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Instructor review - 03-13-2019, 12:09 PM

Has anyone ever taken lessons from PATRICK JHONSON? Would like your feedback.
  
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03-13-2019, 05:34 PM

Why is this under the Instructor title.

Has Patrick become Certified?

randyg


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03-30-2019, 11:38 PM

Who says you "have to be certified" to be an instructor?

Certified by whom?

If I can beat the "instructor", shouldn't the instructor be taking lessons from me?

Is Efren "certified"?

How about Earl?
  
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04-01-2019, 06:10 AM

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04-01-2019, 04:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawaiianEye View Post
Who says you "have to be certified" to be an instructor?

Certified by whom?

If I can beat the "instructor", shouldn't the instructor be taking lessons from me?

Is Efren "certified"?

How about Earl?
Now you're just being silly!

randyg


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2018 Instructor of the year
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04-09-2019, 09:29 PM

Hello Jim! Great speaking with you in January, when I was in Hawaii! Sorry we didn't get a chance to meet up and play some. Next time for sure! I very much appreciated your help in setting up a lesson at Hawaiian Brian's. I have to tell you that the absurd concept of "if you can't beat me, you can't teach me", is just that. To be able to learn, you must have an open mind. Those who think that way have closed minds,and are unable to learn anything new (because they already "know" everything)! LOL Many of us have worked with professional players and taught them things they didn't know, simply because they came to us with an open mind. Do all pro golfers belong to the PGA? No...but they all aspire to. Do all "instructors" need to be certified? No...but the best ones are. The PBIA is the only truly professional organization that holds instructors to certain standards. Is it perfect? No, but currently it is the best opportunity out there to belong to a professional association strictly for professional pool instructors. Lastly, do you really believe Johan Ruysink, coach of the winning US Mosconi Cup team, can beat any of those players? Nope...but he has great teaching and communication skills, and obviously has been able to improve MANY top professional players around the world, working almost exclusively on players' fundamentals FIRST! Read the article in the March BD...he teaches the same things, the same way we have been doing it for 3 decades or more!

You mentioned Efren and Earl...neither of which are qualified to give instruction...unless it's learning game strategy. Most pro players have no idea how to teach, analyze strokes using video analysis, and communicate in a manner the student can understand. Efren once, when questioned about giving lessons, responded: "If you want to learn how to shoot, go to a professional instructor!" I'd call that a solid recommendation! I have many times recommended going to Earl to learn how to play 9ball...but I would never send someone to him to learn a stroke (even though he has an incredible stroke himself)! Tony Robles, on the other hand, is not only a top pro player, but also an excellent professional instructor. There are many pro players who hang out a shingle and "give lessons", often charging an arm and a leg. Almost none are qualified.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawaiianEye View Post
Who says you "have to be certified" to be an instructor?

Certified by whom?

If I can beat the "instructor", shouldn't the instructor be taking lessons from me?

Is Efren "certified"?

How about Earl?


PBIA Master Instructor

Last edited by Scott Lee; 04-09-2019 at 09:42 PM.
  
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04-10-2019, 05:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Lee View Post
Hello Jim! Great speaking with you in January, when I was in Hawaii! Sorry we didn't get a chance to meet up and play some. Next time for sure! I very much appreciated your help in setting up a lesson at Hawaiian Brian's. I have to tell you that the absurd concept of "if you can't beat me, you can't teach me", is just that. To be able to learn, you must have an open mind. Those who think that way have closed minds,and are unable to learn anything new (because they already "know" everything)! LOL Many of us have worked with professional players and taught them things they didn't know, simply because they came to us with an open mind. Do all pro golfers belong to the PGA? No...but they all aspire to. Do all "instructors" need to be certified? No...but the best ones are. The PBIA is the only truly professional organization that holds instructors to certain standards. Is it perfect? No, but currently it is the best opportunity out there to belong to a professional association strictly for professional pool instructors. Lastly, do you really believe Johan Ruysink, coach of the winning US Mosconi Cup team, can beat any of those players? Nope...but he has great teaching and communication skills, and obviously has been able to improve MANY top professional players around the world, working almost exclusively on players' fundamentals FIRST! Read the article in the March BD...he teaches the same things, the same way we have been doing it for 3 decades or more!

