Jump cues for the pros, yes or no?

Jump Cues for Professional Pool

  • Yes, jump cues should be allowed in professional touraments.

    Votes: 53 53.0%
  • No, jump cues should not be allowed in professional tournaments.

    Votes: 47 47.0%

  • Total voters
    100
  • Poll closed .

PoolSharkAllen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm sure some guys look like a deer in the headlights, crying for mommy, when you force them kick instead of jump.

HAHAHA!
So if we extend this peculiar "reasoning" to other sports, we'll have NBA superstars crying for mommy if we ban the 3-point shot? LOL, or if golfers are forced to used putters to drive the ball 200 yards down the golf course? :rolleyes:

In addition to banning jump cues, let's ban cue extenders and break cues too while we're at it. Don't forget to ban pool gloves and Kamui chalk too. Now everyone will be crying out for mommy. :D
 

Celtic

AZB's own 8-ball jihadist
Silver Member
I guess the real question is why are amateurs asking what the rules should be for professional players?

Amateurs should follow and emulate what professionals players do. Not the other way around.

I have heard Donny Mills and Earl Strickland give their opinions on why jump cues should "not" be allowed, I have yet to truly hear a pro player that thinks jumps cues should be allowed. So maybe your own advice would lead you to think twice about your stance on the subject.
 

SJDinPHX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jump cues are an abbarition to an otherwise skilled execution, of any given shot it is used for...It is tantamount to cheating...We might as well allow shoveling under the cue ball, to jump over any obstruction. Whats the difference ?

It is not the way pool was meant to be played...(or, I guess most pros don't like jump cues, just because they are forced to use them in self defense)...If you need to jump, do it with a standard cue, not one designed for a specific use...Lets also allow spring loaded cues for breaking...I could build one that would exceed 200 mph...Then you'd have to go out and buy one, just to keep up with your opponent...:p

Jump cues are a gimmick, designed, and sold to mostly bangers...They are not allowed in the skill games, like one pocket or 14.1...That should tell you something....:rolleyes:

PS..SVB has become pretty proficient with a JC...but he, like Buddy, Earl, or Efren (and many other top player's), would like to see them banned, and rely on kicking skills to get out of a trap...:cool:
 
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Masayoshi

Fusenshou no Masa
Silver Member
There is plenty of skill in using a jump cue. I don't see why they should be banned. Just hitting the ball is fairly easy, but so is just hitting the ball with a kick. The skill is in potting the ball and making shape or getting safe off of a jump. Most B and C players that use jump cues just sell out when using them anyways, unless you hang the ball for them, they rarely do anything productive with a jump cue.

Full cue jumps are impressive and all, but, really, they are limited in what speed and spin you can use and what kind of arc you can get the cue ball to take. Jump cues allow you to jump with finesse and isn't finesse what the game is about?

I'm sure plenty of people complained that the game wasn't meant to be played with off center shots when Captain Mingaud introduced the leather tip, but I think everyone would agree in hindsight that it was a valuable addition to the game. I bet they even had the argument that "So and so pro can use english without a leather tip, so english should be allowed, but leather tips should be banned because they let Joe-C-player spin the ball without miscuing. It takes all the skill out of the game!" Any instrument that allows you to use more skill in the game is worth having.
 
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Cue Alchemist

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If your safty is tight enough Jump cues becomes in afective anyway! It all comes down too how good your safty game is:smile:
 

Brozif

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It just astonishes me that individuals think that the only way it's safe, is that it has to be jam tight or frozen! It's gotten to be that way, because of the invention of these cheating aids known as jump cues!:angry:

Learn to kick properly and you'll learn and appreciate the beauty of any safety!

These gimmicky jump cues completely disrespect the knowledge and ability of the player that has successfully executed a shot that has left you with an obstructed path to the object ball!

Pool balls where never intended to leave the surface of the table. They are round so they ROLL around the table. The only things they should bounce off of are rails and other balls! JMO
 

WFD

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why allow jumpshots at all? Sure, it gives another dimension to the game. But, imho, only for those who can't handle the game and table. I love the "foul and a miss" rule in snooker after a good safe.

Someone compared with golf.
They have made lots of restrictions about #clubs and material. Even banned people from using a cue as putter. And probably most people with a sigle handicap can drive 200 yds with a putter.
 

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
It just astonishes me that individuals think that the only way it's safe, is that it has to be jam tight or frozen! It's gotten to be that way, because of the invention of these cheating aids known as jump cues!:angry:

Learn to kick properly and you'll learn and appreciate the beauty of any safety!

These gimmicky jump cues completely disrespect the knowledge and ability of the player that has successfully executed a shot that has left you with an obstructed path to the object ball!

