Are League Playoffs Fair?

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Are league playoffs fair?

Some years ago, I played in a 14.1 league, and after 12 weeks, I won my division. I received zero dollars and no trophy for winning my division.

I was then informed that there would be playoffs to follow. I was placed in a single-elimination chart along with 16 other players and told that this would determine how I finished in the league.

I lost a match somewhere early in the tournament, so my 12 weeks of hard work, preparation, showing up, playing matches and fighting for each win, all came down to one single elimination event with ultimately, nothing to show for it.

Who came up with the idea of league playoffs? Years ago, I used to be on a bowling team. We had position nights every 4th night and at the end, it all came down to the best record over the length of the league. There was no single elimination tournament to determine the winner.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that playoffs do is basically negate all you did the entire season.
 

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Are league playoffs fair?

Some years ago, I played in a 14.1 league, and after 12 weeks, I won my division. I received zero dollars and no trophy for winning my division.

I was then informed that there would be playoffs to follow. I was placed in a single-elimination chart along with 16 other players and told that this would determine how I finished in the league.

I lost a match somewhere early in the tournament, so my 12 weeks of hard work, preparation, showing up, playing matches and fighting for each win, all came down to one single elimination event with ultimately, nothing to show for it.

Who came up with the idea of league playoffs? Years ago, I used to be on a bowling team. We had position nights every 4th night and at the end, it all came down to the best record over the length of the league. There was no single elimination tournament to determine the winner.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that playoffs do is basically negate all you did the entire season.

Well the same could be said about bars ball...foot ball ...basket ball.....well you vet the idea
 

ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
Fran,

In my poolhall's 14.1 league ending up first in a division gets the player a bye and seeding in the playoffs. Depending on how many people participate in that season, the league operator may decide to pay deeper into the field, offer bonus for coming in first in division, and for high runs. Also, only the top half to 2/3 go into the playoffs. So, if you played poorly you don't even get a chance at the playoffs.

If you ran your own 14.1 league, how would you change it?
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Are league playoffs fair?

Some years ago, I played in a 14.1 league, and after 12 weeks, I won my division. I received zero dollars and no trophy for winning my division.

I was then informed that there would be playoffs to follow. I was placed in a single-elimination chart along with 16 other players and told that this would determine how I finished in the league.

I lost a match somewhere early in the tournament, so my 12 weeks of hard work, preparation, showing up, playing matches and fighting for each win, all came down to one single elimination event with ultimately, nothing to show for it.

Who came up with the idea of league playoffs? Years ago, I used to be on a bowling team. We had position nights every 4th night and at the end, it all came down to the best record over the length of the league. There was no single elimination tournament to determine the winner.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that playoffs do is basically negate all you did the entire season.

Go back to bowling.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Leagues are most often about money, and increasing play for the business (they have near ZERO concern about the sport), especially on evenings that are slow compared to the weekends. If they are able to get everyone too show up one more time having a playoff, that's what it's all about. Very seldom/if ever....do we EVER see anything that's created, for the game itself. Leagues are either functional or politically dysfunctional, with non disclosure of league operators actions/fund$, basically ''what's in in for me'' the norm. In our area years ago, where CO had MORE leagues than ANY other state, these types of actions were prevalent. One very obvious result, was if the league operators team was NOT able to win the season, then the payout would NEVER be top heavy, but if their team had a good chance at winning then top heavy money was expected.
 

macguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Are league playoffs fair?

Some years ago, I played in a 14.1 league, and after 12 weeks, I won my division. I received zero dollars and no trophy for winning my division.

I was then informed that there would be playoffs to follow. I was placed in a single-elimination chart along with 16 other players and told that this would determine how I finished in the league.

I lost a match somewhere early in the tournament, so my 12 weeks of hard work, preparation, showing up, playing matches and fighting for each win, all came down to one single elimination event with ultimately, nothing to show for it.

Who came up with the idea of league playoffs? Years ago, I used to be on a bowling team. We had position nights every 4th night and at the end, it all came down to the best record over the length of the league. There was no single elimination tournament to determine the winner.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that playoffs do is basically negate all you did the entire season.

I don't really see competing and playing the game over a season if you don't win as being "All for nothing". I would hope you are playing for other reasons then just getting a trophy.
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You played well enough to make the playoffs and fell short. It happens in other sports all the time.
 

SUPERSTAR

I am Keyser Söze
Silver Member
League is stoopid.

Try your hardest during the regular season, for what. So you get a "good" seed for a single elimination tournament, where 1 bad match and you are done.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
League is stoopid.

Try your hardest during the regular season, for what. So you get a "good" seed for a single elimination tournament, where 1 bad match and you are done.

Exactly. Months of hard work down the drain. It's a LEAGUE, not a tournament. A LEAGUE means over a long period of time.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Fran,

In my poolhall's 14.1 league ending up first in a division gets the player a bye and seeding in the playoffs. Depending on how many people participate in that season, the league operator may decide to pay deeper into the field, offer bonus for coming in first in division, and for high runs. Also, only the top half to 2/3 go into the playoffs. So, if you played poorly you don't even get a chance at the playoffs.

If you ran your own 14.1 league, how would you change it?

