Unbelievable Pool Memorabilia Collection Captured on Video

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When I stand back and see this, I just see a perfect apology fo pocket billiards as a whole.

Here you have an entire link to some of the most valuable pieces of pool lore and history all in one room, so fragile and so vulnerable to being lost to the world. Is the proper curator looking after them? In case of switching hands, will they go as one collection and to a safe place with fire suppressing protection and safety monitoring? Will there be humidity control and prevention from flood and water damage? Will anyone care?

Kind of like the last great pool tournament you attend...will anyone video capture that battle of titans off to the side of the streaming table that has the room on edge or will it be lost to time and a whatever-shake of the head I-remember-when-type of story that dies after a generation. Will anyone care?

It’s all so fragile and on the edge of disappearing forever. Kind of like pool in of itself.

Will that 526 Mosconi Balabushka be lost to the world and reduced to an I-once-held-type of story by a few dozen people? The cue cases? The signatures. And the tragic truth is that there are a host of collections just like this one around the pool world.

If I go to the Springfield, Massachusetts and visit the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame, I can see Michael Jordan’s shoes or Larry Bird’s jersey on display for the world—surely shouldn’t Efren’s green jacket get the same treatment and held aloft by the pool world other than hanging on rack of other dusty fall of fame worthy jackets?

I had a very profound moment down in Rhode Island, when I first had a chance to visit Snookers to watch a Joss tournament and SJM (Stu) took the time and walked around the walls of the New England Pool and Billiards Hall of Fame and gave me a tutorial and history of every picture and moment that was enshrined on those walls.

Players I surely never would have known of, heard of, or even paid any attention to ( many who had long passed away) were introduced to me that night—it was the true beauty of such a small little place in the pool world in its ability to educate and pass on the memory of those who spent a lifetime excelling in this game we all love.

I’ll never forget that.

It’s too bad the vultures don’t fly a bit higher and see the bigger picture in a room like that. There’s more of a duty and responsibility to those with the means to lift that little space in the world higher than just a pick and pull until the carcass is dry and gone event.

Oh well, it’s 2:38 AM and I’m feeling a little morose. Thanks for letting me vent. We have a great game in pool with a great history and we are losing it slowly....one collector at time.

Well the real truth is that if it were not for the evil collectors in the world , a huge portion of this collection and all of the others would be gone
This guys dad travelled all over the country for years to meet the owners and buy these items, when no one else wanted them, except to turn around and flip for a few bucks.
It's easy to want to hop on the wagon now, and think they should offer this stuff up to the masses for nothing, but they spent real dollars buying it and have the right to do anything they want with it.
I have a billiard collection that took 30 years to accumulate and probably spent 30 or 40 hours a week for 20 years to find and buy with my own hard earned dollars , At one time another huge collector and I talked about opening a Museum, the truth of the matter is , even if it was free 99% of you would never come.
So that means , we the filthy collectors, most people called us idiots until some of it became valuable, should spend our money and more importantly , our time , finding these items , and then build a place so you can come and wax philosophical, about things you have no clue about.

I never met you, but I feel I have met you a thousand times, your a quintuple sharp guy, that never gets off his feet, except to get into bed.
How's that for morose?
If I'm all wrong about you , and you truly are passionate about saving the history ,like me, and almost every collector I ever met, then get in touch with me
. You can be the new caregiver of everything I spent 30 years collecting, for 50 cents on the dollar.
 

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well the real truth is that if it were not for the evil collectors in the world , a huge portion of this collection and all of the others would be gone
This guys dad travelled all over the country for years to meet the owners and buy these items, when no one else wanted them, except to turn around and flip for a few bucks.
It's easy to want to hop on the wagon now, and think they should offer this stuff up to the masses for nothing, but they spent real dollars buying it and have the right to do anything they want with it.
I have a billiard collection that took 30 years to accumulate and probably spent 30 or 40 hours a week for 20 years to find and buy with my own hard earned dollars , At one time another huge collector and I talked about opening a Museum, the truth of the matter is , even if it was free 99% of you would never come.
So that means , we the filthy collectors, most people called us idiots until some of it became valuable, should spend our money and more importantly , our time , finding these items , and then build a place so you can come and wax philosophical, about things you have no clue about.

