Newbie:playing 14.1 correctly

justnum said:

As a new 14.1 player

I get caught up in pocketing balls, having a plan to runout is a trap I have fallen in.

The disconnect is if I plan to runout I don't have the ability to position the cueball.

It sounds like an issue I can fix but the problem is I shoot and the cueball does something I did not see coming.

So if my plan is a fail, I don't plan again because it never pans out

Click to expand...

Well, if that's the case, maybe a couple of general principles will be helpful:

1. Do whatever is necessary to keep the cueball off the rail. Many beginners runs ended two or even three balls before they eventually missed, because they got on the rail and never got a chance to recover properly. Oh, and that reminds me: Be realistic about what you can do from the rail. Do NOT force anything, unless there is absolutely no other choice.

2. Do not touch balls that can be pocketed where they are. To expand on that point, try to play the cueball into an area that is as clear as possible. Do not get close to balls you do not need to touch. This is almost the entire game, when the balls are open. It's hard to overstate the importance of this! The worse a player is, the more important it becomes to be safe about positioning the cueball. It's better to take a little bit (little being the operative word) of a longer shot, than to be snookered with no shot. Spread the balls out all over the table, then try to run out without touching any ball other than the one you pocket! Harder than you may think especially if you give yourself a realistc 14.1 dispersion of the balls. Then try to do it on half the table. I guarantee you will learn something you can use in your straight pool game from this drill!

Personally I prefer playing position on balls inside the cluster (if it's a "loose" cluster), rather than go into the balls. If feel that this is the edge that allows me to run more balls than people who theoretically shoot straighter than me. Doing it this way allows me to guard against getting bad rolls. Be patient. Don't take unnecessary chances. If, on the other hand, you have an extremely delicate position shot to get to that ball, as a beginner, you should blast into the cluster! Percentages are not just for card players!

3. Whenever it's feasible, play position for multiple balls. Pick an exact spot every time, but try to make sure you have an alternative, if you should come short or overrun that position.

Straightpool_99 said:

Well, if that's the case, maybe a couple of general principles will be helpful:

1. Do whatever is necessary to keep the cueball off the rail. Many beginners runs ended two or even three balls before they eventually missed, because they got on the rail and never got a chance to recover properly. Oh, and that reminds me: Be realistic about what you can do from the rail. Do NOT force anything, unless there is absolutely no other choice.

2. Do not touch balls that can be pocketed where they are. To expand on that point, try to play the cueball into an area that is as clear as possible. Do not get close to balls you do not need to touch. This is almost the entire game, when the balls are open. It's hard to overstate the importance of this! The worse a player is, the more important it becomes to be safe about positioning the cueball. It's better to take a little bit (little being the operative word) of a longer shot, than to be snookered with no shot. Spread the balls out all over the table, then try to run out without touching any ball other than the one you pocket! Harder than you may think especially if you give yourself a realistc 14.1 dispersion of the balls. Then try to do it on half the table. I guarantee you will learn something you can use in your straight pool game from this drill!

Personally I prefer playing position on balls inside the cluster (if it's a "loose" cluster), rather than go into the balls. If feel that this is the edge that allows me to run more balls than people who theoretically shoot straighter than me. Doing it this way allows me to guard against getting bad rolls. Be patient. Don't take unnecessary chances. If, on the other hand, you have an extremely delicate position shot to get to that ball, as a beginner, you should blast into the cluster! Percentages are not just for card players!

3. Whenever it's feasible, play position for multiple balls. Pick an exact spot every time, but try to make sure you have an alternative, if you should come short or overrun that position.

Click to expand...

this may be a little too advanced for a player that cant control the cue ball.
good advice but not for this player.
to the OP you have to learn how to control the rock.

justnum said:

As a new 14.1 player

I get caught up in pocketing balls, having a plan to runout is a trap I have fallen in.

The disconnect is if I plan to runout I don't have the ability to position the cueball.

It sounds like an issue I can fix but the problem is I shoot and the cueball does something I did not see coming.

So if my plan is a fail, I don't plan again because it never pans out

Click to expand...

