Ripped off?

It sounds like everyone, except the buyer and seller, are talking out of their butts, me included, since only
the buyer and seller know what conversations occurred at the outset & then all throughout the transaction.

Based upon my cue buying experience via Az and otherwise, the buyer is entitled to a refund if not happy.
I gotta believe when $2k is requested for a cue, the seller and buyer discuss its condition at some length.

If the cue isn’t as described, and that doesn’t mean almost either, the sale is void & the buyer gets a refund.

maha said:

thats a true sign you are going to get screwed. if they insist on f&f to play.
besides it marks them as a thief before you even start.

third party is the only way to go unless you have enough info to know your seller will ship after you have paid and the goods will be as described.

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Shame on me. We were looking for a puppy and found one online on Facebook that we liked. After much communication back and forth including phone calls, we made a deal for $600 that included shipping. The seller was out of state and I was wary at first but after hours of talking I agreed to the deal. I told him I would pay him via Paypal but he wanted me to overnight a bank check or money order. I told him I would not do that, and then he informed me his wife had a paypal account but would I send it to F&F. Stupid me was tired of all the back and forth and my wife really wanted the little dog (they had sent us many photos and even a video).

I sent them the money on Paypal and lo and behold I got burned! I contacted Paypal and they told me I had no recourse with them. I felt like the world's biggest fool. The next day I contacted my local FBI office (money did cross state lines) and was informed that the "puppy mill scandal" is one of the biggest, and they get reports similar to mine every day (they did take a full report from me). At that point all I could do was inform the folks at FB about what was going on and they took the account down the next day. I have to wonder how many people they scammed at five or six hundred a pop before they got shut down. Karma is a MF'er though and they will get their's one way or another.

Let the buyer beware I said and then I got burned. How smart am I ? Be careful and listen to the advice you were given by Maha above. He knew better than me.
P.S. This just happened a few weeks ago. I wasn't anxious to brag about it.

coon dogs

jay helfert said:

Shame on me. We were looking for a puppy and found one online on Facebook that we liked. After much communication back and forth including phone calls, we made a deal for $600 that included shipping. The seller was out of state and I was wary at first but after hours of talking I agreed to the deal. I told him I would pay him via Paypal but he wanted me to overnight a bank check or money order. I told him I would not do that, and then he informed me his wife had a paypal account but would I send it to F&F. Stupid me was tired of all the back and forth and my wife really wanted the little dog (they had sent us many photos and even a video).

I sent them the money on Paypal and lo and behold I got burned! I contacted Paypal and they told me I had no recourse with them. I felt like the world's biggest fool. The next day I contacted my local FBI office (money did cross state lines) and was informed that the "puppy mill scandal" is one of the biggest, and they get reports similar to mine every day (they did take a full report from me). At that point all I could do was inform the folks at FB about what was going on and they took the account down the next day. I have to wonder how many people they scammed at five or six hundred a pop before they got shut down. Karma is a MF'er though and they will get their's one way or another.

Let the buyer beware I said and then I got burned. How smart am I ? Be careful and listen to the advice you were given by Maha above. He knew better than me.
P.S. This just happened a few weeks ago. I wasn't anxious to brag about it.

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Hunting coons can be quite profitable besides being an entertaining sport. There was a fellow over Alabama way best I recall that was selling finished coon dogs for $2500 a pop many years ago. Advertised in national magazines and such and sold a bunch of dogs, or one dog a bunch of times. Then he went to the pound and grabbed every dog they would let him have. Shipped them all over the US and then ducked underground. That little deal grossed two-hundred thousand or so, not talking small change! A friend of a friend bought one of those $2500 mongrels. Since they bought a dog and received a dog authorities on either end weren't helpful at all.

As the FBI told you, you aren't the only one getting conned in the puppy game. Now that DNA testing is possible I suspect half the bloodlines in the AKA records won't check out. Some studs are on record for siring puppies when they were never within 500 miles of the gyp! I had a well bred ChowChow back when they were rare. I could have made three or four thousand a year just letting people use his name and number. Not gonna happen!

A cousin gave five hundred cash for a local supposed to be first class coon dog. He called me to ride when he tried him. Damned dog jumped a hot trail with a raccoon in sight less than a hundred yards away. The dog took off in the other direction backtrailing and never figured things out. Those woods were full of coons and I think the dog might have been going from trail to trail. Whatever, he never treed anything. I told my cousin about daylight we had better find that SOB to go get his money back first thing.

