Hotel Kick-backs to Tournament Promoters

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A frequent practice in organizing a big event is for the promoter to receive a kick-back from the hotels where the players are staying. The hotel may increase its rates to compensate for the kick-back.

That means that the players are paying more than just their entry fee. They're also unknowingly contributing to the tournament 'added money' out of their own pockets.

When you have a group of people staying at a hotel for an event, the rates should be discounted, not inflated.

If you're thinking of attending an event, try to find out what the hotel normally would charge for that time of year if there hadn't been an event. Then compare it with the rate you have to pay. Is it discounted? It should be. Is it inflated? It shouldn't be.
 

dardusm

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A frequent practice in organizing a big event is for the promoter to receive a kick-back from the hotels where the players are staying. The hotel may increase its rates to compensate for the kick-back.

That means that the players are paying more than just their entry fee. They're also unknowingly contributing to the tournament 'added money' out of their own pockets.

When you have a group of people staying at a hotel for an event, the rates should be discounted, not inflated.

If you're thinking of attending an event, try to find out what the hotel normally would charge for that time of year if there hadn't been an event. Then compare it with the rate you have to pay. Is it discounted? It should be. Is it inflated? It shouldn't be.

Sometimes that kick-back can be in the form of not charging for the ballroom or playing area. I've never had an issue staying at the event as long as they aren't price gouging you. It's easier and safer than traveling from a different location. I also don't have a problem with promoters making money. If they can't make money, then they won't hold events. If the event is good and I get "value" out of my money then I'll support the event. If it isn't, then I won't, simple business. I'm not sure where it is written that the promoter isn't allowed to profit from an event.
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't see it any differently as the cost of flying increasing during certain occasions.

If a business knows it's going to get more customers at certain times, then it would be stupid not to raise the prices a little.
 

Diamond69

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Historically speaking, tourneys at hotels (think VNEA at the Rio) would have room "deals" specifically for the event. Say $99 for participants when you mention that is the reason you are there.

This enabled the venue to measure the business that came in for an event in order to evaluate profit/loss for the event for future year negotiations.

Problems began when Priceline, Kayak, Hotels.com, etc started up. Pool players being cost conscious in general, would find better deals on these sites and book through that code instead.

Now the venue can't accurately account for the actual impact of the event. I recall seeing discussions on this being an issue for some of the Vegas tourneys. Not sure if venues changed due to this, or some other reason.
 

Roger Long

Sonoran Cue Creations
Silver Member
Sometimes that kick-back can be in the form of not charging for the ballroom or playing area. I've never had an issue staying at the event as long as they aren't price gouging you. It's easier and safer than traveling from a different location. I also don't have a problem with promoters making money. If they can't make money, then they won't hold events. If the event is good and I get "value" out of my money then I'll support the event. If it isn't, then I won't, simple business. I'm not sure where it is written that the promoter isn't allowed to profit from an event.

I feel that same way.

Roger
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
Unlees you have access to contacts both partiessign. IE Pool Promoter, and Casino, or Hotel. You will never know what changes hand, or ios used as incentive to get promoter to use venues.

Part of doing business, but the bottom line is there are NO FREE LUNCHES. In the end the consumer pays.
 

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
I've run about a dozen trade shows (500 to 3,000 attendees) and attended at least 100 more.

I've never heard of a hotel bumping up its room rates to pay a commission (kickback, if you wish) to the promoter. If they did, any attendee could simply make their own reservation and get a lower rate.

I've always negotiated a discounted rate for my attendees because of the volume I'm bringing to the hotel.

Other items I've negotiated:

Free use of ballrooms and meeting rooms.
Discounted coffee break supplies (coffee, tea, etc) (Food is difficult to discount because it's a "hard" cost for the hotel.)
X-number of free rooms for speakers, dignitaries, etc.

Could I have negotiated an even lower room rate if I didn't negotiate for those other items? Sure, but room rate isn't the driving factor for most attendees.
 

Bella Don't Cry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've run about a dozen trade shows (500 to 3,000 attendees) and attended at least 100 more.

I've never heard of a hotel bumping up its room rates to pay a commission (kickback, if you wish) to the promoter. If they did, any attendee could simply make their own reservation and get a lower rate.

I've always negotiated a discounted rate for my attendees because of the volume I'm bringing to the hotel.

Other items I've negotiated:

Free use of ballrooms and meeting rooms.
Discounted coffee break supplies (coffee, tea, etc) (Food is difficult to discount because it's a "hard" cost for the hotel.)
X-number of free rooms for speakers, dignitaries, etc.

Could I have negotiated an even lower room rate if I didn't negotiate for those other items? Sure, but room rate isn't the driving factor for most attendees.

Cool :thumbup:
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
A frequent practice in organizing a big event is for the promoter to receive a kick-back from the hotels where the players are staying. The hotel may increase its rates to compensate for the kick-back.

That means that the players are paying more than just their entry fee. They're also unknowingly contributing to the tournament 'added money' out of their own pockets.

When you have a group of people staying at a hotel for an event, the rates should be discounted, not inflated.