From your description, it sounds like you aren't hitting the cue ball where you think you are. Work on your stroke and/or alignment and possibly some positioning drills to get consistent feedback.

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[.........

justnum said:

As a new 14.1 player

I get caught up in pocketing balls, having a plan to runout is a trap I have fallen in.

The disconnect is if I plan to runout I don't have the ability to position the cueball.

It sounds like an issue I can fix but the problem is I shoot and the cueball does something I did not see coming.

So if my plan is a fail, I don't plan again because it never pans out

Click to expand...

It will come with experience. There is a diagram in Ray Martin's fantastic book 99 critical shots which shows what English to use to get one rail position. It sounds and looks simple but it is common for beginners to not know this. You might want to pick up a copy. There is no replacement for time spent at the table but Ray's book will get you pointed in the right direction.

Straightpool_99 said:

2. Do not touch balls that can be pocketed where they are. To expand on that point, try to play the cueball into an area that is as clear as possible. Do not get close to balls you do not need to touch. This is almost the entire game, when the balls are open. It's hard to overstate the importance of this!

Click to expand...

Pretty much this one thing has improved my game a lot. When I start running into open balls, I never seem to get a lucky roll. It always gets worse, and the run ends.

justnum said:

As a new 14.1 player

I get caught up in pocketing balls, having a plan to runout is a trap I have fallen in.

The disconnect is if I plan to runout I don't have the ability to position the cueball.

It sounds like an issue I can fix but the problem is I shoot and the cueball does something I did not see coming.

So if my plan is a fail, I don't plan again because it never pans out

Click to expand...

Although I agree with the advice you got so far, the fact remains, you're not going to improve unless you remember and compare and/or put in perspective, by which I mean, you need to have "a plan" (more specifically, a visualization of what you're going to do to feed your subconscious - not words), then take in (without judging!) what actually happened (one's subconscious doesn't need, nor deserve, nor make the best of bashing - no need to make a fuss about wanting to pocket a ball and play position, that's the name of the game as is). I sometimes jokingly (although I'm being serious) tell students that in Straight Pool, always try to find the easiest, least risky and mort straightforward thing to do (the kind of shot a beginner couldn't miss plus provides plenty of insurance in case something goes wrong, so there's no pressure), try to execute to perfection all the same (i.e. the fact that it looks easy is no excuse to take it easy), then live with the result (the joke usually is: be satisfied with the mess you've made of it). What happens is, the better one gets, the more one will actually find shots to shoot and positions to play that "can't possibly go wrong", and the more the "didn't get it absolutely perfect" part is minimized in the sense that you're fighting for every inch, but even in a worst case scenario, always get to where the run continues with minor adjustments, and of course with plenty of insurance in case something does go wrong, so that when that happens, you'll feel like it was part of your plan and not sheer blunder (= "I knew this could happen, was prepared for it" - so no big deal, regroup, change of pattern, and off to the races again).

Basically, without a plan, and no remembrance of what happened in a similar situation/layout last time, it's always going to feel like the first attempt. Experience is the result of taking in, accepting what happened, and remembering. Remembering the comparatively little that goes wrong shouldn't become a problem of self-esteem - which is why I said, take in but don't judge, much like a zen buddhist. Seriously, it's sufficient to take notice. One's subconscious doesn't need to be told (let alone continually) pool is about pocketing balls and playing position. It's simple really: don't waste opportunities to learn and improve, so never do anything without purpose (unless you're convinced there's nothing else to do, a 9-Ball player's once in a lifetime experience, and really a no-go in Straight Pool), and never turn your back on what happened (which is easier once one stops rating it all on a scale from good to bad). Be still and observe!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

Straightpool_99 said:

3. Whenever it's feasible, play position for multiple balls. Pick an exact spot every time, but try to make sure you have an alternative, if you should come short or overrun that position.

Click to expand...

This piece of advice is a real gem. Back when I was buying Accustats straight pool videos, I noticed that the best straight players did exactly this. Matches with Mizerak and Sigel woke me up to this. Our position play is likely never going to be as precise as the pros, so by making sure that you play into zones where at least two shots are available you will run a lot more, I think. It increased my runs dramatically.

