Need Help - City Fighting Pool Hall

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ndakotan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I live in Minot, ND. We had a poolhall for many years that was shut down in 2008. It had a "under 21 side" and "over 21 side". They sold food and beer.

In recent years, the city has been very unfriendly towards adult themed businesses, and has lumped poolhalls in that category. The two strip joints were kicked out of town, and the city realigned it's zoning ordinances. Any business deemed adult-themed needs to be in a heavy commercial/industrial area under the zoning laws.

Someone is starting up a poolhall in a different location. It is already built, and almost ready to open. According to the manager, the city is now telling them they will not be able to let anyone under 21 into the poolhall, even though they have a defined "under 21" area where alcohol will not be served. Rumor is that the city is also going to stop the bowling alley from serving alcohol to bowlers for the same reason, because the poolhall owners used the comparison to a bowling alley for liquor sales (bowling alley has served liquor at the lanes for years, even though there are kids around).

I just found out there is a city council meeting in a few hours where the poolhall owners and anyone else will have a chance to make a case for allowing kids into the poolhall where beer is sold. I am going to the meeting to see what they say, and to see if I can help promote the idea.

I am not affiliated with the poolhall, I'm a business professional who really likes to play pool leagues and tournaments and sorely miss having a poolhall.

Does anyone have any good arguments for allowing kids into a poolhall. I have a few, but want to see what the comments are.
 
A

AngryTurtle

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There may not be time before your meeting, but Bob Byrne had a chapter in one of his books (sorry dont recall which one) that addressed this very topic, Fighting City Hall for a Pool Hall.
 
Celophanewrap

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
If someone can find a way to add an educational element or that there were plans to participate in sponsorship of youth activities, maybe some kind of school
activities, that is, if you were able to get a school or two or some educators to side with you it would help, however, I'm afraid you are kind of "behind the 8 ball".
The vote has likely already been taken and any committee discussion or testimony is merely a formality.
I would search for a loophole in the law that might have the council over reaching in their authority, perhaps other businesses that serve alcohol that allow both
minors and adults or maybe find a way to reclassify the pool hall and the bowling alley as restaurants.
Good luck, you're gonna need it
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Bob Byrne's article about arguing for a pool hall is in his book "Advanced Technique" starting on page 80. You can see a copy of it on Google Books by simply searching in Google for the quoted phrase:

"game without stressing sleaze"

You will also get a link to Scribd, but that doesn't actually show you the text for pages 80-85
 
pt109

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
You can join the US military at 17 with parental consent or 18 on your own.

If you can fight for your country ...you should be able to get into a pool hall.
 
B

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
I'd show them photos of the pool classroom at Lindenwood College http://www.lindenwoodlionssls.com/index.aspx?path=pool and stress that not everyone can be a football or basketball player. Billiards is a demanding sport that requires every bit as much practice, etc. as the others...but you don't have to be a natural athlete to participate.

Of course, this assumes that someone is willing to head up an after-school pool league, lessons and so on.
 
GideonF

GideonF

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Since you are from ND, I would mention that the best pool player in the US, one of the best in the world, is from right next door in South Dakota. SVB learned as a child and played in bars and pool leagues before going on to win four US Open 9b titles.

I might also suggest they go check out Mike Page's room in Fargo to see what a modern pool hall is (or can be) and that it does not have to be some dark and seedy place.
 
LAlouie

LAlouie

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ndakotan said:
I live in Minot, ND. We had a poolhall for many years that was shut down in 2008. It had a "under 21 side" and "over 21 side". They sold food and beer.

In recent years, the city has been very unfriendly towards adult themed businesses, and has lumped poolhalls in that category. The two strip joints were kicked out of town, and the city realigned it's zoning ordinances. Any business deemed adult-themed needs to be in a heavy commercial/industrial area under the zoning laws.

Someone is starting up a poolhall in a different location. It is already built, and almost ready to open. According to the manager, the city is now telling them they will not be able to let anyone under 21 into the poolhall, even though they have a defined "under 21" area where alcohol will not be served. Rumor is that the city is also going to stop the bowling alley from serving alcohol to bowlers for the same reason, because the poolhall owners used the comparison to a bowling alley for liquor sales (bowling alley has served liquor at the lanes for years, even though there are kids around).

I just found out there is a city council meeting in a few hours where the poolhall owners and anyone else will have a chance to make a case for allowing kids into the poolhall where beer is sold. I am going to the meeting to see what they say, and to see if I can help promote the idea.

I am not affiliated with the poolhall, I'm a business professional who really likes to play pool leagues and tournaments and sorely miss having a poolhall.

Does anyone have any good arguments for allowing kids into a poolhall. I have a few, but want to see what the comments are.
Click to expand...

No f**king way will I ever let my kids go to a poolroom that's serves up liquor. Plus, yuppie-type social/family pool rooms at best. Maybe something like Amsterdam in NYC. That type of establishment, nothing less.

It's a losing battle, buddy. The stigma of the poolroom and it's frequent clientele has been with us for over a century! We're also 2 generations away from "Color of Money". Pool players thought things would radically change. Did it?

