Rail cloth install without Dado

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SNO

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Hey gius. Just watched both videos. Not ready to install yet but you pros make it look so easy! I did have a question or two.

1. My rails don't have dados in the back. Would this change anything about how I install them if I'm using the glue down method?

2. I have fastbond 10 in the mail. If I use this instead of super 77 is there anything different about install? (I think I read just the vertical edge of slate needs to be glued with fastbond)

3. I'm replacing my cushions as well. Will super 77 (or super 90 the hi-strength version) work instead of fastbond 10? I can't ever see myself using it again, so I would return it if I can use spray adhesive instead. If not id rather use fastbond 10 for the cloth and cushion to get as much of it used as possible.

Here's a pic of my rail back for reference:
image.jpg
 
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SNO

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Also am I ****ing up the slate? Trying to remove glue. Used the suggested spray remover on the first quarter you see here. But it feels like I'm just scraping slate and scratching it up. Would there be any reason besides glue that the play surface is as dark as it it is? Spray adhesive remover isn't working as well as I thought here

Edit: would it be possible to flip the slate? It's smooth and not dark on the other side, save for the glue on the edges
image.jpg
 
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realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Well, I for one sure can't tell much about the rails by the pictures you've posted, or the slate, or the table.
 
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SNO

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realkingcobra said:
Well, I for one sure can't tell much about the rails by the pictures you've posted, or the slate, or the table.
Click to expand...

Sorry. Are they too small or just not clear? I posted from my phone. The rails are just the back but there's no dado. The dark part of the slate is rougher and feels like there's adhesive or SOMETHING on it, but its not coming off cleanly with scrapers or a chisel after using goof off and the spray adhesive remover. The lighter part is the part that I've scraped so far. I'll try and post se better quality pics in the morning. It would be a whole lot easier just for me to flip the slate, but idk if there's any reason I shouldn't
Thank you.
 
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SNO

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Here's some pics I took with my iPad instrad of my phone. Hope they help.
The first ones are of the slate before I started scraping. There is also a pic of the bottom of the slate for reference. Thank you guys for the help.
http://m.imgur.com/a/gDAyH
 
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S

SNO

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SNO said:
Here's some pics I took with my iPad instrad of my phone. Hope they help.
The first ones are of the slate before I started scraping. There is also a pic of the bottom of the slate for reference. Thank you guys for the help.
http://m.imgur.com/a/gDAyH
Click to expand...

Just got home. Here's some more pics. I hope these help. In addition to my original questions I'm just wondering if I'm actually scraping glue off or damaging the slate excessively based on the pictures, and if I am is it okay to flip the slate and use the bottom instead? I'm considering giving a mechanic a call but the only one in NorCal is a traveling mechanic and it seems a waste just to get glue off, as I literally have everything else.thank you guys for your help.
http://m.imgur.com/a/bQVtR
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Look, I'm trying to help you if I can, but take some pictures of the whole slate from different angles as well as the rails, from different angles. Take the cloth off the rails as well, that way I can see the rails better. I looks like you're trying to scrape the black off the slate, not the glue build up around the edges, but I cant tell if you're cleaning the glue off the bottom side, or the playing surface side in your pictures. I can't tell a thing about your rails, not all rail blocks have a cloth relief Dado cut in the back side, but all you're showing me is the back side of the rails....I can't see what you have, I'm not standing there looking at it like you are.
 
ROB.M

ROB.M

:)
Silver Member
Table

When you say " without dado " I think you are referring to not having a feather strip is what you mean to say?
I believe Glenn thinks you are talking about not having a cloth relief dado at the bottom....

Pick up the simonis install DVDs at Seyberts and you'll be good to go on the recovery part.
Use glens advise on glue remove and especially the scraper configuration he suggests.




Rob.M
 
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S

SNO

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realkingcobra said:
Look, I'm trying to help you if I can, but take some pictures of the whole slate from different angles as well as the rails, from different angles. Take the cloth off the rails as well, that way I can see the rails better. I looks like you're trying to scrape the black off the slate, not the glue build up around the edges, but I cant tell if you're cleaning the glue off the bottom side, or the playing surface side in your pictures. I can't tell a thing about your rails, not all rail blocks have a cloth relief Dado cut in the back side, but all you're showing me is the back side of the rails....I can't see what you have, I'm not standing there looking at it like you are.
Click to expand...

I apologize Glen. I'm trying to take glue off of the edges, but it appears the whole face of the slate is glued (the black color) it is rough and not smooth like other pieces of slate I've felt and seen. The black rough side was the top side when I purchased it, but I'm not sure if it was originally the bottom or not, because the bottom looks smooth and light grey like all slate I've seen before. That's what is making me think the slate surface was glued at one point.