If you're thinking of attending an event, try to find out what the hotel normally would charge for that time of year if there hadn't been an event. Then compare it with the rate you have to pay. Is it discounted? It should be. Is it inflated? It shouldn't be.
When people start threads like this, it would make more sense if they threw in some facts to back up what they're saying, instead of spending hours on guessing what's going on, instead of KNOW ING what's really happening;) I bet you don't ask where the money's coming from that gave you your last raise at work;)
 

Rip

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
While I was responsible for hotel operations at major strip properties in Las Vegas room rates were typically reduced for attendees of most conventions and additional rooms/suites/conference facilities were provided for the organizers.
 

shinobi

kanadajindayo
Silver Member
When people start threads like this, it would make more sense if they threw in some facts to back up what they're saying, instead of spending hours on guessing what's going on, instead of KNOW ING what's really happening;) I bet you don't ask where the money's coming from that gave you your last raise at work;)

Conjecture is much easier than fact checking :thumbup:
 

mantis99

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is not an abnormal practice for any event, and should not be looked upon as some kind of scam. My mom owns a tumbling gym, and many towns give them their venue for free for their national tournament because it draws so many people, knowing it will bring the hotels and restaurants a ton of business. Of course they aren't going to give any discounted rates when they have a full supply of people.

My last vacation we wanted to go to a museum that also had several attractions such as zip lines and rope walking courses. They had packages you could buy that were well discounted if you bundled the hotel and several attractions. When we called, they told us that the packages were not valid for that weekend because there was an annual event in town, and the hotels would already have enough business, so they never allowed packages on that weekend.

That is normal business application. Complaining about this is liking getting mad because a wholesaler gets a better price than you for buying so much more.

I am not defending BB and his general business practices, believe me, but this is not an issue that should be looked upon negatively. There is way too much entitlement thought in a post like this. An event like this takes massive preparation and energy, and also requires quite a bit of risk on the organizers part. The players just show up for a few days to play pool and make some money, not taking any real risk (they shouldnt have any anyways, but sometimes that isn't the case with non paying promoters). They of course bring their talents, backed up by years of training, and draw a crowd, but the organizer puts in months of preparation and planning, hours seeking sponsors, and takes financial risks. In the end, you can't have one without the other, and both deserve a share of the money that comes in. This post makes the organizer out to be a scam artist, but it is far from the truth in the case.
 
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asiasdad

Banned
A frequent practice in organizing a big event is for the promoter to receive a kick-back from the hotels where the players are staying. The hotel may increase its rates to compensate for the kick-back.

That means that the players are paying more than just their entry fee. They're also unknowingly contributing to the tournament 'added money' out of their own pockets.

When you have a group of people staying at a hotel for an event, the rates should be discounted, not inflated.

If you're thinking of attending an event, try to find out what the hotel normally would charge for that time of year if there hadn't been an event. Then compare it with the rate you have to pay. Is it discounted? It should be. Is it inflated? It shouldn't be.

Maybe this will help the NIT go away

kwell.jpg
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe this will help the NIT go away

View attachment 363929

I'm a former executive board member and North American Representative of the World Pool Billiard Association, former President of the Women's Professional Billiard Association, former Touring Pro in the Women's Professional Billiard Association, Current PBIA Master Instructor, former Administrator of the BCA Instructor Program, recipient of the BCA President's award for service to the billiard community, and more.

No, I'm not a nit nor am I a liar.

When I write something, you can bet that it's true. If I choose not to present examples, I may have a particular reason.

You, on the other hand, are an idiot.
 
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asiasdad

Banned
I'm a former executive board member and North American Representative of the World Pool Billiard Association, former President of the Women's Professional Billiard Association, former Touring Pro in the Women's Professional Billiard Association, Current PBIA Master Instructor, former Administrator of the BCA Instructor Program, recipient of the BCA President's award for service to the billiard community, and more.

No, I'm not nit nor am I a liar.

When I write something, you can bet that it's true.

You, however, are pathetic.

and you worry about the cost of a damn hotel room ?

That is a nit.
 

Wedge

WO Wedge Lock
Silver Member
Turning Stone

I was thinking about either playing in The Joss Tour Turning Stone Event or going to watch a few years ago. It turns out (If you can get in...the 128 player field fills up fast) that it is cheaper to pay the entry fee into the tournament and get a greatly reduced room rate than it is just to go watch and pay the normal room rate! The Joss tour and I am sure others takes care of its players!

Wedge
 

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
Greg Sullivan's kick back for the last Tunica event was a bill for 30k that the Hotel felt the tournament was short in producing from rooms, food and beverages... I guess things may be different these days than years ago.....
 

cuesblues

cue accumulator
Silver Member
I'm a former executive board member and North American Representative of the World Pool Billiard Association, former President of the Women's Professional Billiard Association, former Touring Pro in the Women's Professional Billiard Association, Current PBIA Master Instructor, former Administrator of the BCA Instructor Program, recipient of the BCA President's award for service to the billiard community, and more.

No, I'm not a nit nor am I a liar.

When I write something, you can bet that it's true. If I choose not to present examples, I may have a particular reason.

You, on the other hand, are an idiot.


Starting a thread like this doesn't make sense coming from somebody with all of those credentials "and more."
I worked for one of the largest corporations in the world for 25-years and every time we bypassed the corporate travel people, we saved a ton of money.
I've never doubted that the APA or VNEA, BCA all make a buck from the hotel in some form or another.
At the same time they are guaranteeing a decent rate that people can count on, and may not be available at certain times.
This just in...most league operators expect free food & drinks for bringing 60 of their players into a bar for a tournament.
 
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