14.1 ----101
- Thread starter FranCrimi
- Start date
Fran,
With all due respect, this is a petty, semantic point and in my opinion is incorrect.
The World Straight Pool website refers to the matches as a "race to 200" (see http://worldstraightpool.com/2013_Files/16Chart.pdf).
News articles on the tournament also refer to the matches as a "race" (see http://www.nycgrind.com/the-latest/...erfect-200-semi-moves-final-thorsten-hohmann/).
Perhaps some prefer the terminology "XXX point game" instead of "race to XXX points," but it is by no means universal and in no way is the latter improper. Calling me out for some perceived lack of respect is uncalled for. Quite frankly, it's exclusionary attitudes like this that turn people off from the straight pool community.
- Geoff Bauer
Fran, I couldn't agree more. We are dinosaurs albeit I think I'm an older dinosaur. 
The new generation bastardizes lots of terms used in the past.
Its like that game where you whisper something in one persons ear and then pass it along a dozen more people. By the time it gets to the end, its altogether different.
The new generation bastardizes lots of terms used in the past.
Its like that game where you whisper something in one persons ear and then pass it along a dozen more people. By the time it gets to the end, its altogether different.
Of course it's universal. It's been the universal 14.1 term since the game began. Some players who played 9-ball before they started playing 14.1 didn't take the time to learn the proper terminology so they just applied what they knew.
It's irresponsible to not give a crap about preserving and respecting the culture of the game.
20 years
when my wife gets mad about something I always say, in 20 years are you going to even remember this, if not just let it go it is not that big a deal. The point is what you call it doesn't effect the game.
I am going to have to change that statement, because 20 years from now she probably will be senile.
when my wife gets mad about something I always say, in 20 years are you going to even remember this, if not just let it go it is not that big a deal. The point is what you call it doesn't effect the game.
I am going to have to change that statement, because 20 years from now she probably will be senile.
I think I understand exactly what Fran means. In my mind the term "race to" implies some helter skelter slam banging of balls around to see how they can smash their way to the end faster than the other guy.
The damned game of straight pool is an art form of the game. We ain't racing nowhere, we are creating art with each shot, with each rack.
Ha ha ... but that's me ... I can't even stand the term "shape". Get shape on this, get shape on that .... I get position, the shape is still round.
The damned game of straight pool is an art form of the game. We ain't racing nowhere, we are creating art with each shot, with each rack.
Ha ha ... but that's me ... I can't even stand the term "shape". Get shape on this, get shape on that .... I get position, the shape is still round.
Clearly it is not universal since the official brackets of the World Tournament are using "race," as are many articles on this tournament and on recent tournaments.
And I am baffled as to how a minor change in terminology, over time, can denigrate the "culture of the game." If the "culture of the game" involves jumping down the throat of anyone who uses (common) terminology that you don't approve of, I sincerely hope the culture of the game changes.
I understand that today one has to be "handicapped" in order to compete but I am from the old school. when the points were done at the end of the table. today the app calculates, balls made, misses, safeties, high run etc.....give it a rest, I like the "k.i.s.s" system. :sorry:
If I understand Fran correctly, she would prefer the World Tournament be contested on 5" pockets with slow nap cloth, inconsistent rails, balls that may or may not be quite round, where sharking among the players is tacitly accepted, and only white males are eligible to play, so long as the games are referred to as "XXX point games."
This is the culture of straight pool, after all. It's been that way since the game began.
This is the culture of straight pool, after all. It's been that way since the game began.
Not a good analogy. If your wife is anything like every other wife in the world, not only will she remember it, but she will hound you about it daily until you go to your grave.
She will reach in her tool box of *****in and moanin and pull it out to use on you at any and every opportunity that arises from now until the end of time.
I think this is no big deal. Like it or not, short-rack games dominate and the people who have only played those games will bring their own ways of speaking. That includes, it seems, the organizers of the recent World.
I think it would be better to spend one's energy urging the use refs and scorekeepers at 14.1 matches which is a far more useful tradition to try to uphold.
I think it would be better to spend one's energy urging the use refs and scorekeepers at 14.1 matches which is a far more useful tradition to try to uphold.
I agree (sorry, Fran).
On the one hand, "race" implies the wrong thing -- a set of "won racks" -- which is not at all the goal behind 14.1. When people say, "a race to 200" -- I'm thinking of a match exceeding the size of the Efren/Earl "Color of Money" monster.