Louisiana law was that you had to have at least one dog to go hunting raccoons. An aunt had some little furry puppies one cold night. I was going to borrow one or two as hand warmers and to pull out when the game warden asked me about my dogs. Problem was I knew the game warden well, his wife worked in my grandmother's store and his son was one of my best friends. I knew the warden had zero sense of humor when it came to his job. My aunt was willing but I didn't go jacklighting with the three week old puppies!

I have driven six hundred miles or so to buy a puppy. So easy to bait and switch I want to see what I am buying. A good chance your seller used stolen images and video and never had the puppy.

Hu

This is exactly how it plays out 99% of the time. Authorities have better things to do, and really do not care.

JV

jay helfert said:

Shame on me. We were looking for a puppy and found one online on Facebook that we liked. After much communication back and forth including phone calls, we made a deal for $600 that included shipping. The seller was out of state and I was wary at first but after hours of talking I agreed to the deal. I told him I would pay him via Paypal but he wanted me to overnight a bank check or money order. I told him I would not do that, and then he informed me his wife had a paypal account but would I send it to F&F. Stupid me was tired of all the back and forth and my wife really wanted the little dog (they had sent us many photos and even a video).

I sent them the money on Paypal and lo and behold I got burned! I contacted Paypal and they told me I had no recourse with them. I felt like the world's biggest fool. The next day I contacted my local FBI office (money did cross state lines) and was informed that the "puppy mill scandal" is one of the biggest, and they get reports similar to mine every day (they did take a full report from me). At that point all I could do was inform the folks at FB about what was going on and they took the account down the next day. I have to wonder how many people they scammed at five or six hundred a pop before they got shut down. Karma is a MF'er though and they will get their's one way or another.

Let the buyer beware I said and then I got burned. How smart am I ? Be careful and listen to the advice you were given by Maha above. He knew better than me.
P.S. This just happened a few weeks ago. I wasn't anxious to brag about it.

Click to expand...

nick serdula said:

I never did anything like that. Ever. Show a picture of the cue please. Money is never a big deal with me as far as returning it. I have plenty. You are not telling the truth as a matter of a fact paste the thread this happened with. I do not think you can do it mainly because Tim and Mike would give me shafts so your story is pretty much BS. I never had anything like this except David Steelman saying the same thing about a cue he switched shafts on and sold ayear after he got it from me. There again why would I buy shafts to switch out when I was being given free ones?
Nick

Click to expand...

You’re a liar. It was Christmas Day and it had blue and green veneers I believe. You lied to me and then screwed me. If money isn’t an issue then PayPal me back the $200 you said you would
Carsly3388@gmail.com


Oh and here’s the thread toolbag...... https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=301031&highlight=Scruggs

POOLPLYR1111 said:

I have no problem sending payment via PayPal F&F to reputable AZ members

I have done it twice this month and actually suggested it so that the seller would not get hit with additional fees.

Someone like classiccues (JV) who has been in the industry for decades would certainly get that respect as would a lot of other AZ'ers.

Nick good luck in resolving your situation

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Exactly , Sellers who are reputable and are selling something and not making very much then you are helping them keep as much as they can. If I do not know the seller is reputable or not then I would not advise.

TheCueHunter said:

You’re a liar. It was Christmas Day and it had blue and green veneers I believe. You lied to me and then screwed me. If money isn’t an issue then PayPal me back the $200 you said you would
Carsly3388@gmail.com


Oh and here’s the thread toolbag...... https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=301031&highlight=Scruggs

Click to expand...

damn, lol.

nick serdula said:

I never did anything like that. Ever. Show a picture of the cue please. Money is never a big deal with me as far as returning it. I have plenty. You are not telling the truth as a matter of a fact paste the thread this happened with. I do not think you can do it mainly because Tim and Mike would give me shafts so your story is pretty much BS. I never had anything like this except David Steelman saying the same thing about a cue he switched shafts on and sold ayear after he got it from me. There again why would I buy shafts to switch out when I was being given free ones?
Nick

Click to expand...

So you are saying SUBDUDE1974/Steelman lied and actually switched out the shaft, and the CueHunter also lied about you doing the same thing, odd coincidence?


I had a question, you started this thread saying the Scruggs was a fake, but then never replied to all people asking about it, can you clarify?
Fake Scruggs for sale on the bay

Looking at the comments in the thread, like by sureman183 who states you had called one of his Scruggs a fake too.
Seems like a serious accusation that if you are going to make should be presented with some facts, not just calling the guy a scammer and his cue a fake then not responding to requests for clarification by members.


https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=510144

Nick,

FWIW, if this happened to me, I would not be a happy camper.
Both sides happy, or no deal.
Your time frame, though not as quick as you could have, was still in line.
Sorry, I feel your pain.

p.s..........it would be reasonable for you to “out” the seller.