Another thing that increased my runs was working backwards from the break ball looking for shots that led up to the break ball. I came up with a method for doing this that I shared on here 8 years ago. It was like the clouds parted. I'll try to find the thread and link to it here. I have a feeling that the diagrams are no longer supported because it was done on the Wei's old cuetable. But I may draw them out again, because it was an important discovery for me.

One last thing. Precise rather than sloppy ball pocketing seems to make my position play twice as accurate. Finding the exact contact point on the object ball (while sensing the cue ball contact point) and visualizing the 90 degree tangent line off of the object ball really sharpens everything up. It's easy to get lazy and not go through a precise preshot visualization and routine. That laziness gets us nothing but frustration. Be very precise and consistent with your preshot routine and preshot visualizations. Line up and visualize the entire shot while standing. Then get down into position with trust and precision.

Here's the old thread. I was right about the original diagrams not showing up, so I created a few new ones below showing what I'm referring to in the thread.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=97866

Basically, when all clusters have been resolved and you no longer need to nudge balls, you can plan the end pattern backwards from the break ball. It's even possible to plan an entire rack of balls if you have the mind for it. Below are two open tables. At first glance they just look like 15 balls thrown randomly on the tables. But with the right plan of attack, the first layout allows you to play all stop shots all the way to the break ball. The second layout allows you to play almost all stop shots all the way to the break ball.

The trick:
A) First decide on a good break ball. From the pocket where the break ball will be pocketed, draw a line to the break ball and from there take a sharp turn to continue the line along the angle that would be appropriate for the shot to break up the next rack. Keep traveling along that line until you approach another object ball. This will be your key ball for the break ball.
B) Draw a line from the key ball to a pocket that would be appropriate to pocket the key ball. Then, from that pocket draw a line back through the key ball until you approach another object ball. That object ball will be your key ball to the key ball.
C) Draw a line from this new ball to a pocket that would be appropriate to pocket it. From that pocket draw a line back through this ball until you approach another object ball. That object ball will be the ball before the key ball to the key ball.
D) Keep going for as long as you can bear. :wink:


First Layout:




Second Layout:




First Layout with the method's lines drawn beginning with the 15-ball break ball and continuing sequentially to the 1-ball first ball:




Second Layout with the method's lines drawn beginning with the 15-ball break ball and continuing sequentially to the 1-ball first ball:




Edit:
In the original thread I described shapes that look like "y" or "4" or "d" when you draw through the pockets and 3 balls that make up the break ball, key ball, and key ball to key ball. Here's a diagram of what I was referring to:

Cool. I think it will help a great deal, like it did for me. It's hard to know where to start without working backwards. By the way, I just added a diagram that shows the different shapes that I refer to in the original thread.

justnum said:

The first time I read that book and the Byrne's Book, I could recreate the effects described. However incorporating the knowledge during play was challenging. i didn't realize how much more I would have to learn and keep learning.


For a beginner, the volume of shots and shot variations, English, Speed, Power, Stroke and Position play, it just is too much.

I always knew pocketing was important, but to get to the next level was a mystery. People talk position play or aiming, I just wasn't personally ready to learn it.

I never made a plan on what goals would make sense to reach for next. I wasn't going to reach for position play, if I can play a long draw shot. I wasn't going to reach for safeties, if my cue ball control on follow shots were weak.

Overall most advice here for 14.1 specifically about game strategy is new. As for the technical aspects of pocketing skills, that is another beast.

Click to expand...

I'm not talking about the entire book. I have the book but I'm not sure where my wife put it the last time she reorganized things. It might be page 62. It is a diagram which shows what English to put on the cue ball to control it one rail.

If you try to absorb the entire book you will be overwhelmed but start with that diagram and learn the angle the cue ball will take going one rail. If the cue ball is going in an unexpected direction this is a good place to start. There is no replacement for time at the table but this one diagram is like gold for a beginner.

