More english with a heavy cue?
- Thread starter alphadog
- Start date
I honestly dont know but for me English and spin increased with a lighter cue with a smaller tip . I went from 19.5 cue with 12.75 tip down 19 and 11.5 and 11.85 on shafts.
If you hit the cue ball the same distance from center and get it moving forward at the same speed and without a miscue, you will have the same spin/speed ratio. The weight of the cue stick doesn't change that.
There is some evidence that a lighter stick will allow you to hit farther from center under some conditions. A lighter stick requires higher hand speed to get the same ball speed as a heavier stick.
That’s a good question asked in an intelligent way.
Theoretical physics ...yes vs applied physics....no.
As a geophysicist I’d answer ‘it depends’.
I personally get more Spin and action using the 9.5 tip on my Snooker cue. However, this is from it being more more efficient in the use of energy than the amount of energy. I’m not going to impart energy with precision using a blunter surface. Thus Why a thin nail penetrates a hard surface. However a very controlled and targeted use of force on a blunter object can depart more energy but more precision Is needed. A trick masse shot needs both energy and precision.
Theoretical physics ...yes vs applied physics....no.
As a geophysicist I’d answer ‘it depends’.
I personally get more Spin and action using the 9.5 tip on my Snooker cue. However, this is from it being more more efficient in the use of energy than the amount of energy. I’m not going to impart energy with precision using a blunter surface. Thus Why a thin nail penetrates a hard surface. However a very controlled and targeted use of force on a blunter object can depart more energy but more precision Is needed. A trick masse shot needs both energy and precision.
I suppose you mean the same energy concentrated in a smaller spot on the CB produces a greater spin/speed ratio? I don't see how that works.
pj
chgo
I believe that the biggest affect on cue ball movement either right or left spin - draw or follow - is the stroke of the cue stick through the cue ball. The most important lesson in pool playing was taught to me by Mike Zuglan of Joss Tour fame - at the height of his playing days in 1992. Mike emphasized " let the cue stick do the work" - in other words, it is the cue stick passing fluidly all the way through the cue ball that imparts the most cue ball movement without trying to "force" cue ball movement with excessive speed.
The more refined strokes will result in the most efficient cue ball movement at the lowest speeds necessary- thus making the pocketing of the object ball less prone to pocket rattle and more accurate.
All the great players today are very straight shooters without great speed of stroke- yet possess the ability to move the cue ball for great position play- otherwise you would never see the level of professional play that we now witness on Diamond tables with pro- cut pockets. " Let the cue stick do the work" - not your muscles!
The more refined strokes will result in the most efficient cue ball movement at the lowest speeds necessary- thus making the pocketing of the object ball less prone to pocket rattle and more accurate.
All the great players today are very straight shooters without great speed of stroke- yet possess the ability to move the cue ball for great position play- otherwise you would never see the level of professional play that we now witness on Diamond tables with pro- cut pockets. " Let the cue stick do the work" - not your muscles!
Exactly what I am pondering. Koehler wrote the heavier cue imparts more english.
That's true if it is moving at the same speed along the same path. It will also impart more speed. Or, you can move the lighter stick slightly faster.
So whether swinging a heavier cue at the same speed or a lighter cue faster, it's the arm that "imparts more" - the cue is just the messenger.
pj
chgo
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The vector to spin ratio varies somewhat with the speed of stroke. A human shooter using only a free swing will experience only the default zone of the cue weight. IOW safety bunts and rail nurses differ from break shots.
I get more out of an open bridge. However, it’s more due to my lack of experience using a closed bridge...so my technique likely isn’t as efficient.
Some players who mostly use an open bridge will use a closed bridge when breaking or When tight against a rail at a difficult angle.
Both of those statements can be true - you might be more accurate with your preferred bridge, or more confident hitting farther out. There's no reason the bridges themselves would perform differently.
I use both (mostly open) and have never noticed a difference.
pj
chgo
I took a lesson from Joe Frady and that man could stroke a cue ball with any cue you put in his hands. He made moving the ball seem effortless.
So to answer your question, just based on that alone, I would say it's not the cue, but the person wielding it. I'm sure the scientists will give a more educated answer though.
So to answer your question, just based on that alone, I would say it's not the cue, but the person wielding it. I'm sure the scientists will give a more educated answer though.
Excellent post! Spot on information! :thumbup:
Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
Actually, the cue could stop dead immediately after contact without “passing through” the CB at all and there would be no difference in CB action - assuming your stroke up to that point is the same. Only what happens up to and including contact matters to the CB.
pj
chgo
Yes, I understand your point- I use the term "passing through" just to emphasize that it is the stroke, not the weight of the cue stick that matters. Mike Zuglan's term "Let the cue stick do the work" is my all time favorite for mentally visualizing a proper pool stroke. A simple concept.
I agree. If people want more information on these and related topics, see:
Pool Cue Optimal Weight
Maximum Possible Spin
Draw Shot Cue Weight Effects
Getting More Spin With an LD Shaft of Tip of Different Size or Shape
Enjoy,
Dave
FYI, here's a quote from this page dealing with cue weight and maximum possible spin:
"When using a very heavy and/or stiff cue, the maximum tip offset (and maximum spin) possible with a good hit can be more limiting than normal (see optimal cue weight). As shown in the plots on pages 7 and 8 in TP A.30, with a hit close to the miscue limit, the CB might not separate from the tip fast enough. Also, with a stiff shaft (e.g., a carbon fiber shaft) the end of the cue won’t deflect away from the ball as much as normal and will tend to flex back toward the CB faster (see cue vibration for video illustrations). These effects can result in a double hit or push that might not even be directly noticeable; although, the CB will squirt more than expected (as with a miscue shot). The 2nd-to-last shot (before the miscue) in HSV A.106 visually shows how close the tip can come to a double hit even with a typical-weight LD shaft, which is not very stiff. For more info on this topic, see “Coriolis was brilliant … but he didn’t have a high-speed camera – Part IV: maximum cue tip offset” (BD, October, 2005). Another example of this from 2008 testing of a prototype cuttlefishcues carbon fiber shaft showing how a stiff shaft does not deflect away from the CB as much, and returns to the CB quickly, risking a double hit (see the shots with the black shaft in the video)."
Regards,
Dave