Help me understand about 7 foot tables

Sweatin'

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll say right up front that I've never played on a 7 foot table, nor for that matter on an 8 foot table as far as I can recall. To me, a 9 foot table was what pool was all about and anything else might as well have been bumper pool. So in looking for a table for my home I've never considered anything but a 9 footer, which with a room appx. 20x16 should be just fine.

But I am curious about why the 7 foot tables seem to be so popular, especially the Diamonds. From what I read here, if you don't have room for a 9 footer, it seems that the 7 foot table is the preferred way to go. Nobody much seems to consider an 8 footer; looks to me like it's either a 9 or a 7. And there even seems to be tournaments played on 7 foot tables.

So I'm wondering what's up with the 7 foot tables? Is the geometry of the table somehow more similar to a 9 footer than an 8 foot table would be? Logically it would seem to me that the smaller the table, the less any skills on that table would transfer over to a regulation 9 foot table but obviously my thinking must be wrong.

Help me understand this if you will.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd say it is probably directly related to the ram shot after effects.

I am sure you great response.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
To hell with political correctness! I'm going to get flack for this, but I don't care.

1. Bar boxes (7 footers) change the game. IMO bar box pool is by far inferior as a game. It makes running out easier, and is less demanding of your stroke.

2. Bar boxes are not made for serious players. They may be played on by such, but they are primarily made to keep bar guests drinking.

3. Bar boxes make the game less visually pleasing and far less entertaining.

4. Bar boxes makes playing proper straight pool close to impossible, leaving only the small games of 8, 9 and 10-ball. Rotation is also no good on the bar box and forget about one pocket.

5. There are very few spectacular shots on the bar box

6. Bar box cueballs react differently

7. Bar boxes take the big strokes, the big breaks and stretching out of the game, leaving it a much less athletic activity.

8. Putting a proper pool professional on a bar box, is IMO an insult to the skill and knowledge he has developed over many years. Sure it makes the league players feeling validated, and probably entertains them, but to me it's like putting a world champion sprinter in a sack race and calling it the world championship. It's a joke, plain and simple.


8 footers still make both rotation and straight pool possible to play. So IMO it's the better choice for a home table if that is what space allows, though it too makes the game easier, it's much closer to a proper 9 footer as far as angles and gameplay is concerned.
 
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Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
I'll say right up front that I've never played on a 7 foot table, nor for that matter on an 8 foot table as far as I can recall. To me, a 9 foot table was what pool was all about and anything else might as well have been bumper pool. So in looking for a table for my home I've never considered anything but a 9 footer, which with a room appx. 20x16 should be just fine.

But I am curious about why the 7 foot tables seem to be so popular, especially the Diamonds. From what I read here, if you don't have room for a 9 footer, it seems that the 7 foot table is the preferred way to go. Nobody much seems to consider an 8 footer; looks to me like it's either a 9 or a 7. And there even seems to be tournaments played on 7 foot tables.

So I'm wondering what's up with the 7 foot tables? Is the geometry of the table somehow more similar to a 9 footer than an 8 foot table would be? Logically it would seem to me that the smaller the table, the less any skills on that table would transfer over to a regulation 9 foot table but obviously my thinking must be wrong.

Help me understand this if you will.

Do you play golf?.. Have you played miniature golf?.. All golfers can play putt-putt.. but not all putt-putt folks can play golf.. There is a difference.

.
 

Sweatin'

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do you play golf?.. Have you played miniature golf?.. All golfers can play putt-putt.. but not all putt-putt folks can play golf.. There is a difference.

.

Exactly. Which is all the more reason why I have difficulty understanding the 7 foot thing. That was kinda the premise of my post.
 

Sweatin'

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To hell with political correctness! I'm going to get flack for this, but I don't care.

1. Bar boxes (7 footers) change the game. IMO bar box pool is by far inferior as a game. It makes running out easier, and is less demanding of your stroke.

2. Bar boxes are not made for serious players. They may be played on by such, but they are primarily made to keep bar guests drinking.