Pool balls where never intended to leave the surface of the table. They are round so they ROLL around the table. The only things they should bounce off of are rails and other balls! JMO

Get a grip... Efren changed the safety game at the pro level.. His return kick safeties and ability to kick balls in had everyone scrambling to develop their kicking skills and to hone their defensive skills to the point where whitey was stuck to something.

Earl wants to make jump cues illegal because he thinks he has the best of it jumping full cue with anyone in the world.. He may be right but he wants rid of the shorty for no other reason....

I have only seen Mills a few times in person so I am not sure if his motives are based upon a superior kicking game, a safety game that hasn't received the attn his offense has, superior full cue jump skills, or a bad memory of a bad beat that came from someone breaking out a shorty when he had the path the the object ball only blocked....

The skills required to jump a ball and truly control the outcome of where the cueball and object ball end up far exceeds basic shot making. Add left or right english for position play and you are effectively shooting jump masse shots. Learning to control the height and distance to create an accurate hit and outcome is brutal at best... Sell outs are more common place than great execution in most situations.

Most of the easy jump shots come about from misses, not a pure safety. It is very common for me to be reaching for my jump cue or jumping full cue after someone shoots a 2way and comes up short of making the ball leaving it near the hole... You never leave the object ball near the hole if you are playing safe and not freezing whitey....

Pick a professional match on youtube at random.. Count the number of times the players go get the shorty.... I would be willing to bet for most professional matches that the use is somewhere around 1%... As far as I can recall I only remember it being used a very few times in a TV match at the Open in the last few years.....

Shane shot a full cue jump shot at DCC this year.... It was THE shot of the tournament and has been viewed by most of us on AZB... I think after watching the shot the questions about should jumping be illegal would be rendered mute.... Well unless you ask Alex....
 

Mr. Wiggles

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jump it baby!

The fact that it is 60-40 right now makes me wanna use mouthwash. I am very surprised this many people feel that way. To counter just one of your points though, don't we see more safeties get nullified by kicks than by jumps? I know you wont argue against kicking. I posted this thought before, but I welcome jump cues, there is almost a total loss of control of the ob with them with the average player. I'm just one of these guys that never expects (or feels the need for) ball in hand, all I do expect is a calculated chance at control of the table. I guess my point being, think like me and you will have less problems with rules that we obviously all have to live by. But to each their own. I mean who cares how the cb and ob got where they are when you come to the table, just deal with it. Sorry, but that is the attitude of a good player imo. :)

I also like it when my opp breaks out their jump cue. Most fail. Other than pros who are pretty adept at jumping and maybe some A players, most players fail at jumping. Even a good hit usually results in loss of control. I carry a jumper but rarely use it. I used it one night just to show my team I too could jump. Actually twice in the same game with good results. I only know of one guy who was a regular Joe that was successful 70-80 percent of the time. We non jumpers need to park whitey very snug to OB. That's the answer! I would think if one was not successful most of the time then he should hang up his jumper! Jumping is not good for the cloth either. It also gives an edge to the A players who jump well, and they already play better! Lots of tourneys going to NO JUMP. Don't even think of jumping on my home table!
 

Brozif

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Get a grip... Efren changed the safety game at the pro level.. His return kick safeties and ability to kick balls in had everyone scrambling to develop their kicking skills and to hone their defensive skills to the point where whitey was stuck to something.

Earl wants to make jump cues illegal because he thinks he has the best of it jumping full cue with anyone in the world.. He may be right but he wants rid of the shorty for no other reason....

I have only seen Mills a few times in person so I am not sure if his motives are based upon a superior kicking game, a safety game that hasn't received the attn his offense has, superior full cue jump skills, or a bad memory of a bad beat that came from someone breaking out a shorty when he had the path the the object ball only blocked....

The skills required to jump a ball and truly control the outcome of where the cueball and object ball end up far exceeds basic shot making. Add left or right english for position play and you are effectively shooting jump masse shots. Learning to control the height and distance to create an accurate hit and outcome is brutal at best... Sell outs are more common place than great execution in most situations.

Most of the easy jump shots come about from misses, not a pure safety. It is very common for me to be reaching for my jump cue or jumping full cue after someone shoots a 2way and comes up short of making the ball leaving it near the hole... You never leave the object ball near the hole if you are playing safe and not freezing whitey....

Pick a professional match on youtube at random.. Count the number of times the players go get the shorty.... I would be willing to bet for most professional matches that the use is somewhere around 1%... As far as I can recall I only remember it being used a very few times in a TV match at the Open in the last few years.....

Shane shot a full cue jump shot at DCC this year.... It was THE shot of the tournament and has been viewed by most of us on AZB... I think after watching the shot the questions about should jumping be illegal would be rendered mute.... Well unless you ask Alex....

