


The crime is being a spamming, hypersensitive shill. You have absolutely done that on many occasions, and now with trying to slide a few bucks into your buddy's pocket, you've ramped up to incredibly annoying levels.

Why not go take his last $5 and hustle it into a paycheck? Or go back some monster money players and everyone profits. You are the razor sharp gambler and the clairvoyant prognosticator of match players.

How would this play out in court? Harassment is a crime and people are tired of it. Every single post you make is an advertisement or a lead up to you selling later in the same thread.

Just stop it and keep your posting to the For Sale forum.
 

CuesDirectly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi David,

No that was a joke started by Bob Jewett. Dean doesn't speak Mandarin. It's probably a local cue maker (who may want to stay anonymous).

Agreed, Dean does not speak Mandarin.

He did speak with me a minute ago, in fact we talked for 30 minutes, super nice guy.

I held firm, he needs the Gold.

I did ask who made them and all I will say is not Chinese.
 

Gatto138

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In all honesty, to me $500 is a lot to gamble on a cue. I was offered to buy a jackpot for $250 and I still didn’t pick it up because to me that’s a lot to “gamble”. It did strike me as odd how one would sell for half price and not take a loss considering the initial $500 cost was a “steal”. It all seems like snake-oil. Especially the whole Tascarella debacle.
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
I think 'making' can mean a lot of things and that's why there was no further disclosure about buy whom the work was done.

No further disclosure because the seller wanted to present the cues in the best light, most desirable way possible. I say he would have called them "Libra" which are expensive collectibles but he wouldn't cross that huge line for some reason.

Now, having a cue made actually means you're not making the cue. Designing a cue is not actually making a cue, nor is consulting on it is "making a cue". You or they need to actually make a cue to say you or they made the cue.

Dean stated Jack made the cues. Jack did not even touch them. Hard to fog that up counsel.
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
Deleted because I'm just steamed at this point. Breakfast time.
 
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Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the end, I don’t understand this thread’s direction. If people don’t want to buy one of these, is there really a reason for all the “controversy”? There’s seems to be no money risk (other than shipping back the cue, apparently). I’m having trouble finding the downside.

Somehow you are missing the importance of candor. The non-monetary, moral dimension of life matters - far more than the monetary one. In this context, some buyers of cues may care only about performance, but many value knowing that the cue they’ve purchased was made by - and not just designed and inspected by - the advertised cue maker. Upon learning - shortly after purchase or some years later - that their cue was actually not made by the advertised cue maker, how do you think they feel?

As for the monetary side of things, if a cue owner, having learned that the maker of his cue is not “Maker X” as previously (and reasonably) believed, but is unknown, decides to sell the cue at some point, a straight moral compass on his part will require him to tell the prospective purchaser that the cue was made by an unknown cue maker. That isn’t desirable, obviously.

Does “made by” mean “without any assistance”? Of course not. But it certainly means more than designed by and inspected by. As TATE rightly said in an earlier post, transparency is expected. Being transparent is also the right thing to do. Check out Bob Dzuricky’s disclosures about the source of the blanks used in his sneaky pete cues. http://dzcues.com/prices.html That’s the way it should be done.

Consumer protection laws and agencies came to be, even though fraud had long been the basis for a claim for damages by a purchaser, because of the recognition that unfair or deceptive trade practices cause harm that should be prevented by means other than individual demands for refunds (and lawsuits where refunds are not provided). Among the other victims of unfair or deceptive trade practices are competitors. In the cue selling world, every cue sold by one seller usually means a cue not sold by another seller.

I’m not commenting on this particular situation or the ethics of those involved. But I felt that the “no harm, no foul” view required a response.
 

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
I guess the question then would be how good do you play?

Only then will your criteria for what you look for in a cue be in perspective. Or relevant for that matter.

As far as being worried about the shipping costs? See "nit" for clarification.

It doesn't matter how good I play. If the cue feels good and brings me to a happy place, that's ALL that matters.

Me, being retired and on a fixed income with enormous yearly medical bills, every little dime I spend matters to me. Maybe someday you'll find that out.

Nit.

Maniac
 

ideologist

I don't never exaggerate
Silver Member
My bad. Dean only revealed that Jack didn’t hands-on build the cues.

In the end, I don’t understand this thread’s direction. If people don’t want to buy one of these, is there really a reason for all the “controversy”? There’s seems to be no money risk (other than shipping back the cue, apparently). I’m having trouble finding the downside.

Has anyone actually returned one of these cues? Has anyone returned any of Dean’s cue deals?

Freddie <~~~ must be confused

If you bought a Joss to find out it was made in a shop in the Philippines, but liked the way it plays, do you think it is worth the same thing?

Good luck saying these cues were made by the man behind Libra cues now.

A lot of cue buyers care about pedigree.

A lot of people care about honesty.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think the majority of opinions here are that the marketing was intentionally vague or intentionally deceitful ...or any measure between those two.

Just for giggles, let's say the person(s) who did the actual work are established people whose own wares are higher priced than where dean wanted the jackpots to come in? And through the kindness of a friend, they pumped out a quick run for dean and jack, under the agreement their involvement would not be disclosed, as such disclosure would be reasonably expected to devalue their own cues or cannibalize their sales.

Does that possibility change anybody's degree of displeasure?
Somehow you are missing the importance of candor. The non-monetary, moral dimension of life matters - far more than the monetary one. In this context, some buyers of cues may care only about performance, but many value knowing that the cue they’ve purchased was made by - and not just designed and inspected by - the advertised cue maker. Upon learning - shortly after purchase or some years later - that their cue was actually not made by the advertised cue maker, how do you think they feel?