3. Bar boxes make the game less visually pleasing and far less entertaining.

4. Bar boxes makes playing proper straight pool close to impossible, leaving only the small games of 8, 9 and 10-ball. Rotation is also no good on the bar box and forget about one pocket.

5. There are very few spectacular shots on the bar box

6. Bar box cueballs react differently

7. Bar boxes take the big strokes, the big breaks and stretching out of the game, leaving it a much less athletic activity.

8. Putting a proper pool professional on a bar box, is IMO an insult to the skill and knowledge he has developed over many years. Sure it makes the league players feeling validated, and probably entertains them, but to me it's like putting a world champion sprinter in a sack race and calling it the world championship. It's a joke, plain and simple.


8 footers still make both rotation and straight pool possible to play. So IMO it's the better choice for a home table if that is what space allows, though it too makes the game easier, it's much closer to a proper 9 footer as far as angles and gameplay is concerned.

This too is all exactly what I would have thought, and why I don't understand the 7 foot love. I just don't get it.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
This too is all exactly what I would have thought, and why I don't understand the 7 foot love. I just don't get it.

For bar owners and pool hall owners, it makes it possible to cram more tables in. Economically, 10 tables will give more revenue than 6 or 8. Also, the easier play makes the bangers happy and keeps them coming back, where a tight 9 footer might frustrate them. A bar box often has a one piece slate, which makes moving it quite easy. That's a positive if you have a venue thats used for more than one purpose. Sadly it also makes leveling the tables properly quite tricky. Especially 19mm one piece slates rarely roll straight. There are more bangers than serious players in the world by a factor of probably 100:1. Players play every day and can't afford to leave huge amounts of cash on every visit. Better to cater to the 100 different bangers who stumble in the door, a new face every day, with plenty of cash to spend because they only go out once a week.


Everyones a world beater on a bar box. It gives poor players a sense of mastery. So they love it as well. They also make it possible for people with poor strokes, bad eyesight or other physical disabilities to compete.
 
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Kevin3824

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am no expert. However, years ago when pool seemed to be popular it was played on basically nine and ten foot tables. People would go to the local bowling alley or pool hall and there would be room for several large tables. Also tables started to show up in bars. When the table showed up in the bars people realized that if you had a smaller table you might be able to fit more tables in the allotted space. Then people started to put them in their homes and had trouble fitting the larger sized tables in there so they came up with the smaller sizes but tried to keep the sizes proportional so it was 9 x 4 1/2, 8 x 4, 7 x 3 1/2. People started to think of 9 ft tables as being pro length 8 ft tables as being home length or furniture tables. and 7 ft tables as being bar tables. Another thing that makes the bar size table popular is the lack of availability of large rooms and accessibility. I have a 14 x 18 room. I have a bar table in it and need to use a short cue on two corners. I had my slate cut to 3 pc so it would not be a problem getting in the house or up and down stairs if I ever move. These days it seems like the only thing keeping pool alive here in the USA is the bar leagues. Most bar leagues play on the 7 foot version of a pool table because that is what the bar had room for. Now most bars at least around me tend to have the inexpensive valley tables in them. That is likely the reason if you look at the national tournaments for the APA they are played on valley tables. The BCA leagues play their nationals on Diamond Smart Tables (coin version of pro - am) the last time I heard.

As far as preference of the table manufacturer goes that is a personal thing. I personally want the highest quality most challenging table I can afford for my practice table. I went with a Diamond Blue label last year. I may go with the faster Simonis 760 cloth when the 860 is worn out. That is probably the only change I will make to the table though. I do not think I would have been at all happy with the less expensive Valley table. Before you buy any table spend the time to seek out and play on the table lengths and manufacturers you consider. if you can play on them several hours under different weather conditions such as different room temps and humidity levels and with your desired cloth. There may not be a lot of bar tables around you with simonis cloth on them for that matter.
 

Kevin3824

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To hell with political correctness! I'm going to get flack for this, but I don't care.

1. Bar boxes (7 footers) change the game. IMO bar box pool is by far inferior as a game. It makes running out easier, and is less demanding of your stroke.

2. Bar boxes are not made for serious players. They may be played on by such, but they are primarily made to keep bar guests drinking.