You prove my point! Efren is so good at kicking, that instead of people practicing and taking the time to achieve his skill level at it, their answer is the invention of this jump cue so that they don't have to. That cheapens the game! ALL JUMP SHOTS SHOULD BE ILLEGAL! That is my opinion and I'm entitled to it! I said nothing about the skill it takes to perform a jump shot. That is a debate for a different time!
 

Celtic

AZB's own 8-ball jihadist
Silver Member
If your safty is tight enough Jump cues becomes in afective anyway! It all comes down too how good your safty game is:smile:

A way overused bullcrap arguement.

How is it that thinning an objectball to reposition it while spinning the cueball with a huge amount of high inside siding to go off 4 rails and a distance traveled of 14 feet on the cueball, getting behind the object ball and hooking the incomming player on that ball that you repositioned while moving the cueball off so many rails with so much control of the speed and spin over 14 feet of travel, but you "ONLY" get 2.5 inches from frozen on the blocker on THAT shot so your safety game just sucks and now Jimbo gets to yank out a jump cue and totally nullify that shot.

People like to assume every safety is a stop shot or a short traveling one rail safe behind a ball, there are ALOT of truly difficult to excecute multi-rail safeties that are extremely hard shots and people acting like "well you did not get frozen so the safe sucks and now he gets to jump" are not using their heads in that instance.
 

Pete

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How I feel is simple. if phenolic break tips are legal, and extensions are too, why not jump cues.

If you learn to break then a regular tip is great. If you shoot off handed, no extension is needed.

Jump cues, they're ok with me...

Pete
 

Brozif

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A way overused bullcrap arguement.

How is it that thinning an objectball to reposition it while spinning the cueball with a huge amount of high inside siding to go off 4 rails and a distance traveled of 14 feet on the cueball, getting behind the object ball and hooking the incomming player on that ball that you repositioned while moving the cueball off so many rails with so much control of the speed and spin over 14 feet of travel, but you "ONLY" get 2.5 inches from frozen on the blocker on THAT shot so your safety game just sucks and now Jimbo gets to yank out a jump cue and totally nullify that shot.

People like to assume every safety is a stop shot or a short traveling one rail safe behind a ball, there are ALOT of truly difficult to excecute multi-rail safeties that are extremely hard shots and people acting like "well you did not get frozen so the safe sucks and now he gets to jump" are not using their heads in that instance.

Tap...Tap...Tap!:thumbup:

Wow! I made this exact comment to a friend last night when we were debating this subject at the pool table! I wish I could give you rep for this, but it says I must spread it around.
 

SUPERSTAR

I am Keyser Söze
Silver Member
Who knew that if you took away the jump cue, you could buy stock in Kleenex because of everyone crying.

Tissues for everyone!!!:D
 

hdgis1

New member
There was a time when I felt jump cues were ok. Now, with years of reflection, I see them as a crutch, gimmick, pocket fisherman of pool. I know they make many manufacturers a ton of cash, but when I see a player pullout a jumper it seems to cheapen the experience IMO. Safety play is a HUGE part of the game, and when a well executed, well thought out safety is nullified by a jump shot, then somehow the cueball gets safe, it makes me sick.

Jumping with a full cue is great IMO.....if you can do it, win with it! to break out a shorty because you got put into a trap makes me want to go floss and use mouth wash!

G.

forgot what I was gonna say...
 
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The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
A way overused bullcrap arguement.

How is it that thinning an objectball to reposition it while spinning the cueball with a huge amount of high inside siding to go off 4 rails and a distance traveled of 14 feet on the cueball, getting behind the object ball and hooking the incomming player on that ball that you repositioned while moving the cueball off so many rails with so much control of the speed and spin over 14 feet of travel, but you "ONLY" get 2.5 inches from frozen on the blocker on THAT shot so your safety game just sucks and now Jimbo gets to yank out a jump cue and totally nullify that shot.

People like to assume every safety is a stop shot or a short traveling one rail safe behind a ball, there are ALOT of truly difficult to excecute multi-rail safeties that are extremely hard shots and people acting like "well you did not get frozen so the safe sucks and now he gets to jump" are not using their heads in that instance.

Your argument is mute because yet again a flawed example is used.... If you used distance which is rule number one in safeties and left the ob on the end rail traveled 14 feet to the other end rail and got the cueball 2.5 inches behind a blocker you have played a good safety... No one but an amateur is jumping for that hit.......

now had you picked that shot with a blocker 8-10 inches off the rail and left that kind of a gap.. you would have played a bad safety but in all likely hood the kick will still be played before the jump.......

Stop leaving the object ball near a pocket and 5+ inch gaps and you will notice the jump cues staying in the cases.....
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
It just astonishes me that individuals think that the only way it's safe, is that it has to be jam tight or frozen! It's gotten to be that way, because of the invention of these cheating aids known as jump cues!:angry:

Learn to kick properly and you'll learn and appreciate the beauty of any safety!