Btw, having a defined under 21 area is stupid beyond belief,,,or do you not remember when commercial airlines had designated smoking-non smoking seats. LOL. The owner had the wrong business model. He should have opened family amusement center that had tables in it( among other assorted games, including kids games) then maybe build on a pool shooting clientele from that. Instead, he tried opening a poolroom that served beer......smart. It's a fatal flaw in room owners. They want to attract and appease pool players. That's why rooms tank.
 
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Tramp Steamer

Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
Silver Member
Do what me and my buddy did when we were kids going to the Saturday matinees.
Walk in the front door backwards and they'll think your leaving. Works almost every time. :)
 
robsnotes4u

robsnotes4u

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LAlouie said:
No f**king way will I ever let my kids go to a poolroom that's serves up liquor. Plus, yuppie-type social/family pool rooms at best. Maybe something like Amsterdam in NYC. That type of establishment, nothing less.

It's a losing battle, buddy. The stigma of the poolroom and it's frequent clientele has been with us for over a century! We're also 2 generations away from "Color of Money". Pool players thought things would radically change. Did it?

Btw, having a defined under 21 area is stupid beyond belief,,,or do you not remember when commercial airlines had designated smoking-non smoking seats. LOL. The owner had the wrong business model. He should have opened family amusement center that had tables in it( among other assorted games, including kids games) then maybe build on a pool shooting clientele from that. Instead, he tried opening a poolroom that served beer......smart. It's a fatal flaw in room owners. They want to attract and appease pool players. That's why rooms tank.
Click to expand...



Hmm, works at Fargo Billiards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
BmoreMoney

BmoreMoney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That does really suck, the gub can never keep its nose where it belongs. With that said, this is nothing even remotely new. Not that I necessarily agree bur they are going off the image of old ( and honestly some current day ) image of pool halls and what goes on in there. I started going to pool rooms when I was 12 or so - AND HAD A BLAST!!!

As far as the commercial / industrial location - quote honestly just abounall of the best pool halls I've ever been to have been tucked away in an industrial complex out of the way, to be left alone so that might not be a horrible thing other than you have to drive a few more minutes.

As to the beer; that's all bs. They're are just using that as a tool and leverage. Think about this, how many restaurants - Applebee's, Chili's, Outbacks etc etc have full alcohol and tons of kids?? Thousands upon thousands and no one blinks an eye of course. The new pool room by circumvented this ( but for a different reason) by opening up an upstairs portion that does not serve alcohol so they can stay open as late as they want and not have to close at 2 like the bar po room downstairs. They Opened up th upstairs as a separate business - all legit so they would not be bound by that reg.
 
K

Keith E.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Please provide the text of the ordinances that the jurisdiction is using. I'm sure there's something in there that will allow for a business to have some tables. BTDT.

Keith
 
SARDiver

SARDiver

JCC Chief
Silver Member
Do they not allow kids in restaurants that serve alcohol?

Is (or was) the pool hall good about age checking at the 21+ side?

The comparison to smoking and non-smoking in an airplane is quite a reach. Last I heard, you can't really get "second hand booze".

As for education, I recently showed my kids Donald Duck in Mathmagic Land. Good segment on billiards in there.
 
chefjeff

chefjeff

If not now...
Silver Member
Meanwhile as they close down private for-profit businesses that don't reflect the fake dogoodery of the city councils and zoning boards, the govts are taking your money and using it to build soccer fields, baseball diamonds, basketball courts, football stadiums, etc., with the appropriate kick-backs of course, going to those who are just that concerned with the children's lives.

Monopolies are like that.



Jeff Livingston
 
GideonF

GideonF

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BmoreMoney said:
The new pool room by circumvented this ( but for a different reason) by opening up an upstairs portion that does not serve alcohol so they can stay open as late as they want and not have to close at 2 like the bar po room downstairs. They Opened up th upstairs as a separate business - all legit so they would not be bound by that reg.
Click to expand...

Ingenious. Out of curiosity, any idea how the upstairs business compares to the downstairs? Which is busier? Is there a marked difference in the clientele?
 
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Baby Huey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Open the business for the 21 and older license. Then do a good job and re-apply for the under 21 license some time down the road. Let yourself get established and keep your place clean, manage your problems without the police intervening and you will see how effective running a decent operation helps.
 
BmoreMoney

BmoreMoney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
GideonF said:
Ingenious. Out of curiosity, any idea how the upstairs business compares to the downstairs? Which is busier? Is there a marked difference in the clientele?
Click to expand...

Sorry, only have a second to respond - the pool room I speak of has its own thread here. Its Brews & Cues or visa versa. The way ota set up is all the tables downstairs in the the " Bar Area " are Bar boxes. They have stairs leading upstairs and they literally cut a big ass hole in the floor / ceiling. All tables on the upper level are Full sizes. BTW, ALL TABLES ARE DIAMONDS.

As to the respective biz for each area. I truthfully do not know. I haven't been there in a bit ( maybe 1.5-2 months ) and they were just in the first phase of construction on the upper level. I'm certain someone can chime in that's been there more recently than that.
 
pt109

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Baby Huey said:
Open the business for the 21 and older license. Then do a good job and re-apply for the under 21 license some time down the road. Let yourself get established and keep your place clean, manage your problems without the police intervening and you will see how effective running a decent operation helps.
Click to expand...

I think this is good advice.
 
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