No playoffs. That's how I'd change it. There would be position nights every 4 weeks to give teams or individuals opportunities to move up. That's the fairest way to do it.
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Exactly. Months of hard work down the drain. It's a LEAGUE, not a tournament. A LEAGUE means over a long period of time.

The only way this makes sense is if every team or player in that league was able to make the playoffs.

But if only the top x amount made it then its completely fair.
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
I prefer NO PLAYOFFS.... just a knockdown road at mids eason and one at end of season.

Thus, you get the better teams playing each other more, and the lesser teams get to play teams more equally matched, and thus have more fun.

THus, knockdown round means you play the team next to you 1v2, 3v4, etc.

Thus, at end of this year, we could NOT catch the top team, but we still had to play them and do well, because the 3 v 4 teams could both have jumped us, and we'd have ended in 4th place.... luckily, the 3 v 4 beat up on each other, and we won a couple of rounds to keep us in second....

Thus, scraping to stay in 2nd most of the year paid off.... ACS league, and everything was paid out that was put in less $100 administrative costs.....
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't really see competing and playing the game over a season if you don't win as being "All for nothing". I would hope you are playing for other reasons then just getting a trophy.

Of course I play because I love to play, but when you contribute towards a fund where there is a payoff for winning, then you should receive money for winning.
 

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
I think there should be some advantage to be gained by being the "Regular Season Champion". Typically it would be gain home field advantage in the playoffs but playing in the same pool room, or bowling lanes, or dart boards, or.... really gains nothing for you except a seed designation or maybe in some cases a first round bye. In leagues lie The APA where they draw a wild card team finishing in first really earns you nothing. In the playoffs it's often not about the best team but about the hottest team and anyone can play well for one match.
It might make it a more drawn out process and somewhat longer but maybe in playoffs such as the one that Fran describes, something like a best 2 out of 3 series of maybe slightly abbreviated matches should be played. I dunno, just a thought
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I prefer NO PLAYOFFS.... just a knockdown road at mids eason and one at end of season.

Thus, you get the better teams playing each other more, and the lesser teams get to play teams more equally matched, and thus have more fun.

THus, knockdown round means you play the team next to you 1v2, 3v4, etc.

Thus, at end of this year, we could NOT catch the top team, but we still had to play them and do well, because the 3 v 4 teams could both have jumped us, and we'd have ended in 4th place.... luckily, the 3 v 4 beat up on each other, and we won a couple of rounds to keep us in second....

Thus, scraping to stay in 2nd most of the year paid off.... ACS league, and everything was paid out that was put in less $100 administrative costs.....


Right. In bowling, we called those position nights. That's where you play the team positioned either directly in front or behind you. In bowling we used to do that every 4th or 5th week. Then the final week was also a position night, which would be very exciting if the teams were close, which they often were.

It makes so much more sense than putting players in a single elimination event to determine their finishing position after months of competition.
 

gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
Back in the 90's I played in the silliest league I have ever seen.:eek: It was an in house league where every player paid $5 a week. At the end of the season there was no team play off. Just a single game, single elimination, individual tournament, winner take all, for the $250(probably a little more??) in the pot. We played 8 ball bar rules with the provision that the 8 ball had to be made clean. The season was played on 8 foot valleys and the season ending tournament played on a 9 foot table.

Three brothers had started the league and figured they had the nuts on the money. I went into the league with my eyes wide open and liking my chances to take down the money. Since we were playing all scratches shoot from the kitchen with no table scratch, I complimented them;) on the use of the old time rule that the 8 ball had to go clean. I then pointed out to them the the old time rules also provided that if the cue ball scratched and all of my balls were behind the head string the one nearest the line could be spotted at my discretion. How could they deny that rule after I had just complimented them on their knowledge of the game.;);)

It was close but I took down the money. Had I lost I would not have complained.
 
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ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
Have you thought about running your own league?

No playoffs. That's how I'd change it. There would be position nights every 4 weeks to give teams or individuals opportunities to move up. That's the fairest way to do it.
 

nine_ball6970

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Are league playoffs fair?

Some years ago, I played in a 14.1 league, and after 12 weeks, I won my division. I received zero dollars and no trophy for winning my division.

I was then informed that there would be playoffs to follow. I was placed in a single-elimination chart along with 16 other players and told that this would determine how I finished in the league.

I lost a match somewhere early in the tournament, so my 12 weeks of hard work, preparation, showing up, playing matches and fighting for each win, all came down to one single elimination event with ultimately, nothing to show for it.

Who came up with the idea of league playoffs? Years ago, I used to be on a bowling team. We had position nights every 4th night and at the end, it all came down to the best record over the length of the league. There was no single elimination tournament to determine the winner.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that playoffs do is basically negate all you did the entire season.

Has this been on your mind for a number of years?

I think playoffs are fair. That way you don't have people running over the league every season and taking all of the money. Just because a person is the favorite doesn't mean they will win tournament at the end. I have been a part of leagues where one team won every season and the other teams got tired of donating. Poof the league died.

I believe the tournament should be seeded based on how each player performed during the season. The player with the best record gets the #1 seed and so on.

You complain about not having anything to show for your efforts. You know there were other people who showed up, fought for every match etc. Other people walked away empty handed as well.

Like others have said. If you have a problem with the format, either don't play or start your own league.
 
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