These gimmicky jump cues completely disrespect the knowledge and ability of the player that has successfully executed a shot that has left you with an obstructed path to the object ball!

Pool balls where never intended to leave the surface of the table. They are round so they ROLL around the table. The only things they should bounce off of are rails and other balls! JMO

Actually some think that pool evolved from croquet. In croquet people make jump shots. If you go to bars where people don't have a clue about the "official" rules you will see tons of people playing jump shots where they scoop the cue ball.

In fact no one knows how the game was "meant" to be played because it's been in a state of evolution for hundreds of years. Maybe it was meant to played with a mace because that's what they played with 350 years ago. Maybe it was intended to be played with one hole in the center of the table.

Mace.png


The Evolution of Billiards

Maybe pool was not "intended" to be played on a LEVEL surface;

"Until the middle of the eighteenth century, billiard tables were crudely constructed, with little concern given to the stability of the piece. The bed was nothing more than a thin wooden board, and the inner construction did little to keep the board from warping. "

http://www.tradgames.org.uk/games/Billiard-Family.htm

Maybe pool was never meant to be played with a leather tip.

Maybe pool was never meant to be played with chalk.

Whoever invented indoor tables games using balls and a stick surely set down a lengthy treatise on what they meant the game to be.

All of these so-called innovations are distortions of what the game was meant to be.

------------------------------------------------------

Here is what I think about the whole "the way pool was meant to be argument"

All of these games where you have a set of balls and a striking implement and a tightly contained playing surface have one thing in common. They all require the player to use an INERT object to strike ONE ball and make it move. The player must rely on his own judgement and proficiency to make that ball do anything. This has been a constant throughout the evolution of the billiard games.

Diamonds were invented and put into use to aid in sighting I think.

In any event all of the innovations that have been put into the game from the striking part of the game have been in the service of INCREASING the range of shots and INCREASING control over the cue ball.

For example:

  • Turning the MACE around to use the skinny end to strike the cueball.
  • Adding a piece of leather to the end to increase friction and protect the wood.
  • Using chalk to increase friction.
  • Making comfortable tapers to aid with a level stroke.
  • Creating low-defelction and radially consistent shafts for dependable consistentcy. (and more spin if you beleive the ads)
  • Using shorter cues to comfortably execute legal jump shots.
  • Gloves to eliminate friction on the bridge hand.
  • Ass weights for stability.
  • Bridges and cue extenders to comfortably reach the shot.

All of these things and more were introduced in crude form and all of them have EVOLVED into what we have now.

None of them take the shot for the player. The player has to step to the table with his striking instrument and strike the ball. How well he controls the ball has everything to do with his skill because the INSTRUMENT is presumed to be the best that is available for the task.

In other words if Minguad were resurrected from the grave then you wouldn't see him trying to compete with today's players using the same equipment from 1792.

The way the game was MEANT to be is to allow the player to gain the most control possible over the cue ball using their own muscles and brain. Not to limit them because of equipment.

A modern jump cue is a CUE. It's use does not harm the balls, does not harm the cloth, does not harm the slate. It has been approved for amateur and professional play by all national and world associations governing pool worldwide. Only private, for-profit groups such as the APA and some tournaments forbid this cue because of personal bias on the part of the founders/directors.

You can debate all day long about the pros/cons of USING jump cues and what they mean to the way the game is played. But please stop with the argument that it distorts the way the game was MEANT to be played because history clearly shows otherwise.
 

The Chinchilla

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A way overused bullcrap arguement.

How is it that thinning an objectball to reposition it while spinning the cueball with a huge amount of high inside siding to go off 4 rails and a distance traveled of 14 feet on the cueball, getting behind the object ball and hooking the incomming player on that ball that you repositioned while moving the cueball off so many rails with so much control of the speed and spin over 14 feet of travel, but you "ONLY" get 2.5 inches from frozen on the blocker on THAT shot so your safety game just sucks and now Jimbo gets to yank out a jump cue and totally nullify that shot.

People like to assume every safety is a stop shot or a short traveling one rail safe behind a ball, there are ALOT of truly difficult to excecute multi-rail safeties that are extremely hard shots and people acting like "well you did not get frozen so the safe sucks and now he gets to jump" are not using their heads in that instance.

I agree, that is an BS argument. But safeties being "nullified" by jumping is a BS and overused argument as well.
 

risky biz

Banned
Thats OK, you are new around here but we already had THAT discussion as well when we discussed phenolic tips on jump cues and break cues so we don't need to discuss it yet again. Feel free to use the "search" function and catch up on that discussion though if you so desire.

So there's another thread somewhere that will tell me what kind of tip is assumed on the jump cues in this poll? That's pretty unique.
 
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