Ideal pocket size for 14.1

bigskyblue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm having a (9') table done with new Artemis (K-66) profile rails and Siminis 860.
I only play 14.1 "The Beautiful Game".

What is the "Ideal" pocket size for 14.1 on a (9') table?
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
For 14.1, anything tighter than 4.5 " is ridiculous. If you are a highly skilled player (at least a 50 ball runner), 4.5" should be fine. If you are less accomplished, I'd go with 4.75", and once your skill level rises, tighten to 4.5". Either way, the side pockets need to be 5".
 

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
4.75 to 5 inches
that is what was standard on gold crown 1

Wimpy played the larger one at home


straight pool requires using the whole pocket for precision shape
 

leto1776

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
.Gotta agree with those saying 4.5" to 5"

Anything smaller is just being masochistic when it comes to 14.1
 

tonemachine

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm only a 9 baller with 4.5 and even i sometimes miss the ability to cheat more pocket and casual players really have a hard time on my table. There is a thread somewhere in here with much more experienced people opining and I recall them preferring bigger pockets for your game.
 

Palmerfan

AzB Gold Member
Silver Member
Agreed

4.75 to 5 inches
that is what was standard on gold crown 1

Wimpy played the larger one at home


straight pool requires using the whole pocket for precision shape

4.75 for the top players is tough enough for the very skilled...Schmidt said one of his 400's was on 5". 4.50 for 14.1 is VERY tough and counterproductive to high runs..any smaller (4.25) is impossible. Even TAR was going to change the table if Schmidt / Harriman agreed to rematch, as they knew the table they have/had - was way too tight for Straight Pool...and thats for a 400 ball runner...
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
Somewhere between 4,5 and 5 (but no more than 5) is perfect IMHO. I play on a shimmed GC that's at 4,25'' and it is holding my runs down, This size is detrimental to the game in many respects, since it limits certain position plays and makes cheating the pocket very hard. I'm preparing for a tournament and need the added focus from narrow pockets, and to boost my pocketing confidence. For everyday play and enjoyment of the game I feel that 4,75 is better.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I pretty much play only 14.1 and can run over 50. I had my option like you, and went with 4 13/16 on a GC5, which is just a tad over 4.75. It worked out that way due to the pocket facing thickness. My thought process was that 5" can make you a little sloppy and handicap you when you play in a league or tournament, while 4.5" limits your ability to move the cue ball as it should in advanced 14.1 play. I honestly don't know how important that really is when you are talking about the difference between 4.5" and 4.75". I just didn't want the table to hinder my progress. The game is plenty hard enough and you need to achieve superior pocketing ability in any case to play at a high level.
 

HurdyGurdy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I honestly don't know how important that really is when you are talking about the difference between 4.5" and 4.75".

The pool hall I've been playing at has a Diamond table next to a Gold Crown; the Diamond has the standard 4.5 and the GC has 4.7 pockets. The difference is definitely noticeable. I'm a novice--my 14.1 high run is 14 balls :eek: thus far, I'm working on it--and I can tell the difference in pocket size. I can only imagine that a seasoned veteran would definitely notice, and be skilled enough to use that 1/4 inch to their advantage.
 

14-1StraightMan

High Run 127
Silver Member
A very important part of a table playing properly is the Shelf size. I have a table that has a wide mouth (which I like) but the Shelf goes very deep into the pocket. I hate it. I have many balls hang up on me ending good runs compared to other tables. For those of you who think a Diamond table has a deep shelf.... it is not as deep as my table. Diamonds play great (properly) to me..... 14.1 and all the different games in pool should be played on the same size & shelf as a Gold Crown I, Centennial, Anniversary (they are all the same). That is the way pool has been played since the very old days. Pockets that are shimmed, to me is like altering equipment. The game was meant to be played by cheating pockets and using the rails to get by a blocking ball to the pocket. Players who only play on shimmed tables do not learn to use all the pocket. I see this all the time during league play. (on a side note I am going to look into different slate to see if one can fit my table to cut down the shelf size one day).....
 
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driven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A very important part of a table playing properly is the Shelf size. I have a table that has a wide mouth (which I like) but the Shelf goes very deep into the pocket. I hate it. I have many balls hang up on me ending good runs compared to other tables. For those of you who think a Diamond table has a deep shelf.... it is not as deep as my table. Diamonds play great (properly) to me..... 14.1 and all the different games in pool should be played on the same size & shelf as a Gold Crown I, Centennial, Anniversary (they are all the same). That is the way pool has been played since the very old days. Pockets that are shimmed, to me is like altering equipment. The game was meant to be played be cheating pockets and using the rails to get by a blocking ball to the pocket. Players who only play on shimmed tables do not learn to use all the pocket. I see this all the time during league play. (on a side note I am going to look into different slate to see if one can fit my table to cut down the shelf size one day).....