As far as the dado I was referring to the rail cloth video where the ridgeback rails have 2 dados on the back for cloth relief (I'm assuming so the rails sit better against the frame without the cloth getting in the way) mine don't have any such dado, but like you said i guess not all of them have dados. I will recover them like the Simonis video suggests.

Here are some better pics
http://m.imgur.com/a/NG5lC
 
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SNO

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dontlitethat said:
When you say " without dado " I think you are referring to not having a feather strip is what you mean to say?
I believe Glenn thinks you are talking about not having a cloth relief dado at the bottom....

Pick up the simonis install DVDs at Seyberts and you'll be good to go on the recovery part.
Use glens advise on glue remove and especially the scraper configuration he suggests.




Rob.M
Click to expand...
I have the DVDs. Very well made. I'm just confused on my slate. I'm not 100% sure I'm scraping glue off surface, but I've never seen slate that is rough and black like this one
 
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Poolhalljunkie

Poolhalljunkie

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pictures

Pictures as requested will help tons.

After some of the work we have seen in the back work thread someone installing the slate upside down would not surprise me. If you can take a picture and label it top and bottom then that will help as well.
 
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SNO

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Poolhalljunkie said:
Pictures as requested will help tons.

After some of the work we have seen in the back work thread someone installing the slate upside down would not surprise me. If you can take a picture and label it top and bottom then that will help as well.
Click to expand...

Was the last set to specifications? The top side of the slate in the pics was the playing surface. I'm not sure if it was supposed to be the top, or if whoever out the cloth on last got lazy. The guy I got it from hadn't had it re-clothed in 15 years.
 
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RackemBilliards

RackemBilliards

Player, Room Owner
Silver Member
From your pics and descriptions would say that someone at some point installed the bed cloth by gluing the whole surface. That's disappointing. Was the whole bed cloth glued when you took it apart? That backed cloth that was on it may have actually helped you, as I think it would be even worse with a regular woolen (fuzzy) cloth. Normally, you could tell the top from the bottom because the slate would be rounded a bit in the pocket cutouts on the top. Those don't appear to be, and you might be able to use the other side. Sometimes it's not machined the same, though and you'd have to check it over. One pic appears to show a gouge or deep scratch and there may be more. Even if you had to fill those with bondo, that might be easier. Getting that glue off of the top will be a project, and I'd quit scraping. Maybe Glen knows of a good brushable remover for large areas similar to paint stripper? Whichever side you use, I'd check out another table to see the roundness of the slate in the pockets, and match that with a file and sandpaper. Neither of the spray glues will work for the rubber. If you use the fastbond for the rubber and cloth, there won't be a bunch left, and you'll find another use for it at some point. I'm using it to patch an air mattress today-it's good stuff. Just my thoughts. Good luck!
 
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SNO

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RackemBilliards said:
From your pics and descriptions would say that someone at some point installed the bed cloth by gluing the whole surface. That's disappointing. Was the whole bed cloth glued when you took it apart? That backed cloth that was on it may have actually helped you, as I think it would be even worse with a regular woolen (fuzzy) cloth. Normally, you could tell the top from the bottom because the slate would be rounded a bit in the pocket cutouts on the top. Those don't appear to be, and you might be able to use the other side. Sometimes it's not machined the same, though and you'd have to check it over. One pic appears to show a gouge or deep scratch and there may be more. Even if you had to fill those with bondo, that might be easier. Getting that glue off of the top will be a project, and I'd quit scraping. Maybe Glen knows of a good brushable remover for large areas similar to paint stripper? Whichever side you use, I'd check out another table to see the roundness of the slate in the pockets, and match that with a file and sandpaper. Neither of the spray glues will work for the rubber. If you use the fastbond for the rubber and cloth, there won't be a bunch left, and you'll find another use for it at some point. I'm using it to patch an air mattress today-it's good stuff. Just my thoughts. Good luck!
Click to expand...
Thank you for the detailed response. Yea there's a gouge or two that will need to be "bondo-ed". I'll check the pockets for a rounded edge when I get home. Hopefully there is some sort of stripper that works because goof off and the 3m spray are working on the edges but not on the playing surface. Worst case scenario and there's no stripper or solution, would flipping it be better than scraping the whole surface?
Idk if it makes any difference but the cloth appeared to be backed cloth. It had a canvas like backing that was on the slate side. It wasn't as glued down as the edges which Is why I was second guessing if it was glued down in the first place.
 