3. Bar boxes make the game less visually pleasing and far less entertaining.

4. Bar boxes makes playing proper straight pool close to impossible, leaving only the small games of 8, 9 and 10-ball. Rotation is also no good on the bar box and forget about one pocket.

5. There are very few spectacular shots on the bar box

6. Bar box cueballs react differently

7. Bar boxes take the big strokes, the big breaks and stretching out of the game, leaving it a much less athletic activity.

8. Putting a proper pool professional on a bar box, is IMO an insult to the skill and knowledge he has developed over many years. Sure it makes the league players feeling validated, and probably entertains them, but to me it's like putting a world champion sprinter in a sack race and calling it the world championship. It's a joke, plain and simple.


8 footers still make both rotation and straight pool possible to play. So IMO it's the better choice for a home table if that is what space allows, though it too makes the game easier, it's much closer to a proper 9 footer as far as angles and gameplay is concerned.

Hmm so you want flack?

I will work down your list. Number 1 if it is inferior it is lower in rank status or quality. So you say it makes the game less difficult. If it is less difficult then I guess you see that as a lower quality. That would make sense except for the fact that your saying it is easier simply based upon the fact that the shots are shorter. You are not taking into account that because the play area is smaller you have more congestion of balls on the table. That congestion is what can make the game more difficult.

Number two. I would simply ask for your scholarly reference source that the seven foot pool table design has anything to do with the consumption of alcohol. I will grant you that it was likely designed to fit in places that had limited space but it was nothing to do with alcohol consumption.

Number 3 is completely an opinion which may or may not be shared by others. The smaller table may cause more confusion if recorded for television as there is more congestion.

Number 4 this one was one of my favorites of yours. You say above the bar table is easier than the 9 ft table. Yet you say here that it is impossible to play straight pool or one pocket on a bar table. Now I am probably not even a good pool player comparatively but I have no problem at all playing either of those games on my 7 ft pro-am. Maybe you should hone your pool skill set a bit more.

Number 5 There are very few spectacular shots done period. I cannot think of any shot that can be done on a nine foot table that cannot be done on a 7 foot table. If you would be kind enough to give me a few examples of shots that can only be done on the larger table I would like to see them.

Number 6 On this point I can almost agree. I guess it all depends on the barbox you refer to. Personally I play on a 7 ft diamond pro-am with Aramith Pro-Cup measles ball. It responds Identically on my home table as it does on the 9 ft tables at the pool hall far as I can tell. If you are referring to a coin op table that requires an oversized ball or magnetic ball I would tend to agree.

Number 7 Far as big strokes and breaks go I am not sure how physical that really is honestly you should not have to shoot with much force to be able to get the cue to respond. When it comes to stretching over a table I think that is what they make bridges for and there are positions on a 7 ft table you may need one to accurately shoot.

Number 8 How is it an insult to a professional to have them play on a smaller table? They are supposed to be experts at the game. If they are then they should be able to do anything on a smaller table they can do on a larger table. Most of the professionals I have met can shoot just as well on a 7 ft table as they can a nine. In fact I believe within a few shots they could likely shoot just as as well on a ten foot table. It is a matter of adapting.

Your unnumbered comment about 8 ft tables is pretty clearly your personal opinion. However to give you a break a little bit I would simply point out that most apartments and even newer homes may not even have the room to put an 8 ft table in. Most of the sizing charts I have seen do not include for seating around the table either.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
Hmm so you want flack?

I will work down your list. Number 1 if it is inferior it is lower in rank status or quality. So you say it makes the game less difficult. If it is less difficult then I guess you see that as a lower quality. That would make sense except for the fact that your saying it is easier simply based upon the fact that the shots are shorter. You are not taking into account that because the play area is smaller you have more congestion of balls on the table. That congestion is what can make the game more difficult.

Number two. I would simply ask for your scholarly reference source that the seven foot pool table design has anything to do with the consumption of alcohol. I will grant you that it was likely designed to fit in places that had limited space but it was nothing to do with alcohol consumption.

Number 3 is completely an opinion which may or may not be shared by others. The smaller table may cause more confusion if recorded for television as there is more congestion.