I never met you, but I feel I have met you a thousand times, your a quintuple sharp guy, that never gets off his feet, except to get into bed.
How's that for morose?
If I'm all wrong about you , and you truly are passionate about saving the history ,like me, and almost every collector I ever met, then get in touch with me
. You can be the new caregiver of everything I spent 30 years collecting, for 50 cents on the dollar.

Seems you got me wrong friend, you also missed the entire point of my post about hall of fames and what it does to preserve history. Ever been to the New England Pool Hall of Fame? It’s really just a side room to Snookers in Providence, Rhode Island, but the fact that it is a concrete place of history that is maintained and preserved is what makes it special.

Every year, the BCA elects new members to a hall of fame which doesn’t exist except for on paper and internet websites. Do you think that’s a nice status quo for the game you are obviously passionate about?

I never called you a vulture, and I think you know what a vulture is in terms of what was mentioned before.
Truth is, there are hall of fames for many different careers, games, hobbies, etc...and lots of stuff in them is still owned by families and collectors world wide. The Norman Rockwell museum comes to mind....great paintings on display, owned by someone who wanted others to enjoy them as well, so they take turns in rotation and on display for the Rockwell fans in the world.

An original Norman Rockwell is extremely valuable....yet those collectors can find the time to get together and contribute to a museum.
if you are as passionate about pool as you seem and proud of your collection, get together with other collectors, and start a museum. The pool players of history deserve it.

But yes, you did all the work and spent all the money to acquire that collection. Well done.
 

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think the Glenn family will take very good care of that valuable and important billiard collection. Denny has long been seeking a proper location for a billiard museum, if anyone has a line on a good location. I would be willing to contribute to the purchase of a good space for such a museum and I'm sure others would as well.

Thanks for updating here. This is good to know.

Also, I would contribute as well...if there was an addition to Griff’s (hint hint :wink:)...that maybe needed some funding to eventually become an actual hall of fame. Wouldn’t that be a hot destination to travel to...shoot some pool and see some history.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
I would consider fats home with Ev in Dowell a perfect place for a museum. Here in Colorado, the Manassa Mauler/pro boxer from the early 1900's has a museum in that town, in the middle of NO WHERE, literally.

Personally I think the BCA should buy the property and setup shop in this home, with a museum (steady/income). There's plenty of parking at this location also. Fats' is as famous as Babe Ruth, making his home in Dowell a museum may be what is needed, instead of memories being shelved or thrown away or just forgotten.
 

KAP1976

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
It needs to be in a place that pool players frequent so they can combine trips. For example, put it near Philadelphia so people can do the Expo and see the museum as well. Or Louisville for DCC. Partnering with the BCA to add a true Hall of Fame may work as well.
 

Positively Ralf

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
not wanting to be a negative Nancy/Debbie downer, but besides the obvious few exceptions, I got the impression from that video that there is a lot of unnecessary bulk there.

The frames are beautiful and I bet there are a hell of a lot more valuable in those than the majority of the cues there.

But that's just me and my view on it. Regardless, that's an amazing collection.
 

Ghosst

Broom Handle Mafia
Silver Member
the chicago billiard museum site was sweet....but now all that great info is lost.....

The site may be gone but surely there's an archive of it somewhere. The FB page was still up last time I checked and I do wonder what happened to all of the items he had collected.

As for a pool & billiards museum I would have say that Vegas would be the best option. It's central to most everyone geographically, flights are cheap, and it's the current home to the US Opens and of course the Mosconi Cup.
 

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
not wanting to be a negative Nancy/Debbie downer, but besides the obvious few exceptions, I got the impression from that video that there is a lot of unnecessary bulk there.

The frames are beautiful and I bet there are a hell of a lot more valuable in those than the majority of the cues there.

But that's just me and my view on it. Regardless, that's an amazing collection.