RackemBilliards

RackemBilliards

Player, Room Owner
Silver Member
SNO said:
Thank you for the detailed response. Yea there's a gouge or two that will need to be "bondo-ed". I'll check the pockets for a rounded edge when I get home. Hopefully there is some sort of stripper that works because goof off and the 3m spray are working on the edges but not on the playing surface. Worst case scenario and there's no stripper or solution, would flipping it be better than scraping the whole surface?
Idk if it makes any difference but the cloth appeared to be backed cloth. It had a canvas like backing that was on the slate side. It wasn't as glued down as the edges which Is why I was second guessing if it was glued down in the first place.
Click to expand...

I think it was. It would have loosened up a bit with play over the last 15 years, but if it seemed glued at all, I would expect it was. I hope someone chimes in here and tells us what the best thing to do is when someone before you glues the entire slate surface. Oregon and Texas can't be the only places where this stuff happens haha. Glen and Gordon were able to remove old spray glue pretty easily around the edges (easy for me to say) with the citrus spray remover. If that's not working on yours, I guess you have to consider that if they didn't know enough to not glue the surface, they probably didn't know what glue to use. It could be anything, is what I mean. I'm not sure how much value it has, but if you really want to know what I would do in your spot, here it is: barring some other removal method, I'd spray the entire surface with the citrus remover. After waiting a bit, I'd scrape the surface carefully, making sure to remove only glue and not getting into the slate. Then I would let it dry. Then I would make one of Glen's sanding tools using a 2 foot level with sandpaper attatched so that I could sand as flat and level as possible. I'd sand the surface with it and decide if I was happy with that. If not, I'd look at the other side. Then I would continue per the simonis dvds. All of that assumes, of course that I couldn't talk Glen into working on it. Which is what I would try first.
 
Poolhalljunkie

Poolhalljunkie

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Acetone

SNO said:
Thank you for the detailed response. Yea there's a gouge or two that will need to be "bondo-ed". I'll check the pockets for a rounded edge when I get home. Hopefully there is some sort of stripper that works because goof off and the 3m spray are working on the edges but not on the playing surface. Worst case scenario and there's no stripper or solution, would flipping it be better than scraping the whole surface?
Idk if it makes any difference but the cloth appeared to be backed cloth. It had a canvas like backing that was on the slate side. It wasn't as glued down as the edges which Is why I was second guessing if it was glued down in the first place.
Click to expand...


Best stuff I have used is acetone a little at a time lots of elbow grease Scotch Brite pads lots of them.

As far as the pictures go hard to tell by what you have posted, take a picture of the pocet area. Because as has been said before the pictures you have posted are not very helpful, not trying to detract from the help you seek just letting you know that if the pictures were better it would help you get the answers you seek.
 
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SNO

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Poolhalljunkie said:
Best stuff I have used is acetone a little at a time lots of elbow grease Scotch Brite pads lots of them.

As far as the pictures go hard to tell by what you have posted, take a picture of the pocet area. Because as has been said before the pictures you have posted are not very helpful, not trying to detract from the help you seek just letting you know that if the pictures were better it would help you get the answers you seek.
Click to expand...
Thank you sir. I hope these pictures are to specifications, and theat they clear up what I'm trying to say about the top and bottom of the slate. The FIRST picture is the top playing surface corner pocket, the rest are of the bottom of the slate. Notice the difference in the slate coloring than the rest of the pictures that have previously been posted. I am tempted to just use this side, and file/round the pockets as mentioned. For what it's worth both the top and bottom sides have very little filing/rounding to the pocket openings, nothing like there was on a 3piece slate table I used to have.
Thank you
http://m.imgur.com/a/z8BVa
 
C

cammel8

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SNO said:
Thank you sir. I hope these pictures are to specifications, and theat they clear up what I'm trying to say about the top and bottom of the slate. The FIRST picture is the top playing surface corner pocket, the rest are of the bottom of the slate. Notice the difference in the slate coloring than the rest of the pictures that have previously been posted. I am tempted to just use this side, and file/round the pockets as mentioned. For what it's worth both the top and bottom sides have very little filing/rounding to the pocket openings, nothing like there was on a 3piece slate table I used to have.
Thank you
http://m.imgur.com/a/z8BVa
Click to expand...

I have used acetone and zip strip before to clean a slate and both have worked. as far as flipping over slate, there are usually groves ground into the playing surface of the slate to help keep the cloth in place. if you have them you will now it and that is your top. You have to use that side.to get the best results. i myself would stop scraping if i where you. if you can't get it off with acetone and scotch brites then you are doing it wrong. It shouldn't take scraping to get it off unless you re being impatient.

As far as super 77 don't use it. I have 5 tables i have to go repair because i used super 77. Apparently they changed the formula and every table i have done with it since, the felt has come loose. I guess they sell the original formula under super 77 classic now but I'm not going to chance it. i will just go get fastbond 10 (scotch weld 10). A friend of mine who also does tables is having the same problems.
 
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