Straightpool_99 said:

3. Whenever it's feasible, play position for multiple balls. Pick an exact spot every time, but try to make sure you have an alternative, if you should come short or overrun that position.

Click to expand...

This can't be overstressed as it forms the basis of the "insurance" concept. Amateurs sometimes mistakingly believe looking for insurance ball scenarios is only important when one goes into a cluster (or re-breaks the stack etc. = i.e. the mistake is to look for insurance in potential "trouble situations" only instead of making a habit of it without adding pressure or the need of multiple levels of awareness). The truth is that great Straight Pool players do this no matter what the circumstances (= be aware of escape routes). What's equally as important to realize is that to have "insurance" (= options versus trying to thread the needle "do or die") is no justification to take a shot or position play any less seriously. The pros aren't better because they continually thread the needle, nor because they're good leaving themselves options, but because they do both! What it does is keep them from getting in trouble on two levels instead of just one - like adding a safety net when they've already got one.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

bluepepper said:

Here's the old thread. I was right about the original diagrams not showing up, so I created a few new ones below showing what I'm referring to in the thread.

Click to expand...

@Jeff:

I understand you are using these diagrams to illustrate what is possible, if not practical. This looks like a good method when there are 5 or 6 balls on the table to see if any good stop shot patterns are available.

I took your first diagram as an opportunity to say how I would approach this table. See diagram below.

After recognizing that my opponent has managed to sell out in an epic way I choose the 15 as the break ball. I'm looking for problem areas and noting that the 7 is going to cause me to travel more than I'd like, and the 10 needs to be played carefully. The 8 on the rail is fine because it gives me an easy path to the 9. The 11 is uncomfortably close to the break ball, but it passes to both corner pockets, so isn't too bad.

Next, I'm observing that I can create a triangle of ball clusters, outlined in colors below. It isn't generally good to have balls below the break ball, so I want to clear the blue clustered balls first. Clearing the red cluster next will set me up for the third leg of the triangle, the green balls.

At this point I know there are no real problem balls, but I want to have an idea of how I am going to get from one group of balls to the next, and what my first shot is going to be. The 14 is the easiest shot to get started, and a stun shot puts me onto the 2 ball so that I can get started on the blue group. If I get straight on the 11 I am going to shoot it in the corner before I shoot the 2 and draw back a tad for the 2. I just don't like to have that 11 so close to my break ball for the end pattern.

I still haven't hit a ball, but I'm realizing that I'll be shooting either the 6 or 12 as my transition from the blue to the red group. All I need to know about the red group is that I want the 8 to be my transition to the green group because I have an easy shot on the 9 from the 8. At that point I'll just have stop-stop on the 10 and 1 balls to finish the rack. I like thinking about 2 key balls near each other rather than just one. This is something I observed from a Danny Harriman video. Having a "second" key ball allows you to fine tune the break ball angle. I've used this idea with good results.

Just wanted to throw that out there...

Dan White said:

@Jeff:

I understand you are using these diagrams to illustrate what is possible, if not practical. This looks like a good method when there are 5 or 6 balls on the table to see if any good stop shot patterns are available.

I took your first diagram as an opportunity to say how I would approach this table. See diagram below.

After recognizing that my opponent has managed to sell out in an epic way I choose the 15 as the break ball. I'm looking for problem areas and noting that the 7 is going to cause me to travel more than I'd like, and the 10 needs to be played carefully. The 8 on the rail is fine because it gives me an easy path to the 9. The 11 is uncomfortably close to the break ball, but it passes to both corner pockets, so isn't too bad.

Next, I'm observing that I can create a triangle of ball clusters, outlined in colors below. It isn't generally good to have balls below the break ball, so I want to clear the blue clustered balls first. Clearing the red cluster next will set me up for the third leg of the triangle, the green balls.

At this point I know there are no real problem balls, but I want to have an idea of how I am going to get from one group of balls to the next, and what my first shot is going to be. The 14 is the easiest shot to get started, and a stun shot puts me onto the 2 ball so that I can get started on the blue group. If I get straight on the 11 I am going to shoot it in the corner before I shoot the 2 and draw back a tad for the 2. I just don't like to have that 11 so close to my break ball for the end pattern.

