Passow or Brunswick - one and the same?

Brunswick didn't produce anything for Passow.

Pics will help.

Passow probably repaired the table (took the brunswick tag off) and left their tag in its place. ( a common practice)

eddie kelson said:

Thanks for the reply. I can forward pics in about 2 weeks when I return to Illinois. The label wasn't switched on a repair as you suggest as the table is in the Passow catalog where they claim the steel rod through the leg which was a Brunswick patent. Was it a common industry practice to copy Brunswick models so completely?

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Yes and no.
Brunswick was FIERCE about defending their patents, to the point of throwing lawsuits even at their own family members for infringements. So it was pretty rare for someone to overtly copy them.

But on the other hand, Brunswick was the trend setter and the technological leader in the industry - so everyone copied them. Just very very carefully.

Careful or not, Brunswick was out for blood. They would sue you at the drop of a hat and Passow was no exception. They were not friends or business partners, but in fact bitter enemies.



Could Passow have "very closely" copied a Brunswick model?
I guess technically its possible. Wouldnt have been very smart though.

Table plaque

eddie,

as someone else mentioned:
Sometimes when a table was repaired or worked on by a billiard company other than brunswick the repairman would replace the brunswick plaque.
I have a brunswick newport that was worked on by the akron billiard & bowling company back in the early 1900's.
I looked up that company name on yahoo & found that it changed names to turkey foot billiards years ago.
I called the place & talked to the owner & he told me that his great grandparents owned akron bowling & billiards and he remembered his grandfather talking about their repair man replacing the original table plaques with A B & B'S.

SLIM

1. The manufacturer's metal label on the end rail identifies the table as Passow and Sons. The nameplate is, however, in the identical shape of the Brunswick logo used on many tables. Only the name is different.

This makes me think that it was originally a Brunswick table, that Passow worked on. (and changed the tag) Because even if Passow produced a similar model, what would be the point in copying the size and shape of a Brunswick nameplate, on one of his own tables? It doesnt make a lot of sense.

The repair shops of the day (all over the country) had nameplates made for themselves that exactly matched the shape of the Brunswick nameplate, so they could take Brunswick tags off and replace them with their own.

Again, if the table was an original Passow, there would be no need to have a Brunswick shaped nameplate.


2. According to a former Brunswick employee whom I spoke to 30 years ago and who was then retired (probably long gone), he told me Brunswick often made tables for other retailers and put the dealer's name on the table instead of their own.

There were a few times, when they bought-out or took-over a company, Brunswick would continue to produce a popular table model from the former company, or simply adopt that table model as their own.

However, this was always a temporary and short lived scenario, and does not appear to have been the case between Brunswick and Passow. Specifically because the model in question far predates the "end" of Passow's company. In other words, this was not a table that Brunswick "took over" production of, from Passow. See also below


3. My table is identical to the Brunswick Delaware model.
It may look like it on the outside, but Passow's construction methods and Brunswick's were very different. It should be fairly easy to tell the difference under the hood.

Its also worth noting that the leg style of the Delaware was not original to Brunswick or Passow. It came from Collender, dates back to at least the 1870s, and was copied by more than a few table makers. To see it on a Passow model is not unusual, and does not automatically suggest a relationship with Brunswick.


4. The description in the Passow 1907 catalog and the Brunswick Delaware model have nearly identical descriptions, including the use of the patented steel rod through the legs into the frame.

Most table makers copied Brunswick in some form or another, so the use of the steel rod is no surprise. Passow just needed to vary it slightly to get away with it. But apparently, as seen in the lawsuit above, even that didn't always work.


Pictures would really help. Most handlers of antique tables can spot Brunswick construction methods a mile away, and the Delaware is a pretty common table. Shouldnt be too hard to verify it..

2. According to a former Brunswick employee whom I spoke to 30 years ago and who was then retired (probably long gone), he told me Brunswick often made tables for other retailers and put the dealer's name on the table instead of their own.

There were a few times, when they bought-out or took-over a company, Brunswick would continue to produce a popular table model from the former company, or simply adopt that table model as their own.

However, this was always a temporary and short lived scenario, and does not appear to have been the case between Brunswick and Passow. Specifically because the model in question far predates the "end" of Passow's company. In other words, this was not a table that Brunswick "took over" production of, from Passow. See also below

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According to their most reputable historian, Brunswick did, on a limited basis and for a limited time, produce batches of tables for certain competitors.
(so your retired friend was correct for the most part)

However, we have found no evidence to suggest that Brunswick had a "positive" relationship with Passow in particular. There is actually more evidence to the contrary....

The lawsuit mentioned above being part of that evidence..
And you'll also notice in the Passow catalogs, there is a prominent statement made:

"Our dealings have been entirely independent of The Trust."

The Trust of course was Brunswick.

But the best evidence is the table itself, so again, good photos will really help when you get a chance to post them. Body and leg pictures are good, but also try to include images of the framework under the slate as well.

It's an interesting case, and having researched the Passow family before*, I'd like to know the answer perhaps just as much as you.


*If you're interested, I've located the Passow family cemetery plot and will be taking some gravestone photos once it gets warmer.

