New 9' Diamond For Home...

Korsakoff

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Don't want to highjack Jonbouy's thread, but I have a similar question. So, I think I should just begin a new thread.

We are rebuilding from a flood, and we will have a pool table in the Gameroom. It's roughly 22' x 28', so plenty of room.

I played on 9' Gold Crowns until the early 90s, at which time I chose to go the corporate route for financial reasons. Loved those tables, but work demands eventually took me away from the game.

Everything now seems to be Diamond. I've been reading this forum for about a month and looking on the Internet, and it seems that Diamond may now have the edge. I like the look of the Diamond Professional and Paragon better than the Gold Crown. I guess I'd go Diamond Professional in Rosewood or the Paragon in Rosewood - just not crazy about the Paragon legs. Do the tables play the same?

Finally, I'll never play at a pro level for a variety of reasons, the main one being lack of talent. So, what is the general consensus regarding corner and side pocket sizes? Not interested in something too difficult for neighbors or the wife, but something that will challenge me once I get back in stroke. It seems 4.5" corner pockets are discussed here a lot. What were the pocket sizes typically seen on the Gold Crowns in poolrooms in the 1980s?

Any thoughts related to this subject are appreciated. It will be my first and last home table. Budget is pretty flexible. $20K probably max; $10K even better.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Most pool hall pockets were 5", but I would not worry too much about having smaller ones, if you don't tell people, it won't matter. Almost every pool hall I play in has a few tighter tables that get given out to casual players, and I have never heard anyone say "I missed because the pockets are tight".

Funny story, there is a snooker table next to one of the pool tables, and the pool table was used for 9 ball during a tournament. The table was given out to someone to use, the two guys on the table must have noticed half the balls missing, and took the remaining striped balls from the snooker table (which had a normal pool ball set but in snooker size). When I went to get the snooker balls I noticed half were missing and soon enough found them being used on the pool table. The players there must have played a dozen or more games of 8 ball and never noticed that half the balls they were using were smaller by quite a bit than the others.

In other words, if something this obvious goes unnoticed, a bit smaller pocket won't either.
 

spktur

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If I were in your position I would talk to Mark Gregory about one of these. This is the best looking table ever built and after he restores and updates it it plays like a new diamond. There is no better route.
 

Type79

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would start considering table characteristics and budget. Diamonds and Gold Crowns play differently. Also, a Gold Crown properly installed will cost less than a Diamond.

Either way you're on the right track and I would second Mark Gregory for rail work.
 

Korsakoff

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thank you for the thoughtful replies so for.

spktur, was there a picture or a link that went with your reply?

I’ll Google Mark Gregory.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Don't want to highjack Jonbouy's thread, but I have a similar question. So, I think I should just begin a new thread.

We are rebuilding from a flood, and we will have a pool table in the Gameroom. It's roughly 22' x 28', so plenty of room.

I played on 9' Gold Crowns until the early 90s, at which time I chose to go the corporate route for financial reasons. Loved those tables, but work demands eventually took me away from the game.

Everything now seems to be Diamond. I've been reading this forum for about a month and looking on the Internet, and it seems that Diamond may now have the edge. I like the look of the Diamond Professional and Paragon better than the Gold Crown. I guess I'd go Diamond Professional in Rosewood or the Paragon in Rosewood - just not crazy about the Paragon legs. Do the tables play the same?

Finally, I'll never play at a pro level for a variety of reasons, the main one being lack of talent. So, what is the general consensus regarding corner and side pocket sizes? Not interested in something too difficult for neighbors or the wife, but something that will challenge me once I get back in stroke. It seems 4.5" corner pockets are discussed here a lot. What were the pocket sizes typically seen on the Gold Crowns in poolrooms in the 1980s?

Any thoughts related to this subject are appreciated. It will be my first and last home table. Budget is pretty flexible. $20K probably max; $10K even better.
Standard GC pockets were 4.75" corners and 5.25" sides. The tournament version has/had 4.5" corners and 5" sides. Pro-cut Diamonds are 4.5 and 5.
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Don't want to highjack Jonbouy's thread, but I have a similar question. So, I think I should just begin a new thread.

We are rebuilding from a flood, and we will have a pool table in the Gameroom. It's roughly 22' x 28', so plenty of room.

I played on 9' Gold Crowns until the early 90s, at which time I chose to go the corporate route for financial reasons. Loved those tables, but work demands eventually took me away from the game.