Will Prout

Well we have shared much info, it is good to know PAYPALS guarantee is BS, hope the original problem resolved it self without a Trip to buyer how by a guy known as Rock Out Lights-out Rock O.

CocoboloCowboy said:

Well we have shared much info, it is good to know PAYPALS guarantee is BS, hope the original problem resolved it self without a Trip to buyer how by a guy known as Rock Out Lights-out Rock O.

Click to expand...

Paypal's protections, or "guarantee" as you put it, are quite clear. You are covered if using G&S but only for certain issues as stated earlier in this thread. I've only had to file a claim once(in roughly 10yrs of deals) and everything was made right in about 10days.

nick serdula said:

And if you work for a living three days is normal return time period some even as long as 30 days.

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There are return times, most agreed upon beforehand but I have never once heard of anyone returning a cue 30 days later. That’s bad news for both buyer and seller.

jay helfert said:

Shame on me. We were looking for a puppy and found one online on Facebook that we liked. After much communication back and forth including phone calls, we made a deal for $600 that included shipping. The seller was out of state and I was wary at first but after hours of talking I agreed to the deal. I told him I would pay him via Paypal but he wanted me to overnight a bank check or money order. I told him I would not do that, and then he informed me his wife had a paypal account but would I send it to F&F. Stupid me was tired of all the back and forth and my wife really wanted the little dog (they had sent us many photos and even a video).

I sent them the money on Paypal and lo and behold I got burned! I contacted Paypal and they told me I had no recourse with them. I felt like the world's biggest fool. The next day I contacted my local FBI office (money did cross state lines) and was informed that the "puppy mill scandal" is one of the biggest, and they get reports similar to mine every day (they did take a full report from me). At that point all I could do was inform the folks at FB about what was going on and they took the account down the next day. I have to wonder how many people they scammed at five or six hundred a pop before they got shut down. Karma is a MF'er though and they will get their's one way or another.

Let the buyer beware I said and then I got burned. How smart am I ? Be careful and listen to the advice you were given by Maha above. He knew better than me.
P.S. This just happened a few weeks ago. I wasn't anxious to brag about it.

Click to expand...

I know people see a check as an outdated method of payment but it gives you a physical address and it's mail fraud if they rip you off. Easier for the Postal Inspection Service in the area you mailed the check to because they have a physical address to investigate. Con artists can give paypal a vacant house as an address.

I use paypal for small purchases but for a deal like that I'd ask for a physical address to mail a check to - and your seller would probably balk at that idea which is a clue it's a rip off.

alstl said:

I know people see a check as an outdated method of payment but it gives you a physical address and it's mail fraud if they rip you off. Easier for the Postal Inspection Service in the area you mailed the check to because they have a physical address to investigate. Con artists can give paypal a vacant house as an address.

I use paypal for small purchases but for a deal like that I'd ask for a physical address to mail a check to - and your seller would probably balk at that idea which is a clue it's a rip off.

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Even if a person has a Post Office Box they are catchable. Real deal is most people are not dishonest.

Bad Apples make it bad for everyone.

dealing with any stranger you should always have a permanent address you can look up for info about them. and a phone number you can use to check on them. its not hard to find out much about a person to see if they are legit or not. you can even ask for a reference from someone in a brick and mortar business that you can call after google it. or from someone on here you trust that knows him personally.
if they wont supply that well you know what happens next.

CocoboloCowboy said:

Even if a person has a Post Office Box they are catchable

Click to expand...

What I like to do is wait around for them to get their mail, then tackle them.
That's how I catch'em

nick serdula said:

I bought a cue for 2K. I told the seller it was pretty but I would look at the next day. The next day I tell the seller the cue is not right. The third day I tell him I am sending your cue back. He says he refuses to refund my money. Has he committed fraud by selling me a cue that is not as described and refusing to refund my money? Telling me that is what he paid and tough sh&t.

Click to expand...

Nick, are you going to address Cue Hunter's complaint? Apparently you sold him a Scruggs, included non-original shafts by mistake and promised him a $200 refund that was not paid.

You have no legal obligation to pay him because the statute of limitations expired 4 years ago. What is your recollection of the event? You previously said it never happened, is that still the case? If it did happen as he said, would you consider refunding him because that's the right thing to do?