Number 4 this one was one of my favorites of yours. You say above the bar table is easier than the 9 ft table. Yet you say here that it is impossible to play straight pool or one pocket on a bar table. Now I am probably not even a good pool player comparatively but I have no problem at all playing either of those games on my 7 ft pro-am. Maybe you should hone your pool skill set a bit more.

Number 5 There are very few spectacular shots done period. I cannot think of any shot that can be done on a nine foot table that cannot be done on a 7 foot table. If you would be kind enough to give me a few examples of shots that can only be done on the larger table I would like to see them.

Number 6 On this point I can almost agree. I guess it all depends on the barbox you refer to. Personally I play on a 7 ft diamond pro-am with Aramith Pro-Cup measles ball. It responds Identically on my home table as it does on the 9 ft tables at the pool hall far as I can tell. If you are referring to a coin op table that requires an oversized ball or magnetic ball I would tend to agree.

Number 7 Far as big strokes and breaks go I am not sure how physical that really is honestly you should not have to shoot with much force to be able to get the cue to respond. When it comes to stretching over a table I think that is what they make bridges for and there are positions on a 7 ft table you may need one to accurately shoot.

Number 8 How is it an insult to a professional to have them play on a smaller table? They are supposed to be experts at the game. If they are then they should be able to do anything on a smaller table they can do on a larger table. Most of the professionals I have met can shoot just as well on a 7 ft table as they can a nine. In fact I believe within a few shots they could likely shoot just as as well on a ten foot table. It is a matter of adapting.

Your unnumbered comment about 8 ft tables is pretty clearly your personal opinion. However to give you a break a little bit I would simply point out that most apartments and even newer homes may not even have the room to put an 8 ft table in. Most of the sizing charts I have seen do not include for seating around the table either.

All points are opinions, not just the last one.

I like big strokes, I like big breaks. I like tough shots, and I like watching tough shots get made. I don't like watching grown men punt balls around like an 8 year old, which is why I don't approve of super springy rails either.

The point about stretching was made because the fact is that reaching balls is in fact a factor to be considered on a 9 footer as well as on a snooker or carom table. It's a skill to play position in a manner where you can reach the shot properly, that is more or less completely taken out of the game by the bar box. And the point about strokes is true, but it is also true for diamond 9 footers but to a lesser extent. I played a tournament on a Diamond 9 footer, and when I came back home to my pool hall it felt wonderful to play on a snooker match tables with steel block cushions, because I could finally let my stroke out. If you have played on one of those, you'll know how absolutely absurd that is, as they are ridiculously fast, though the Diamond was even faster! The rails are so springy that all you do is punt, punt and punt again. I can't bear to watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDsAzH7Ru9k
 
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cluelesscuer

New member
9 ft tables marketed for the pool hall. 8 ft tables with the skinny rails markets for the home owner. 7 ft tables marketed for bars. Now, that is changing as pool hall owners see the smaller the table, the more tables. Some don't want to totally disgust their customers, so they put in diamonds instead of valleys. But in the long run make more money on these 7 ft diamonds than 9 ft brunswicks because they have more tables they can charge for.


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 

SARDiver

JCC Chief
Silver Member
Not sure about the notion that, "Nobody much considers an 8 footer."

I love my 8 footer, for reasons Straightpool_99 laid out. I get a good spread of balls when playing 14.1, my kids can reach shots when we're playing 8B and 9B, and I still feel like I have to have a decent stroke to move the ball around properly.
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
When I hear of a player, who is basically a good bar table player, stepping up and playing a good player on a 9 footer, I am surprised at how good they usually are on the 9 footer. When I was learning, I had a Valley in my garage. I couldn't make very many long shots on a 9 footer.

Here are the advantages of a 7 footer:

- They fit in most homes

- They're cheap and readily available

- They're more easily and cheaply moved and set up

- Generally, there are more events now using 7 footers, especially BCA and APA, due to many reasons (density, set up costs, table cost)

The disadvantage is, no real pool player wants to play on a 7 footer. It's just not the same test of skill as a 9 footer. A tight 7 footer would be, but most have buckets. In fact, I would say a very tight 7 footer would be as challenging as a 9 footer with buckets.