If you want to give me a number , we can probably make a bet.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was fortunate enough to be given a private tour thanks to Al Moreno, Frank "Da Barber" Almanza and of course Denny Glenn. Denny is a true gentleman and the collection is astonishing. And you're right Joey, the Kling and matching cue rack are perfectly restored to as new condition and not "over restored". Denny uncovered each of the 8 or 9 tables and went over cues with us one by one. His knowledge is second to none. One of the tables was Willie Hoppe's personal 10' Centennial carom table with one of Hoppe's personal cues. For me, the highlight was getting to hold the Rambow (not Balabushka) Mosconi ran the 526 with. Amazing.

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jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I was fortunate enough to be given a private tour thanks to Al Moreno, Frank "Da Barber" Almanza and of course Denny Glenn. Denny is a true gentleman and the collection is astonishing. And you're right Joey, the Kling and matching cue rack are perfectly restored to as new condition and not "over restored". Denny uncovered each of the 8 or 9 tables and went over cues with us one by one. His knowledge is second to none. One of the tables was Willie Hoppe's personal 10' Centennial carom table with one of Hoppe's personal cues. For me, the highlight was getting to hold the Rambow (not Balabushka) Mosconi ran the 526 with. Amazing.

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Looking good dude! I'd just like to see all the pictures. I can probably tell you a story about every one of them. I seriously doubt there's even one photo that I can't identify the player. If they could play, I saw them all during the last half century! :thumbup:
 

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Looking good dude! I'd just like to see all the pictures. I can probably tell you a story about every one of them. I seriously doubt there's even one photo that I can't identify the player. If they could play, I saw them all during the last half century! :thumbup:

What's your favorite story about Boston Shorty, Jay?
He's one of my favorite players of that era--even though I never saw him play, the photos and stories of him in action are great.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Looking good dude! I'd just like to see all the pictures. I can probably tell you a story about every one of them. I seriously doubt there's even one photo that I can't identify the player. If they could play, I saw them all during the last half century! :thumbup:

Thanks, Jay.

I didn't go overboard on the pics; didn't take many at all as I didn't want to overstay my welcome, so to speak. Al and Frank brought me along and I didn't want to be "that" guy.

It would have been awesome if you were there as well to get double the stories. Denny, as you know, is very knowledgable.
 

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I love looking at these cues

Dennis is a close friend of mine and offered me an opportunity
to buy one of those beautiful Centennial Tables

I already have one but if one of you guys want something special

contact me and I will put you intouch with denny

the tables were not part of the collection,but they are used to show the collection

Fact is some of them belonged to great famous players or were the table
where the greats played big time pool

Dean
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Amazing collection. I wonder what he used to write on the cues. I'm guessing something that is easy to remove.
 

michael4

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I love your post.
To be honest, all of us here are helping in some way, the true collectors such as you of course, but even the casual enthusiast helps keep pool history alive by admiring what you have done.

Many thanks to those that keep pool alive due to their love of the game. :thumbup:

………..
So that means , we the filthy collectors, most people called us idiots until some of it became valuable, should spend our money and more importantly , our time , finding these items , and then build a place so you can come and wax philosophical, about things you have no clue about.

……...
 

Baby Huey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A Pool/Billiards Museum would be a great feat for our sport. But, it would take organization, money, dedication and a benefactor. How to do this? Jay Helfert our well respected colleague could be the key to this happening. He knows all the players both past and present and he may well know where the historical collections exist. To give credibility to a serious exhibit and permanent location will require that specific knowledge base and key individuals who could lend credence to such an endeavor. I have a collection myself and would be willing to donate it to such and effort. The key to such an effort might be Brunswick Billiards if any part of that company still exists and would be willing to help.
 

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A Pool/Billiards Museum would be a great feat for our sport. But, it would take organization, money, dedication and a benefactor. How to do this? Jay Helfert our well respected colleague could be the key to this happening. He knows all the players both past and present and he may well know where the historical collections exist. To give credibility to a serious exhibit and permanent location will require that specific knowledge base and key individuals who could lend credence to such an endeavor. I have a collection myself and would be willing to donate it to such and effort. The key to such an effort might be Brunswick Billiards if any part of that company still exists and would be willing to help.

Brunswick, would not give you the correct time of day, from my experiences with them.

