Deflection Differences Between Identical Shafts - Opinions?

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is a 2 part question that likely may have been addressed here before, but if so, I think it's been a while. I have 3 identical high end low deflection shafts from the same company and same exact model, same exact tip, all purchased within 6 months of each other.

First question - will all 3 identical shafts deflect the cue ball virtually the exact same to the extent that it would be impossible to measure any difference, even on a shot loaded up with maximum spin? I guess one way to answer this question - I assume pro players have 2-3 absolutely identical shafts/tips that they keep with them at all times at tournaments. Can they switch back and forth between them with complete confidence they'll play exactly the same, or do most of them have a favorite shaft they prefer over the others, even though the others are identical? If so, do you think this is a mental thing, or is there any chance they may actually play differently - most importantly deflect differently?

Second question - in the case of identical high end low deflection shafts from the same company, same model and same tip, the only difference being once is a standard 29-inch model, and the other is a 1-inch extra long 30-inch model. Will these two shafts deflect absolutely identical on all shots with different amounts of spin applied, or will the 1-inch extra length cause the longer shaft to deflect slightly differently than the standard length shaft - either more or less? If so, I assume it could as a result make enough of a difference on a tight pocket table, between making and missing a shot, when loaded up with spin.

The reason I'm asking - in our room, we have a 9-foot and 10-foot table I do most of my playing/practicing on. As I'm 6'4", on the 9-foot table I use a 60" cue - standard butt and shaft with a 2-inch butt extension attached. On the 10-foot table I'm thinking of using a 30" shaft with the standard butt and 2-inch extension - 61" total length cue. However, I don't want to do this if the two shafts may deflect at all differently - which would require me to make adjustments whenever I switch from one shaft on one table to another 1-inch longer shaft on the other table. Knowledgeable opinions welcomed please?
 
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Andrew Manning

Aspiring know-it-all
Silver Member
First question - will all 3 identical shafts deflect the cue ball virtually the exact same to the extent that it would be impossible to measure any difference, even on a shot loaded up with maximum spin?

That depends on how accurate your method of measuring is. I suspect the manufacturing tolerances among the top brands are tight enough that you'd be hard-pressed to detect a difference.

A human playing with each and perceiving a difference is another question. Human perception is not reliable. Superstitious belief that one shaft plays better is perfectly likely to occur. Whether or not it's true is almost irrelevant if it affects the player's performance.

Second question - in the case of identical high end low deflection shafts from the same company, same model and same tip, the only difference being once is a standard 29-inch model, and the other is a 1-inch extra long 30-inch model. Will these two shafts deflect absolutely identical on all shots with different amounts of spin applied, or will the 1-inch extra length cause the longer shaft to deflect slightly differently than the standard length shaft - either more or less?

The tip end of each shaft should be identical and thus the deflection should be identical. Applying the same tapering and tip-end-treatment to 2 dowels of different lengths (which I'm sure is what they do) should produce the same deflection characteristics.
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is a 2 part question that likely may have been addressed here before, but if so, I think it's been a while. I have 3 identical high end low deflection shafts from the same company and same exact model, same exact tip, all purchased within 6 months of each other.

First question - will all 3 identical shafts deflect the cue ball virtually the exact same to the extent that it would be impossible to measure any difference, even on a shot loaded up with maximum spin? I guess one way to answer this question - I assume pro players have 2-3 absolutely identical shafts/tips that they keep with them at all times at tournaments. Can they switch back and forth between them with complete confidence they'll play exactly the same, or do most of them have a favorite shaft they prefer over the others, even though the others are identical? If so, do you think this is a mental thing, or is there any chance they may actually play differently - most importantly deflect differently?

********** my answer would same as above poster.


Second question - in the case of identical high end low deflection shafts from the same company, same model and same tip, the only difference being once is a standard 29-inch model, and the other is a 1-inch extra long 30-inch model. Will these two shafts deflect absolutely identical on all shots with different amounts of spin applied, or will the 1-inch extra length cause the longer shaft to deflect slightly differently than the standard length shaft - either more or less? If so, I assume it could as a result make enough of a difference on a tight pocket table, between making and missing a shot, when loaded up with spin.