You mentioned Efren and Earl...neither of which are qualified to give instruction...unless it's learning game strategy. Most pro players have no idea how to teach, analyze strokes using video analysis, and communicate in a manner the student can understand. Efren once, when questioned about giving lessons, responded: "If you want to learn how to shoot, go to a professional instructor!" I'd call that a solid recommendation! I have many times recommended going to Earl to learn how to play 9ball...but I would never send someone to him to learn a stroke (even though he has an incredible stroke himself)! Tony Robles, on the other hand, is not only a top pro player, but also an excellent professional instructor. There are many pro players who hang out a shingle and "give lessons", often charging an arm and a leg. Almost none are qualified.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Hi Scott, I think you are showing a bit of bias in making the blanket statement highlighted above. I can't speak for others but I must speak up for myself here. Though my pool career started out as a player I became a player/instructor over 35 years ago. My college years were devoted to becoming a teacher so I learned a great deal about developing strong communication skills.I hold no reservations in stating my students will attest to this. I hold my self and my instructions to a very high standard. Many years ago I did become "certified" by Jerry when it was called BCA. Since that time I never followed up with further upgrades. I did not and do not feel it necessary to become "recertified" by any institution regardless of its strong credentials. I have credentials of my own. People know me, and I rely on my reputation to generate a continuous following of intelligent students seeking not only strategic game concepts but also improvements in fundamental skills. I've no doubt there are many high quality instructors who hold similar thoughts.

Though the PBIA is a very reputable organization dedicated to providing high quality instructors for the pool playing public, acquiring certification from the PBIA is not for every instructor. The PBIA helps immensely in protecting the public from those who are unqualified to teach but I would hope you will agree that not everyone who lacks certification by the PBIA is unqualified to teach at a professional level.

I will close with this statement. The PBIA certifies only highly qualified instructors, so if you happen to be someone seeking a pool instructor you can't go wrong with a PBIA instructor but the PBIA is not the be all to end all. Just be careful and very selective should you consider choosing someone lacking PBIA certification.

Tom Wirth


One Pocket: A Game of Controlled Aggression.
inquiries trwirth369@gmail.com

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04-13-2019, 11:54 PM

Tom...Thank you for your well-informed opinion. Perhaps I should have said MOST of the best instructors are PBIA certified. Anyone who knows me, knows that I have suggested many other instructors who are not in the PBIA organization, David Sapolis, Joe Tucker, Tony Robles and Mark Wilson, just to name a few! All are great players and great instructors, with tons of "intelligent students seeking not only strategic game concepts, but also improvements in fundamental skills".

You're actually incorrect when you state that the PBIA only certifies "highly qualified instructors". I wish that were true, but unfortunately it's currently not. Certainly the majority of us are "highly qualified", but not all. Hopefully those that aren't (or aren't aware), seek to improve their teaching skills through continuing 'higher education' by teaching along with better instructors, and attending instructor workshops, such as the ones we put on at the annual BCA trade shows.

I'm happy that you got 'certified' by Jerry Briesath many years ago. It's a shame you didn't continue your association with our organization, regardless of reasons why, whether you chose to 'upgrade' to a higher level, or not. As in all sports, some instructors are better at their jobs than others, regardless of what the skill level of the instructor is, titles held, or inclusion in professional associations.

The common theme among all great teachers is a LOVE for teaching. Great communication skills is certainly a plus, and having a good handle on how to video analyze a student is even more important, in my opinion, than what 'badge' you wear on your shirt. I have certified instructors who are new to the PBIA, but highly skilled just the same (just one example is Joel Cochran in VA...there are many more). Another example is PBIA Master Instructor Lance Cowles, who is quite possibly, no offense intended, your equal as a one pocket teacher. He holds no titles (but he has beaten a few pro players playing 1-pkt), and hasn't written a book or produced videos (yet), but his skill as an instructor and his knowledge of how to "teach" your favorite game is unsurpassed...and this from someone who hasn't played and taught for 35 years like yourself. It would be fun to get the two of you together and listen to the discussion! It's even possible that you might learn something new. I certainly know Lance has zero ego, and would no doubt learn something from you as well! I know I personally relish opportunities to learn from other instructors, whether they are PBIA certified or not...and I'm talking about professional instructors, as opposed to 'pro players who give lessons'. Just because someone is a professional player doesn't necessarily mean they have any idea of how to teach. Conversely, I know many average, or better than average players who are, or have become great teachers. PBIA Master Instructor Jim Baker is another great example of a great player who has chosen to pursue teaching above competition, and gives 110% to furthering the sport, giving a LOT of his time, energy, and money to coaching a college team in MO, that is part of Mark Wilson's Collegiate Team Billiards program, still in it's infancy, but growing every year with phenomenal potential to grow the sport.

Currently there are somewhere around 265 PBIA instructors, in 6-8 countries, with about 95% in the USA. Our sport needs 1000's of qualified instructors, to service the needs and desires of the many millions of poolplayers who really want to learn! Without having instructors who have the desire to upgrade to a higher level, that will never happen (you have to be Advanced or Master level in order to certify a new PBIA instructor). Even my personal goal to grow the PBIA to 1000 members (4x our current level) sometimes seems like a pipe dream. That said, I will continue to help try to reach that goal...because I truly care about the future of our sport...which in the end relies on our junior players!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRWpool View Post
Hi Scott, I think you are showing a bit of bias in making the blanket statement highlighted above. I can't speak for others but I must speak up for myself here. Though my pool career started out as a player I became a player/instructor over 35 years ago. My college years were devoted to becoming a teacher so I learned a great deal about developing strong communication skills.I hold no reservations in stating my students will attest to this. I hold my self and my instructions to a very high standard. Many years ago I did become "certified" by Jerry when it was called BCA. Since that time I never followed up with further upgrades. I did not and do not feel it necessary to become "recertified" by any institution regardless of its strong credentials. I have credentials of my own. People know me, and I rely on my reputation to generate a continuous following of intelligent students seeking not only strategic game concepts but also improvements in fundamental skills. I've no doubt there are many high quality instructors who hold similar thoughts.