I still haven't hit a ball, but I'm realizing that I'll be shooting either the 6 or 12 as my transition from the blue to the red group. All I need to know about the red group is that I want the 8 to be my transition to the green group because I have an easy shot on the 9 from the 8. At that point I'll just have stop-stop on the 10 and 1 balls to finish the rack. I like thinking about 2 key balls near each other rather than just one. This is something I observed from a Danny Harriman video. Having a "second" key ball allows you to fine tune the break ball angle. I've used this idea with good results.

Just wanted to throw that out there...

Click to expand...

I realize the question wasn't directed to me, but if I may add my 2 cents' worth, the two things I see first are A) according to experts like Jim Rempe, don't leave a doubled-up end pattern (i.e. don't leave both the 1 and the 9 (which is why I might shoot off the 14 and 1 to get to the 2, and B) if you can (without making the sequence play any less naturally), get rid of the balls that are close to a cushion early, because they are hard to play position on/with late in the rack: 7, 8, 10 - whereas the 5 would be a good key ball for the 15, as good as the 10 with 9 as key-to-the-key, and much better than the 10 without the 9 as K2.

On a side note: the 11 may look like a textbook key ball, but really only is if one leaves the red group balls to get to it, which makes me think it's not. The 14 may look like a textbook key ball provided on leaves the red group balls to get to it via 7 last (as key to the key). What this means is one cannot leave both the 11 and the 14, but had better decide early and get rid of one or the other. The 10 is only acceptable as key ball if one leaves the 9 (see above: if so, need to get rid of 14 and 1 immediately).

Etc. & etc. - beware of too many options!

(Personally, I might go: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 7 and 14 as key ball - but that's just me, I love boring stop shot patterns. Needless to say, one could go numerical all the way, which I'm sure is what the diagram is implying to begin with, the only problem I have with that is that getting on the 13 e.g. straight-in third to last is less of a certainty than getting roughly straight-in on the 7, plus the 13 covers part of the positional area if one went 6, 7, 8, 9 etc. - often leads to being too straight on the 8 and having to roll the 9 in from the side rail, or having to do something extra to get the cue ball off the rail shooting the 8, making it at least theoretically more missable. Having said all this, I'll admit the older and blinder I get, any given shot can't be easy enough for me…)

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

Great posts, Dan and David! Dan, it's good to hear from you after all these years. This reminds me of the discussions we used to have in the "Run This" threads. I loved learning the different takes everyone had on the same layouts. If I had the energy that I had 8 years ago I'd set up more. Too bad the CueTable isn't available anymore though.

acousticsguru said:

according to experts like Jim Rempe, don't leave a doubled-up end pattern (i.e. don't leave both the 1 and the 9)

Click to expand...

David - can you expand on this idea? I'm not sure what you mean.

get rid of the balls that are close to a cushion early, because they are hard to play position on/with late in the rack: 7, 8, 10 - whereas the 5 would be a good key ball for the 15

Click to expand...

Of course there are always exceptions to the rule, and as you say if you have to go through gyrations to get the rail balls off first, then it isn't worth it. It seems to me the 8 is OK left as is, and is at least as good a "key" ball as the 5, also on the rail, don't you think? There are multiple balls in the red area to assure that you have a shallow angle on the 8 so you can leave the cue ball at least a few inches off the rail for the 9.

(Personally, I might go: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 7 and 14 as key ball - but that's just me, I love boring stop shot patterns. Needless to say, one could go numerical all the way, which I'm sure is what the diagram is implying to begin with

Click to expand...

Yes, it probably goes without saying that this is the easiest route. However, I doubt I'd ever be able to recognize such a pattern in a timely way.

I'm always eager to learn from your experience. Thanks for any comments!

@Jeff: Hi Jeff. Yes, those diagrams were interesting to play around with. There are a couple of alternatives to the cue table, but aren't nearly as user friendly.