********* answer #2..... in my experience, when you add length to the front of the shaft it causes more deflection. On the other hand, if the length is added to the joint end it shouldn't change deflection although, it will change the balance/feel the most unless measures are taken to keep shaft characteristics the same.


The reason I'm asking - in our room, we have a 9-foot and 10-foot table I do most of my playing/practicing on. As I'm 6'4", on the 9-foot table I use a 60" cue - standard butt and shaft with a 2-inch butt extension attached. On the 10-foot table I'm thinking of using a 30" shaft with the standard butt and 2-inch extension - 61" total length cue. However, I don't want to do this if the two shafts may deflect at all differently - which would require me to make adjustments whenever I switch from one shaft / and one table to another. Knowledgeable opinions welcomed please?

In the end, as you know.... the only way your gonna know for 100% certain is to go to the table and find out.
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And I would say that isn't actually that reliable either.

We need a robot. And flying cars.

And cheaper beer.

^^^^^^^^ only George Jetson can answer the OP's ????'s.

The cheaper beer part is good but cheaper whiskey would be better to me....
 

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
side english makes the cue ball not go straight to where i am looking

not only that it gets worse sometimes
then when i decide to shoot to allow for it,it goes straight

so i prefer a thick taper shaft that goes straight to where i am aiming

then i quit using side english altogether

of course it limits my creativity,but i end up at least having a good idea what is expected

all of the talk on these threads about plastic shafts, no deflection,throw,and complicated stuff
like that confuses me,ruins my confidence
and makes me feel stupid

the result ...i lose confidence and get too afraid to bet on a game of pool

this either saves me money or cost me money,either way its no fun

i remember when i would match up and play anybody with money,
now i am afraid i need to adjust for throw,or deflection,or both and the truth is
i never heard of these things till lately
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
no two the same

I am not expert with all of the new wonder shafts but I have turned a few shafts and was involved with carbon fiber once upon a time.

The lay up should be pretty close to identical dealing with carbon fiber. The batch of resin, not so much so, the cure, subject to manufacturing variances. There is another issue, unless someone is manufacturing these blanks with quality control focused on the characteristics of pool cues, the manufacturer may not even be testing for the things that concern a pool player.

If you are talking about wood splice shafts, you have the basic issues with glues and adhesives plus spliced shafts came to be to use up shaft blanks that were too poor to turn as one piece shafts. Aside from wood quality questions, years ago the manufacturers had issues with radial consistency. This was found with broken shafts and I think at least some destructive testing. Are these issues completely behind the major players? I don't know. They aren't going to admit QC issues if they exist.

As has already been said, you will ultimately have to do your own testing but if I were gambling I would bet that in six months time after having three near identical shafts made you will be playing with one and two will be gathering dust.

Hu
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
As I'm 6'4", on the 9-foot table I use a 60" cue - standard butt and shaft with a 2-inch butt extension attached. On the 10-foot table I'm thinking of using a 30" shaft with the standard butt and 2-inch extension - 61" total length cue. However, I don't want to do this if the two shafts may deflect at all differently - which would require me to make adjustments whenever I switch from one shaft on one table to another 1-inch longer shaft on the other table. Knowledgeable opinions welcomed please?
Does your extension come off easily? How about just exchanging for a longer extension with the existing shaft when you're playing on the 10 footer?

pj
chgo
 

jackpot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Stop it,stop it right now

When you played more you played center ball, and were confident
you would play your speed,no matter who you played. It didn't matter,
If you were supposed to win you won, you only lost when you matched
up bad. Now you get a dozen cues a week, that all play different.Years
ago we had Balabushka's,Szamboti's, or Joss,all steal joint ivory ferrules.
They all played pretty much the same. You played mostly one pocket and
center ball worked fine.Another thing our old buddy Billy Stroud has always
played center ball and was and still is a tremendous player at all games on
every kind of table, snooker included. So my advice is, stick with one cue,go
back to center ball, send all the cues directly to me unopened (so you don't
start hitting balls and getting out of stroke).a grand-master cue evaluater.You
can then add my unequaled playing characteristic evaluation to your already
flowery sales pitch, which will undoubtedly make for even better sales.
jack
 

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does Jack make sense to you guys?