Maybe we should just lobby for small pockets on a 7 footer, since we've already lost the battle of the 7 footer in the Las Vegas tournaments.
 
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book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll say right up front that I've never played on a 7 foot table, nor for that matter on an 8 foot table as far as I can recall. To me, a 9 foot table was what pool was all about and anything else might as well have been bumper pool. So in looking for a table for my home I've never considered anything but a 9 footer, which with a room appx. 20x16 should be just fine.

But I am curious about why the 7 foot tables seem to be so popular, especially the Diamonds. From what I read here, if you don't have room for a 9 footer, it seems that the 7 foot table is the preferred way to go. Nobody much seems to consider an 8 footer; looks to me like it's either a 9 or a 7. And there even seems to be tournaments played on 7 foot tables.

So I'm wondering what's up with the 7 foot tables? Is the geometry of the table somehow more similar to a 9 footer than an 8 foot table would be? Logically it would seem to me that the smaller the table, the less any skills on that table would transfer over to a regulation 9 foot table but obviously my thinking must be wrong.

Help me understand this if you will.
You can get more 7 foot tables in your space, almost everyone can make a ball or 2 on a 7 foot table.
Most leagues are played on 7 foot tables.
That should be enough.
 

Mike81

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think it's unfair to say or imply 7ft tables require less skill to shoot on or it's strictly for drunks.. In the bar league I shoot in there aren't any "bangers". Everyone takes it seriously and its very competitive. These guys are still keeping pool alive even if it's on a small scale as I read on hear that it's dying from time to time. I'm sure a lot of cue sales are from guys in 7ft leagues. I practice with a couple of great shooters who are always on GCs playing straight pool and 9 ball, they always say 8ball on the 7fters is equally challenging. I have lots of respect for the 9ft tables as I find them challenging as well. You need a good stroke and aim, any flaws you have will show their head on a big table for sure. I don't understand why people knock the small tables. If you think it's easier, then don't shoot on one. I love shooting on any table. Just my 2 cents
 

thintowin

thin2win
Silver Member
what ever happened to the old adage that most players were proud to repeat and live by. it goes something like: "i will play any man from any land, on any table that's playable,and for any amount that he can count, and that's no bull$hit."

in other words, limits are well limiting. keep an open mind and just play. leave the length of a table to those who like making excuses. as johnny lang crooned "rackem up."
 

mchnhed

I Came, I Shot, I Choked
Silver Member
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PickPocket

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
7fts = because there are more available.

I live in SLC, UT. Not exactly a "billiards destination" location.
Hence most of the easily accessible 9ft tables have gone away... bars like 7fts so that's what we work with.

If you play around here, most decent paying events are gonna be on bar boxes. :thumbup:
 

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
To hell with political correctness! I'm going to get flack for this, but I don't care.

1. Bar boxes (7 footers) change the game. IMO bar box pool is by far inferior as a game. It makes running out easier, and is less demanding of your stroke.

2. Bar boxes are not made for serious players. They may be played on by such, but they are primarily made to keep bar guests drinking.

3. Bar boxes make the game less visually pleasing and far less entertaining.

4. Bar boxes makes playing proper straight pool close to impossible, leaving only the small games of 8, 9 and 10-ball. Rotation is also no good on the bar box and forget about one pocket.

5. There are very few spectacular shots on the bar box

6. Bar box cueballs react differently

7. Bar boxes take the big strokes, the big breaks and stretching out of the game, leaving it a much less athletic activity.

8. Putting a proper pool professional on a bar box, is IMO an insult to the skill and knowledge he has developed over many years. Sure it makes the league players feeling validated, and probably entertains them, but to me it's like putting a world champion sprinter in a sack race and calling it the world championship. It's a joke, plain and simple.


8 footers still make both rotation and straight pool possible to play. So IMO it's the better choice for a home table if that is what space allows, though it too makes the game easier, it's much closer to a proper 9 footer as far as angles and gameplay is concerned.


Straight pool player's think alike
Thumbs up emoji
 
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