The softer the tip, the more spin you can get? is this accurate.

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I swear i miscue more with a soft tip and less accurate because generally soft tips compress and find them inconsistent. Any hard tip that takes chalk will perform much better in all aspects imho.

Logical thinking (whatever that is) will tell you a soft tip will conform to the cueball providing a better seal/friction. At the miscue limit though, it's possible that where the hard tip will glance off the ball, the soft tip will "mush" off; ie giving you less feedback on an impending miscue especially if it's coming several shots hence.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been told that. With the ld shafts and the current Simonis cloth, I'll let yah know. I've tried 4 different tips on the same ld shaft over a two week period and none of em allow me to draw my rock, like I know I can. I've got a couple more to try and I'll give you my opinion. One things for sure, I'm no longer able to draw the ball with my new LD shaft, with my Kikel handle with the LePro tips anymore, that's a given. My thinking is the newer cloth has allot less grip, and more slippage? than the Simonis of the 90's. Still looking for the answer.

Quick thought; maybe draw requires significant vertical deflection?
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Boxcar...How far do you follow through to get the most draw?...how far do you follow through to get the least amount of draw?

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

I practice with soft, medium, and hard tip cues. The variable that effects amount of draw for me is follow through. Maybe the soft tip works a little better. But I'm not practicing to see how far I can draw. I try to practice inches of draw, like precise measurements so I can predict where my CB will end up.
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
evergruven...The dwell time the tip is in contact with the CB (1/1000th of a second) is not affected by tip hardness...afterall, we're talking about 4x faster than an eye blink. It simply is insignificant.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

sure- agree
but even if spot for spot, a soft tip doesn't create more spin
being able to safely access more of the cue ball
is worth considering

of course this example isn't the same as
"a soft tip creates more spin than a hard tip"

that said
due to a longer contact time
it seems like a soft tip could create (slightly) more (or less) spin
it just might not be perceptible- ?
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
...maybe draw requires significant vertical deflection?
Typical deflection is in the same range as the amount of typical cue elevation with draw (a few degrees), so the deflected force delivered to the CB is roughly horizontal. That isn't required (it's inevitable, if that's what you mean), but it helps.

pj
chgo
 

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You have doubts about Dr Davs methods?
Exactl?y what doubts do you have on exactly what method

If you are such an expert on methods etc,why don't you get a soft tip and a hard tip and see which one produces the most spin?

I think it was Bob Dylan who said"you don't need a weatherman to know which waythe wind blows"

why impugn one of the best members on the forum?
 
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Boxcar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Boxcar...How far do you follow through to get the most draw?...how far do you follow through to get the least amount of draw?

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Thank you. Sometimes when I'm practicing, I deliberately try to leave "skid marks" on the cloth to help me think about staying down on the shot. The skid mark probably starts about 2 inches after contact with the cue ball and can run 7 or 8 more inches. When I achieve that goal, my draw is actually kind of severe. I can shorten the draw dramatically by hitting the cue ball with a slightly higher "chip shot." I'm sorry but I don't explain stuff very well.

Oh, I meant to say that I make the skid marks by letting the tip scoot on the cloth.
 

oldroller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
An old guy

an old guy (about my age) plays with any old house cue with probably a Lepro or what ever banks with the best of them on not very good equipment .No tellin how good he would be with a fancy tip,expensive chalk & custom cue & a high dollar case..He just knocks the balls in!
 

WildWing

Super Gun Mod
Silver Member
Boxcar...How far do you follow through to get the most draw?...how far do you follow through to get the least amount of draw?

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

This has to be the best sucker question of all time on this forum.

I can follow through my entire shaft, and get either extreme draw, a stop shot, or follow, for that matter.

For that matter, I can follow through pretty short, and get a bit of follow, a stop shot, or pretty good draw.

It's cue attitude, and the force of the strike, not the amount of follow through.

Not sure what you looking for, but this is it. Entertaining post, this one is.

All the best,
WW
 

brilliance

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hi

I always had "flat" shaped tip until I discovered DrDave and other teachers so in order to further improve I switched to their proffered shape and was not happy at all thinking that I have to improve to benefit from it..

Recently Reyes had interview where I found out that he had his tips made almost flat as well. I flatten my tips and guess what? I can still draw good and once again I can control cueball way better.

I think that we all need to experiment and find what works best for us. Different cues, cue weights, tappers, tip sizes, cue balance, shaft kinds, stroke types affect how cue plays, only experimenting can help. I dont think there is general rules for this. I only think that soft tips let us control cueball better in short distances and play & control short positions easier.
 
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straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
[/B]
I don't understand that term. I just can no longer, put the cue ball 2' away from the object ball and easily draw it 5 feet.

I've seen you play. You had an atypical grip and a smooth albeit arcing delivery. you've gotten human since then? :D You said LD shaft so some of the boing that's missing is not only horizontal but vertical as well. A standard house stick might provide different results? For me long taper shafts - long before anybody used the term LD made draw easier. For me it's because of the taper allowing the cue to stay on plane.