I would be interested in putting my collection in a place with other collections also .
But, the only way I would do it, is if a group of say 10 respected individuals in the pool community, were in charge {and responsible} for the collection.
Each piece would still belong to the original owner and named heirs in order.
If the heir wanted his pieces , he would have to submit a claim and the organisation would have 1 year to decide if they wanted to buy the pieces at fair market value or return them. Of course , if you decide to just give your collection to the organisation , you would make your own arrangements.
Otherwise, eventually someone greedy or needing money will be put in charge of the collections, and will start selling the stuff off ,and again there will be no museum.
All of us are getting old, I hope we can actually do something ,instead of just talk about it.
I actually believe we should put the first one centralized and have a long term goal of 4 or 5 across the country. That way you won't have to travel 2000 miles to see one but if you take trips , there will be one close enough for most to visit if they truly desire.
Of course , to begin with we need 1 .
 
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deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know one thing
Two of the greatest players of my generation,Ronnie Allen and Jersey Red
got a bit moist eyed when they talked about Denny.When they hit hard times,
and hard times they hit,when the action was scarse and their futures were behind them,when the glad handed groupie
wannabes and friends who loved the glamour disappeared Dennis Glenn was there with words of encouragement
. financial support, and even work for them.

No wonder that they wanted their memory preserved and no wonder they contributed their precious trophies,cues,pictures.

i hope some large corporation like Budweiser,Camel, or some great casino takes the bull by the horn and buys this collection
and opens a hall of fame shrine for pool that we can all enjoy..

Can you imagine taking your family tosee these things,even touching them, and hearing stories.
yes junior,their were giants in those days,men who traveled the nation heroes of a sport


these are their pictures, here is Ronnie's cue,look at Mosconi's cues ,look at the tables they played on,
I knew these guys,seems like yesterday
 
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jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
What's your favorite story about Boston Shorty, Jay?
He's one of my favorite players of that era--even though I never saw him play, the photos and stories of him in action are great.

I have a few, some of which are X Rated and do not belong on here. One of my favorite Shorty stories took place at the BCA Nationals maybe 20 years ago. Someone brought Shorty to play in the Senior's division. He had never played in a so called "amateur" event before and not everybody knew Shorty from the past, especially out West.

So I wander in and see Shorty practicing on a bar table and said hello to him. I had never ever seen him play bar table pool so I was curious what he thought about it, so I asked him. He gave me a sideways glance and cracked, "These tables are a joke. How can you ever miss a ball on them?" I smiled as I realized he was used to playing on a lot tougher equipment.

In comes King Kong, at that time one of the best bar table players on the West Coast. A real money game killer. He stops and watches this little bald headed guy run a couple of racks and I can tell he's curious who he is. Kong being Kong pipes up, "You play pretty good sir. Would you like to play for some money?" Shorty stops and eyes Kong over, like who TF are you talking to me that way. Little does Kong know that he's f'ck'g with a guy who has played and beaten the best players in the world for money, many many times!

After a moment or two Shorty responds, "What did you have in mind?" Shorty is not one to miss out on an opportunity to make some extra money. Kong says, "How about we play six ahead 9-Ball for $300?" That's a pretty hefty bet and I think Kong wants to see if this guy has any gamble. Shorty doesn't take long in responding though, "Sure, why not." He doesn't try to negotiate in any way with Kong, simply accepts his bet. Kong looks happy, like he's found a mark.

They post the money with me ($600) and off they go. I won't go into all the details, mainly because I don't remember all of them. But what I do remember is that Shorty bombed King Kong for several sets at 300 a pop in less than two hours. He must have run six racks on him a couple of times and several fours and fives. It was a complete blow out and Kong never knew what hit him. After it was all over and he had been emptied out by the little bald guy, Kong looked at me with an exasperated look on his face, "Who is this old man!" I couldn't help but laugh, but I didn't tell him he had just played the infamous Boston Shorty, a killer of killers.

Another time I'll tell you the story about the time the great Steve Mizerak took a road trip to Boston and got into a cab driven by Shorty and asked him where he could find a pool game. Big mistake by Steve! :wink:
 
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