Old Passow table

In the late 80's, I sold an 8' (over sized).
The table was part of the tables brought to Alaska to open the original Anchorage Billiard Palace.
The Passow looked a 'lot' like an aviator style Brunswick. The Passow construction was pretty lightweight and it would never hold up in commercial use.
It was a great home table. There were a few other differences from Brunswick I believe.
I always thought Passow was just 'copying' Brunswick.
My label was the same style as Brunswick.

Mark griffin

Passow

I just bought a Passow After disassembling the table I can say it is not a Brunswick. The construction is not like the Brunswicks I have worked on. Regina, Phister,Wellington 8' & 9'. Also Gold Crowns. The construction is solid but different and the name plate has the Brunswick shape as talked about on AZ forum. A customer of mine has a Brunswick Monroe restored by Adler in Los Angeles and they did install their name plate.

Did Ken just send me pictures of your table ?

J Reiter said:

I just bought a Passow After disassembling the table I can say it is not a Brunswick. The construction is not like the Brunswicks I have worked on. Regina, Phister,Wellington 8' & 9'. Also Gold Crowns. The construction is solid but different and the name plate has the Brunswick shape as talked about on AZ forum. A customer of mine has a Brunswick Monroe restored by Adler in Los Angeles and they did install their name plate.

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Passow

I sent a two messages to you and Ken. The first is pictures from the estate sale flyer the second was of the leg and a portion of the cabinet as they sit in my garage. Can you tell the model?

J Reiter said:

I sent a two messages to you and Ken. The first is pictures from the estate sale flyer the second was of the leg and a portion of the cabinet as they sit in my garage. Can you tell the model?

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its hard to tell for sure, but it looks alot like "The Royal"

see the pics in this catalog :
http://www.chicagobilliardmuseum.org/files/1907_Passow_Catalog_partial_.pdf

I think you are correct to bad they are drawings of a carrom table. I really enjoy your site you have such a store of billiard information. Thank you

Passow Table

Hello,

I just purchased an old Chas Passow & Sons table from an antique pool table dealer (he also sells new) in the California Bay Area. He was super nice and really knowledgable. Great guy.

Back story, we were just looking for a nicer pool table, we found this guy and now we have a great piece of old furniture! Very excited. He's touching it up a bit (sanding, lacquering etc..), new felt (english green) and accessories.

I was trying to find some information on this style. He says it's the name of it was "the parliament" and it was most likely from a San Francisco pool hall at some point. I found some cool history from the Chicago Billiard Museum online, but still can't seem to find this style. It's white oak,inlays and has a ball return. It's 9' with 1 1/4" slate.

Just wondering if anyone has any information on this great table. I'm very excited about this, attached are some pics (pre reno), he's working on it right now

Oh, I did find this on the Chicago Billiard Museum's site http://www.chicagobilliardmuseum.org/files/PASSOW_BILLIARD_TABLE_1912.pdf somewhat looks like it...or am I wrong?

Thanks!

Eileen

It sure looks like a Passow...

Looks to be in fairly good condition too...congratulations.

Unfortunately, its not the same one as the patent record, and at the moment, I don't have any documentation on that particular model.

But fortunately that doesnt automatically mean that none exists.
I'll ask around and see if I can find anything, and will let you know if I do.

Keep your fingers crossed, maybe we'll get lucky.
...

By the way....

-can you check the slate underneath and tell me if there are any words to be seen?

- can you also please post, or send me a picture of the Passow nameplate on the rail?

Thanks!

Thanks for your reply!

Unfortunately (two things), I dont have anymore pics, it's getting re-done now, but I will when they set it up next week for sure, under the slate etc..

Secondly, there's no name plate, the guy said that the last person to own it took it off and replaced it with three inlays (round)... sad Might try to find one....but I'll take a pic of where it should be to see if there's any remains of the shape of the plate.

Thanks again! Hope we can figure this guy out

I spoke to someone with a healthy collection of Passow catalogs, but that model name doesnt appear in any of them. Perhaps someone simply got the name wrong? ....will keep looking.

There is also the very real possibility that Passow simply worked on the table at some point, pulled off the original makers nameplate, and replaced it with his own, so he would get the call back for repairs next time.

The removal and replacement of original nameplates by repairmen was practiced all over the country and has subsequently led to inumerable mis-identified tables. (the table owner will presume that the name on the rail indicates who originally made it)

By the way, if you can, also get a pic of the assembled framework with ball return, before the slate is placed on the table.
We do have patent records for Passow's patented ball return system, and it may come down to being the only way to prove it's really one of their tables.

ah, yes i did read that.

you know, here's a pic of one just like it (it's not the same one as the rails on this one is darker). But this is what it looks like put together (guess the guy had two in there at some point).

but, like you said, could be a repair job done by Passow. This one shows the ball return tray though.

Thanks again for your help!

PS the ball return is curvy, not clunky like brunswick's (so says the the man at the billiards store). We did see the return components and it is curvy.

So, next week they should be here, I'll definitely take pics of them setting it up and get under the slate etc...

Thanks!