Slate is very soft stone, not that it really matters. They cut circles in granite.
A marble or granite shop that specializes in counters could cut them down as much as you want. And I believe they could do it right in your home.
Be sure to get the best mechanic available.
just a thought.
steven
 

wrldpro

H.RUN 311/Diamond W.R.
Gold Member
Silver Member
4.75 to 5 inches
that is what was standard on gold crown 1

Wimpy played the larger one at home


straight pool requires using the whole pocket for precision shape
How would you know that is true.
Wimpys table was a 5x10 gandy with 4 inch pockets and slow cloth.I have played on Wimpys table alot and it is now at his nephews house Mike Lassiter just outside of Elizabeth City Nc
 

LightsOut

Jason
Silver Member
I'll give any player in the world 5 trys on a 5X10 with 4 inch pockets and bet they can't run 50................$2500.



DTL


Hi Duke,

I'd like to state this first: I have watched your videos and have most respect for your judgement and 14.1 skill.

That being said, I don't know if you would offer this up to a whole world of top flight snooker players used to 12' tables, 3.5" pockets and slow cloth...I can think of a few of them who could probably run 100 on the 4" 5x10! Recently I played on a 12' table for 2 hrs, three days in a row and on the end of the third night went over to a GCIII with 4.5" pockets and it looked like a sandbox, almost a joke really. It made me feel so silly thinking I was good when I ran 50 balls on a 9' table. Really, compared to the skill, accuracy and fundamental technique required by that snooker equipment, the 9' table is a relative 'joke'. Just saying, 5x10 is tough, 4" pockets with 2.25" balls is tough but pro snooker equip is even tougher and guys are putting up 147's in pressure situations...
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
I'll give any player in the world 5 trys on a 5X10 with 4 inch pockets and bet they can't run 50................$2500.

DTL

I don't think they'd do it given 100 tries. We're talking way more difficult than the table used in the 2013 DCC 14.1 Challenge, a 5 x 10 with 4 1/2 " pockets. Not one of the stars of pool managed 100, and they surely had a couple of hundred tries between them. A snooker pro named Pettman was the only played who managed 100.

I think a run of 30 on a 5x10 with 4" pockets would be an incredible run. Until today, I'd never even heard of a 5 x 10 with 4" pockets.
 
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Palmerfan

AzB Gold Member
Silver Member
Too small

I'll give any player in the world 5 tries on a 5X10 with 4 inch pockets and bet they can't run 50................$2500.

DTL

I agree on 4" pockets with 5 tries for a 50 run...but you don't need to have a 5x10 with pockets that small and only 5 attempts for that result...i don't think it can be done on a 4.5 x 9 by the top guys with 4" and only 5 tries...Thorston, Daz..etc
 

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi Duke,

I'd like to state this first: I have watched your videos and have most respect for your judgement and 14.1 skill.

That being said, I don't know if you would offer this up to a whole world of top flight snooker players used to 12' tables, 3.5" pockets and slow cloth...I can think of a few of them who could probably run 100 on the 4" 5x10! Recently I played on a 12' table for 2 hrs, three days in a row and on the end of the third night went over to a GCIII with 4.5" pockets and it looked like a sandbox, almost a joke really. It made me feel so silly thinking I was good when I ran 50 balls on a 9' table. Really, compared to the skill, accuracy and fundamental technique required by that snooker equipment, the 9' table is a relative 'joke'. Just saying, 5x10 is tough, 4" pockets with 2.25" balls is tough but pro snooker equip is even tougher and guys are putting up 147's in pressure situations...

Pool table may look like sandbox but did you make huge runs after playing snooker?
snooker pockets are tighter but balls are also smaller and at snooker you only need to go rack once or twice per frame.
I practice some times snooker also because it sharpens fundamentals.
Shotmaking is more difficult in snooker but game structure is that you don´t need to shoot hard shots really. If you do need to shoot hard shots you don´t make good breaks.
Also you can make 100 break at snooker by 13 reds and 13 blacks, its 26 balls and maybe 1 hit to cluster.
Straight pool 100 need 100 balls pocketed. Plus you need to go on rack multiple times.. so comparing snooker and straight pool runs are not really good way to look at things IMHO.
I was 19 years old and played snooker 3 months after i made my first century break. I needed 13 years to make it straight pool...
I did not play snooker nearly 5 year period and I had trick shot show on small billiard happening and one junior snooker player asked if i play game after show and i tell O.K.
When i was racking 9-ball rack he told me he want to play snooker.. I just tell him i´m pool player and i don´t really play snooker(there was Pro snooker player also doing exhibition) so i can suck maybe..
After he break i made 98 break at pool cue.. i could make hundred but i tried get last ball out from cushion and missed color coz of that. :)

Snooker tables normally have heating and fast cloth at pro level.
But Snooker pro players are awesome and if they get practice on any pool table they will make hundreds for sure but not on 5 tries tight pockets. Or maybe they do but they need to bet 2500$ for doing that 5 tries. I don´t think anybody takes that bet.:wink:
I also practice nowadays really tight tables (dunno american measurements but they have really brutal pocket cut angle ...) and running about hundred is really HARD especially if cloth if little worn out and racks does not get apart well...
 
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