Typical deflection is in the same range as the amount of typical cue elevation with draw (a few degrees), so the deflected force delivered to the CB is roughly horizontal. That isn't required (it's inevitable, if that's what you mean), but it helps.

pj
chgo

lD shafts are kind of a mystery to me. I've tried 'em but only on those beyond perpendicular rail shots. Much easier with a house stick. So, what I reason is that draw might require what, if not for the table surface, would be vertical deflection or the force of vertical deflection thereof. Yeah I just said that. Age.
 

asbani

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I always had "flat" shaped tip until I discovered DrDave and other teachers so in order to further improve I switched to their proffered shape and was not happy at all thinking that I have to improve to benefit from it..

Recently Reyes had interview where I found out that he had his tips made almost flat as well. I flatten my tips and guess what? I can still draw good and once again I can control cueball way better.

.

This is exactly my point, as well as I agree with Hawaiian also, I rather listen to the pro's, and I do agree with Floren, as recently I've been experimenting myself between Lepro's and Sniper tips, one is pretty hard, one is soft, and I love both tips, however I feel that I can put far more draws and spins with my sniper as oppose to the lepro, but in the same time and as Floren mentioned, with the long shots, I feel that I pocket tough long shots with lepro better.

I felt this before even watching the video, but it just confirmed what I believed before.

As far as the forums instructors and scientists, they do what they have to do, it is their job, even though they are teaching what they think is right, but sometimes what they think is not always correct, they just don't know that it is incorrect, and I stick by what I said, in DrDave site, there are many misinformation, as the way he experiments to deduce results are flawed, he doesn't follow the scientific methods properly, this is my personal opinion.

The quoted post here is a person who went from flat tip to round to follow drdave advice and he found contrary results, then he followed efren advise (A pro) and he got the best advice, think about it.
 

Boxcar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I always had "flat" shaped tip until I discovered DrDave and other teachers so in order to further improve I switched to their proffered shape and was not happy at all thinking that I have to improve to benefit from it..

Recently Reyes had interview where I found out that he had his tips made almost flat as well. I flatten my tips and guess what? I can still draw good and once again I can control cueball way better.

I think that we all need to experiment and find what works best for us. Different cues, cue weights, tappers, tip sizes, cue balance, shaft kinds, stroke types affect how cue plays, only experimenting can help. I dont think there is general rules for this. I only think that soft tips let us control cueball better in short distances and play & control short positions easier.

When you talk about flat, how flat do you mean? Can you do a simple drawing of your tip?
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... Now my question is, with all the threads I have read on azbilliard, I think azbilliard disgree with him? ...
You don't have to listen to anyone here or Florian or anyone but yourself. Just do your own experiment. Try different tips for yourself. But there are a couple of problems....

The first is that you probably have no idea how hard the tips you use are. Do you know what a hardness scale is? A local cue maker had a hardness gauge and tested tips before he put them on customers' cues. He said the label on a box of tips was only a very rough indication about the harness of the tips inside the box.

The second problem is deciding how to measure how far off center you can hit. Do you have a particular shot in mind? I have a shot where with left side spin the right side of the cue ball is actually moving backward -- back towards me -- when the ball leaves the tip. Do you know how to do that? It is a pretty severe test of ability to apply spin.

The standard "wisdom" is that soft tips may hold chalk better and hard tips will be more consistent.
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
Bill,

the amount of draw you get is directly related to the speed of the cue when it contacts the cueball, and the weight/mass of the object hitting it. a cue that is lightweight near the tip will always draw less assuming all other things equal.

too slick of cloth can keep the cue ball from grabbing and coming back.
siliconed cueballs, which many are nowadays draw much farther as they have less friction on the cloth. that is why the trick shot artists get to do all those funny things with the cue ball. along with some trick cueballs.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... a cue that is lightweight near the tip will always draw less assuming all other things equal. ...
That would be true if the full mass of the cue did not push the ball ahead more or less equally. But the full mass is involved, so the exact mass distribution within the stick is not significant. Do you feel that a brass rod insert in the front of the shaft would allow you to spin the ball better?
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I always had "flat" shaped tip until I discovered DrDave and other teachers so in order to further improve I switched to their proffered shape and was not happy at all thinking that I have to improve to benefit from it..

Recently Reyes had interview where I found out that he had his tips made almost flat as well. I flatten my tips and guess what? I can still draw good and once again I can control cueball way better.

I think that we all need to experiment and find what works best for us. Different cues, cue weights, tappers, tip sizes, cue balance, shaft kinds, stroke types affect how cue plays, only experimenting can help. I dont think there is general rules for this. I only think that soft tips let us control cueball better in short distances and play & control short positions easier.

Assuming a good stroke, the flat tip can be more forgiving of slight placement errors. IOW the ball won't spin nearly as much as with a rounded tip. People like Reyes who play tight, simple patterns (nevermind the magic; talking only about just plain not dogging it), probably value the fat hit zone and consistency that a flatter tip affords. Add a harder leather and you can find more consistency at greater distances.

I use a rounded Elkmaster and put the effort into perfecting my stroke. At least to the degree I require. (not a whole lot)
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That would be true if the full mass of the cue did not push the ball ahead more or less equally. But the full mass is involved, so the exact mass distribution within the stick is not significant. Do you feel that a brass rod insert in the front of the shaft would allow you to spin the ball better?

bob, from a "feel" perspective, the mass distribution might matter
especially using an open bridge, I feel more comfortable and play better
when I feel like the cue I'm using is a part of my body, rather than apart of my body
 
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