However, keeping in mind where most of the folks that play 14.1 at a high level make their bread and butter (i.e. short-rack rotation), it's inevitable that some short-rack rotation "terminology leakage" is going to happen. This includes the current sponsors as well (i.e. Charlie Williams / Dragon Promotions). Do we straight pool enthusiasts like it? No -- it's kind of insulting when anything to do with short-rack rotation "bleeds" into our game. It's in our nature to correct people -- on the spot -- to "educate" them about our game, and continue doing this until it sinks in.
I think the effort spent pursuing pedantic terminology usage can better be redirected into and used for the actual conditions of matches themselves -- i.e. ensuring refs and scorekeepers are available for high-caliber matches, as Bob mentions. This is where the most good can be done with "corrective" action.
-Sean
I understand Fran's point of view. She most likely used the wrong words in her sentences to TSW. I can also understand TSW's views and the points that he made. I can & do adjust to the new ways but on the other hand. As a "Old School" player like myself, it is so nice to hear other players use the terminology that was used when I was growing up. Specially growing up in NY where Straight Pool was King. Let's shake hands.
PS: of course "shaking hands" now a days might be construed to be "Old School"... no telling.
PS: of course "shaking hands" now a days might be construed to be "Old School"... no telling.
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Fran, while i also cringe at some terminology creep -- the word "breakout" makes me crazy, like it's some special case that rarely happens instead of a constant in the game -- technically both "race" and "breakout" are correct, and it's sorta like when kids correct me as an audio professional (my day job) when i say "record" (as if the word implies only a round black object 12" in diameter instead of its derivation; they started doing this with cd's, but even an mp3 file is a "record"). we sometimes confuse the customary terminology for the only correct terminology.
[n.b. there are some really, Really, REALLY overworked terms in straight pool. i think the first person who uttered "manufactured" with respect to a break or key ball ought to be very proud (i'm betting it was Bill Staton). the rest of us should let go of the cliche Once in a While; the English language offers some alternatives]
anyway, i agree with Bob and Sean, and add that we need to in fact welcome rotation players into the game, warts and all. which, to their credit, i think people like Charlie Williams are doing.
i'm especially pleased when i hear people like Shaun Wilkie commentating on these 14.1 streams, because i think he works hard to legitimize straight pool to those who don't know the game, and he succeeds largely because he has come to the game from the rotation perspective and understands that perspective. that may well be more enabling of a new audience than the depth of knowledge of someone who's been playing straight pool for decades.
then once they're ensnared, they will either learn the finer points, or "corrupt" the game from some point of view. frankly, i care a lot about tradition (in several parts of my life). but i care much more about the tradition continuing than about it remaining pure.
[n.b. there are some really, Really, REALLY overworked terms in straight pool. i think the first person who uttered "manufactured" with respect to a break or key ball ought to be very proud (i'm betting it was Bill Staton). the rest of us should let go of the cliche Once in a While; the English language offers some alternatives]
anyway, i agree with Bob and Sean, and add that we need to in fact welcome rotation players into the game, warts and all. which, to their credit, i think people like Charlie Williams are doing.
i'm especially pleased when i hear people like Shaun Wilkie commentating on these 14.1 streams, because i think he works hard to legitimize straight pool to those who don't know the game, and he succeeds largely because he has come to the game from the rotation perspective and understands that perspective. that may well be more enabling of a new audience than the depth of knowledge of someone who's been playing straight pool for decades.
then once they're ensnared, they will either learn the finer points, or "corrupt" the game from some point of view. frankly, i care a lot about tradition (in several parts of my life). but i care much more about the tradition continuing than about it remaining pure.
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It's pretty straight forward. 'Race to' means games. 'Points' mean balls. I consider myself more of a rotation game player than a 14.1 player, but that doesn't mean I should ignore the proper terminology and just attach whatever label I feel like because I'm too damned lazy to do some homework.
This is nitpicky and semantic. It's not like the terminology doesn't make any sense- they're still racing to x points.
I'd suggest you pick your battles.
Thanks but I've been around pool for a long time. I'm right about this.
It's great you've been around pool a long time, and it's great you want to respect the tradition, but this is just so nitpicky and inconsequential.
Calling it a "race" to x points still makes logical sense, doesn't create any ambiguity like misappropriating another word or term would. You aren't picking your battles.
I'm new, but I respect tradition and like to know the proper terms.
probably a minor issue to most people however.