As for the monetary side of things, if a cue owner, having learned that the maker of his cue is not “Maker X” as previously (and reasonably) believed, but is unknown, decides to sell the cue at some point, a straight moral compass on his part will require him to tell the prospective purchaser that the cue was made by an unknown cue maker. That isn’t desirable, obviously.

Does “made by” mean “without any assistance”? Of course not. But it certainly means more than designed by and inspected by. As TATE rightly said in an earlier post, transparency is expected. Being transparent is also the right thing to do. Check out Bob Dzuricky’s disclosures about the source of the blanks used in his sneaky pete cues. http://dzcues.com/prices.html That’s the way it should be done.

Consumer protection laws and agencies came to be, even though fraud had long been the basis for a claim for damages by a purchaser, because of the recognition that unfair or deceptive trade practices cause harm that should be prevented by means other than individual demands for refunds (and lawsuits where refunds are not provided). Among the other victims of unfair or deceptive trade practices are competitors. In the cue selling world, every cue sold by one seller usually means a cue not sold by another seller.

I’m not commenting on this particular situation or the ethics of those involved. But I felt that the “no harm, no foul” view required a response.
 

Kickin' Chicken

Kick Shot Aficionado
Silver Member
I think the majority of opinions here are that the marketing was intentionally vague or intentionally deceitful ...or any measure between those two.

Just for giggles, let's say the person(s) who did the actual work are established people whose own wares are higher priced than where dean wanted the jackpots to come in? And through the kindness of a friend, they pumped out a quick run for dean and jack, under the agreement their involvement would not be disclosed, as such disclosure would be reasonably expected to devalue their own cues or cannibalize their sales.

Does that possibility change anybody's degree of displeasure?

it doesn't seem right to head in such a highly speculative hypothetical direction when there are so many known facts upon which to form our opinions.

imo
 

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
Now, having a cue made actually means you're not making the cue. Designing a cue is not actually making a cue, nor is consulting on it is "making a cue". You or they need to actually make a cue to say you or they made the cue.

Dean stated Jack made the cues. Jack did not even touch them. Hard to fog that up counsel.

I build AR-15's as a hobby. I build them from the ground up by myself. If I were to sell you one, I would tell you that I built it.

Now, if I had my son install the barrel and torque-down the barrel nut, or he installed the trigger group, or installed the gas block/tube, or any other part, then I would tell you before buying that my son and I built the rifle.

If I didn't do all the work, then I cannot take credit for it. IMHO, this is why I take the term "custom built cues by___(insert name here)___" with a grain of salt.

This appears to be the issue with these Jackpot cues.

Maniac
 

JC

Coos Cues
It doesn't matter how good I play. If the cue feels good and brings me to a happy place, that's ALL that matters.

Me, being retired and on a fixed income with enormous yearly medical bills, every little dime I spend matters to me. Maybe someday you'll find that out.

Nit.

Maniac

It's just that I can't tell you the times I've heard players who can't play a lick critiquing how a cue plays.

Kind of silly when you ponder it.
 

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
It's just that I can't tell you the times I've heard players who can't play a lick critiquing how a cue plays.

Kind of silly when you ponder it.

So a crappy player is just as well off playing with a cue that feels like sh*t in his hands as opposed to one that actually feels good to him?

I'm not seeing the logic in this.

And yes....even a crappy player can tell what does and doesn't feel good to him. They're not Neanderthals. :D

Maniac
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
I think the majority of opinions here are that the marketing was intentionally vague or intentionally deceitful ...or any measure between those two.

Just for giggles, let's say the person(s) who did the actual work are established people whose own wares are higher priced than where dean wanted the jackpots to come in? And through the kindness of a friend, they pumped out a quick run for dean and jack, under the agreement their involvement would not be disclosed, as such disclosure would be reasonably expected to devalue their own cues or cannibalize their sales.

Does that possibility change anybody's degree of displeasure?

Extremely unlikely. Truly famous maker's would have no time for these cues, even doing a favor.

Walter, it's a simple selling gimmick. It's plain as day. He used the word "Libra" all over the place, then "Jack Potter made". There's no decision what to what bullshit story to believe. Believe none of it.

The thing that's pissing me off is Dean still won't come clean even after signing his own confession. This is a perfect example of how not to handle your public relations in business.
 
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a1712

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think the majority of opinions here are that the marketing was intentionally vague or intentionally deceitful ...or any measure between those two.

Just for giggles, let's say the person(s) who did the actual work are established people whose own wares are higher priced than where dean wanted the jackpots to come in? And through the kindness of a friend, they pumped out a quick run for dean and jack, under the agreement their involvement would not be disclosed, as such disclosure would be reasonably expected to devalue their own cues or cannibalize their sales.

Does that possibility change anybody's degree of displeasure?

Just for giggles, let's say he sourced the cues from Asia for $32.93 a piece, shilled them on here using Libra and Jack Potters great reputation, then sold them to the Forum Members for $500 then the second batch for $600 a poke. Purely hypothetical of course. Brian.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just for giggles, let's say he sourced the cues from Asia for $32.93 a piece, shilled them on here using Libra and Jack Potters great reputation, then sold them to the Forum Members for $500 then the second batch for $600 a poke. Purely hypothetical of course. Brian.

Pool cue secrets they don't want you to know about.
 
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