Everything now seems to be Diamond. I've been reading this forum for about a month and looking on the Internet, and it seems that Diamond may now have the edge. I like the look of the Diamond Professional and Paragon better than the Gold Crown. I guess I'd go Diamond Professional in Rosewood or the Paragon in Rosewood - just not crazy about the Paragon legs. Do the tables play the same?

Finally, I'll never play at a pro level for a variety of reasons, the main one being lack of talent. So, what is the general consensus regarding corner and side pocket sizes? Not interested in something too difficult for neighbors or the wife, but something that will challenge me once I get back in stroke. It seems 4.5" corner pockets are discussed here a lot. What were the pocket sizes typically seen on the Gold Crowns in poolrooms in the 1980s?

Any thoughts related to this subject are appreciated. It will be my first and last home table. Budget is pretty flexible. $20K probably max; $10K even better.

Diamonds vs. Goldcrowns are apples to oranges.

Like you I had to make a decision on what brand table for my home. What I did was:

Play on as many "different" brands and sizes tables as I could. Not just a day or two, but for several weeks.

After deciding what "I" liked to play on, I bought "that" table. Unless you are worried about resale value, budget (your 10k to 20k is more than fine) or another variable, buy what you like and want........period.

As for pocket size, well, the opening of a pocket is not all that matters. The shelf of the diamond in itself makes it harder to pocket a ball. Like I said: go play and see.

As for my advice (opinion), well, "diamond all the way". Why:

1. Diamond 100% stands behind everything they sale. Very good people/company.
2. I love the way the diamonds play.
3. I love the way the pro-am looks.
4. the diamond pro-am is built like a tank and has a very good resale value.
5. Every room I go to is full of 9' and 7' diamond pro-am.
6. As long as they are "maintained" and are all the same lable (model), all diamonds play extremely close from table to table.

I could go on and on but the bottom line does not change no matter how much I like "x" brand, size or what ever table. It is what "you" like that matters.

Again, your budget is fine so, go out and play on as many tables as you can and make the decision based on what you want from a players perspective. Cannot go wrong there guaranteed.

Rake
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thank you for the thoughtful replies so for.
spktur, was there a picture or a link that went with your reply?
I’ll Google Mark Gregory.
You cannot go wrong with Mark Gregory.
In my opinion, he is the all time non-stop BOSS of pool table work. (and I work on tables myself...albeit the el cheapo kind).
Mark used to be a very, very, good player too.
Happy trails to you....:thumbup:
 

arcstats

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've owned a Diamond Pro-Am for over 4 years. If your decision comes down to this table or the Diamond Paragon, I would take the Pro-Am if for no other reason, this:

The external corners of the Paragon are cut at 90 degrees, where the Pro-Am have a 45 degree config to soften the corner. This will save on the wear and tear of your thighs, and other vital body parts.

If you go with the Diamond light, make sure it comes with the 4' LED bulbs. I recently converted my Diamond light, and what a significant difference this makes.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A few comments:

1. Diamond has the Pro/Am, the Professional, and the Paragon, in the commercial space. They all play exactly the same, as the under-the-hood stuff is the same on all 3. 99% of the Diamonds you will see are the Pro/Am. Make sure you see pictures of both the Pro/Am and the Professional, because aesthetically, they are completely different.

2. The Professional can be ordered with rounded corners, or 45 deg corners. Both give a different look.

3. The Professional can be ordered with 2 different leg types. Both give a different look.

4. All of the tables can be ordered with or without the big Diamond logo engraved into the end.

5. The main difference in play between a GC and a Diamond, is how the balls react off of the rails, and how the pockets accept the ball. You will have to find a Diamond for yourself to see if you like these two characteristics more/less than a GC.

6. The shelf on a Diamond is much deeper than a GC. So, a 4.5" pocket on a Diamond plays much tougher than a 4.5" pocket on a GC.

7. Diamond tables can all be ordered in 3 different pocket sizes. "Pro-Cut" is their standard pocket at 4.5". This is what all of the tournaments are played on. "League Cut" is bigger at about 5.0" and is a special order. They also have a tighter cut, I forget the exact name, usually ordered by one pocket players. Its about 4 3/8" if memory serves me.

8. GC tables from the factory measure 5.0" at the corner pockets. If you were in a "player's" room in the 80s, the owner may have had shims added to some or all of the tables. A "double shim" GC, common for 9 ball gambling, was about 4.75". A "triple shim" GC, common for 1 pocket gambling, was about 4.5".