Though the PBIA is a very reputable organization dedicated to providing high quality instructors for the pool playing public, acquiring certification from the PBIA is not for every instructor. The PBIA helps immensely in protecting the public from those who are unqualified to teach but I would hope you will agree that not everyone who lacks certification by the PBIA is unqualified to teach at a professional level.

I will close with this statement. The PBIA certifies only highly qualified instructors, so if you happen to be someone seeking a pool instructor you can't go wrong with a PBIA instructor but the PBIA is not the be all to end all. Just be careful and very selective should you consider choosing someone lacking PBIA certification.

Tom Wirth


PBIA Master Instructor

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06-12-2019, 12:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Lee View Post

You mentioned Efren and Earl...neither of which are qualified to give instruction...unless it's learning game strategy.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Aloha Scott,

Sorry we didn't have a chance to get together.

I think Efren and Earl could teach people a whole lot of EVERYTHING.

They may not be an expert on video equipment or even the best communicator, but I'm sure they have enough "experience" to overcome the lack of "tech" and "polish".

How many "certified" instructors are there in China, Taiwan, and the Philippines?

Give me a call the next time you make it over.

Aloha

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06-15-2019, 03:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Lee View Post
Hello Jim! Great speaking with you in January, when I was in Hawaii! Sorry we didn't get a chance to meet up and play some. Next time for sure! I very much appreciated your help in setting up a lesson at Hawaiian Brian's. I have to tell you that the absurd concept of "if you can't beat me, you can't teach me", is just that. To be able to learn, you must have an open mind. Those who think that way have closed minds,and are unable to learn anything new (because they already "know" everything)! LOL Many of us have worked with professional players and taught them things they didn't know, simply because they came to us with an open mind. Do all pro golfers belong to the PGA? No...but they all aspire to. Do all "instructors" need to be certified? No...but the best ones are. The PBIA is the only truly professional organization that holds instructors to certain standards. Is it perfect? No, but currently it is the best opportunity out there to belong to a professional association strictly for professional pool instructors. Lastly, do you really believe Johan Ruysink, coach of the winning US Mosconi Cup team, can beat any of those players? Nope...but he has great teaching and communication skills, and obviously has been able to improve MANY top professional players around the world, working almost exclusively on players' fundamentals FIRST! Read the article in the March BD...he teaches the same things, the same way we have been doing it for 3 decades or more!

You mentioned Efren and Earl...neither of which are qualified to give instruction...unless it's learning game strategy. Most pro players have no idea how to teach, analyze strokes using video analysis, and communicate in a manner the student can understand. Efren once, when questioned about giving lessons, responded: "If you want to learn how to shoot, go to a professional instructor!" I'd call that a solid recommendation! I have many times recommended going to Earl to learn how to play 9ball...but I would never send someone to him to learn a stroke (even though he has an incredible stroke himself)! Tony Robles, on the other hand, is not only a top pro player, but also an excellent professional instructor. There are many pro players who hang out a shingle and "give lessons", often charging an arm and a leg. Almost none are qualified.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Teach Earl not to crouch Scott and revitalize his career. His legs aren't what they once were. If a guy like me can benefit imagine someone with skills. He can stop by and thank me for it later.

Now as far as learning from players below your speed. If I'm a pro then sure, new things I learn may well come from instructors I can beat.

If on the other hand I suck eggs? And the instructor still can't beat me? Should they be teaching pool? It does make you wonder when you see certified instructors with Fargo ratings below 500.

JC


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06-15-2019, 05:13 PM

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It does make you wonder when you see certified instructors with Fargo ratings below 500.

JC
There are players that play DAMN GOOD who have no rating at all. They just play pool.

When I was growing up in a pool hall, the owner had two establishments: the REAL pool hall that I worked in and another one that was "kid" and "family friendly".

The "family friendly" pool establishment had weekly and monthly tournaments and I never, once, entered one. The owner, who used to back me for hundreds a game, used to tell me that I should go there and play in one, but I never did.

I was content to beat their "winners" whenever they came to the real pool hall and there was money on the line. When they wouldn't gamble, I'd sometimes play them just to let them know that their trophies didn't mean they could beat everybody.

I am more interested in the "game" than the fundamentals. I already have the fundamentals down for about as far as I'm ever going to get them in my day in time. Basic instructors can teach you how to stand, align, etc., but very few of them are of the caliber of the pros who can tell you the "whys", "which ways", and "calculating percentages" of particular shots and strategies.
  
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