My wife says Jack just like to play for free and i am easy.

Of course she never saw Jack play.
If he was 120lbs and 16 years old,I would bet he had the prettiest pool stroke
in the world

I would bar Keith from this bet,but anyone else could never look as good

Keith might have looked better,or maybe it was his don't give a darn attitude

Anyway I need to pack some cues for Jack ,so good night
 

I Got Lucky

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And of course, each tip will have to be shaped EXACTLY 100% the same and the hit on the cueball must be in the EXACT same spot each time for the tests to mean anything.
 

cscott67

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Short answer, NO!

They will NOT play the same. The equal length shafts will play similar, but NOT the same. The different length shafts will definately play different because one will have more mass/weight being longer.

Wood has too many variables. I know a very well known cue maker that ALWAYS makes 2 high-end cues exactly the same. He KNOWS one will play better because of the differences in the wood even though the construction and tolerances are exactly the same. Shafts are no different.

The poster that suggested switching out the extension on the bigger table is on the money. Doc
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And of course, each tip will have to be shaped EXACTLY 100% the same and the hit on the cueball must be in the EXACT same spot each time for the tests to mean anything.
So you're saying that tips that are shaped just slightly differently can by itself cause different amounts of deflection on the exact same identical shafts?
 

I Got Lucky

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So you're saying that tips that are shaped just slightly differently can by itself cause different amounts of deflection on the exact same identical shafts?
Well i would think if the tips are not shaped the same the ball wont go in the exact same direction. Not sure if its deflection or because if different shaped/angled tips.
 

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have had the same shaft act different on the same shots back to back

I also waswith Jack and he wanted to show me about delection so
he said hit a bunch of inside on this shot

I made it,he tried again ,I made about 6 shots in a row with extreme inside

Jack said"I guess with your stroke ,you never know what is going to happen"

You think I am joking,but I'm not
 

Franky4Eyes

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No shafts can be identical.
The deflection may seem similar, but none are the exact same.
I will tell you that playing with the extension on the butt will cause the cue to play differently than normal.
If you have a longer taper you'll find the shaft plays a bit more whippy.
I have a friend who is also 6'4" and he shoots with a custom 67" Pechauer erector set consisting of the cue with a mid extension at the joint, and an extension on the butt. He had to learn to play with his contraption, but he shoots the lights out with it now!
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No shafts can be identical.
The deflection may seem similar, but none are the exact same.
I will tell you that playing with the extension on the butt will cause the cue to play differently than normal.
If you have a longer taper you'll find the shaft plays a bit more whippy.
I have a friend who is also 6'4" and he shoots with a custom 67" Pechauer erector set consisting of the cue with a mid extension at the joint, and an extension on the butt. He had to learn to play with his contraption, but he shoots the lights out with it now!

I use a rather long cue as well eventhough I'm not that tall. Matter of fact, I'm less than 6 feet tall.

I use to use a mid cue and butt extension until I had a couple custom butt extensions made. At that time I said bye bye to the mid cue extension and don't regret it one bit.

Your observation is correct about it being a contraption. Till this day, I don't know what I was thinking trying to actually improve while using such a setup.

Like your friend, some can do well with such cues. I'm not one of them.
 

Coop1701

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No shafts can be identical.
The deflection may seem similar, but none are the exact same.
I will tell you that playing with the extension on the butt will cause the cue to play differently than normal.
If you have a longer taper you'll find the shaft plays a bit more whippy.
I have a friend who is also 6'4" and he shoots with a custom 67" Pechauer erector set consisting of the cue with a mid extension at the joint, and an extension on the butt. He had to learn to play with his contraption, but he shoots the lights out with it now!

I totally agree with this for several reasons. No shaft, not even Carbon Fiber will be identical. They will be close. But never the same.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
I do this, Chris. I have three shafts from Tiger, all with different joints to fit my three favorite cues (Schuler, Tasc, Gilbert). They all squirt so close to each other (good amount of squirt at ~9” pivot point) that I don’t have any significant adjustment period ( like none).

I put the same tip on each. I also wear a glove, so any surface differences are masked.




Freddie <~~~ YMMV
 
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