Good luck and have fun.
 

logical

Loose Rack
Silver Member
With that budget, even $10,000 is enough to get a restored Gold Crown or Anniversary depending on the look you are going for...or a Diamond of any sort. No need to spend more than that on a good table.
 

haystj

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Buy a Brunswick for sentimental/nostalgic reasons.

Buy a Diamond if you want a super solid playing table. (there is a reason there are multiple examples of people saying: "He can make a GC play just like a Diamond"). Quick examples are the leather pocket trim vs Brunswick rubber, better ball return, superior leveling system.

I have a ProAm with the standard 4.5" pockets and it is great.

It plays difficult enough to satisfy any pool player I have had over (one pocket is what I mostly play).

The difficulty of the 4.5 pockets goes unnoticed by neighbors and the wife, but anything tighter would not be fun for an average enthusiast.

Great problem to have, deciding on what table to buy. Good Luck.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you want the best playing table you can get, which with your stated budget you obviously do, it would be hard to choose anything over a Diamond. If you ever need to sell it in the future, the Diamond will maintain it's resale value way better than any other new table.

Yes, the 4.5 inch corner pocket openings and 5-inch side pocket openings on Diamonds are certainly tighter than standard Brunswick Gold Crown tables by 1/2 inch, but not so tight that you can't enjoy playing.

Also, if you purchase a Diamond, you can buy directly through Diamond, you can order and get the exact size, model and stain color you desire, and you can get Diamond's professional delivery / installation crew to deliver and set up your table - to insure it is done right so that it plays as absolutely as good as it's suppost to!
 
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franko

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Fwiw

For what it's worth I was in your situation in the late 90's. I had my mind set on getting a restored Brunswick Anniversary but kept hearing the Diamond buzz.

A group of us were making our annual pilgrimage to the US Open so I put my decision off until I got back home. In the 90's the Open was still played on GC IVs I decided to ask as many Pros as I could their opinion . 90% or better said Diamond in fact the only one I can remember who did not say Diamond was Nick Varner his reply was " No matter what table you pick they are all like snowflakes , no two tables play alike "

I came home and ordered a 9ft Diamond , the only thing I changed on it was in 2013 I had my red label converted by Diamond to a Blue label. I have never regretted or 2nd guessed going with Diamond.
 

Matt

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As a satisfied Diamond Professional owner, I have to agree with all the Diamond recommendations on here. Whether you go with the Professional, Pro-Am, or Paragon, you're getting a commercial-grade table at a reasonable price. I actually like the look of the Paragon legs, but the price jump from the professional was more than I could justify spending on aesthetics. Ultimately, I went with the Professional because I prefer drop pockets over a ball return, which is the main difference between the two (unless you order the Pro-Am with one piece slate, but I probably wouldn't for a home table). With your budget, you should be able to get a new Professional or Pro-Am custom built to any specs you would like, so I would recommend calling Diamond and talking through the options with them. I ended up going with cherry-stained maple with rounded corners, along with a matching chair set and cue rack, and love my setup.

edit: The pockets on my table are the "pro cut" (4.5" corners, 5" sides). Obviously, I'm biased, but I do think that Diamond has found a good compromise between playable and challenging with these pockets. If you hit the ball between the jaws of the pocket, it will go in, but you won't get away with skipping a ball off the near rail at any sort of speed. It's a good middle ground between the triple-shimmed setup some one pocket players prefer and the (relative) buckets that make 8-ball and straight pool more fun on "league cut" tables. As for non-pool players, I've never had anyone say anything about the pockets; my guess is that it's because they don't look as tough as they are (because of the deeper shelf) and because non-players don't really have much basis for comparison. As long as they are playing each other, they can have just as much fun beating balls into the rails no matter what the pocket size is. It's the players that are good enough to have an occasional break and run on a loose table that might initially get frustrated by the Diamond pockets, but even they will eventually get used to them and come out a better player for it.
 
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tucson9ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Don't want to highjack Jonbouy's thread, but I have a similar question. So, I think I should just begin a new thread.

We are rebuilding from a flood, and we will have a pool table in the Gameroom. It's roughly 22' x 28', so plenty of room.

I played on 9' Gold Crowns until the early 90s, at which time I chose to go the corporate route for financial reasons. Loved those tables, but work demands eventually took me away from the game.

Everything now seems to be Diamond. I've been reading this forum for about a month and looking on the Internet, and it seems that Diamond may now have the edge. I like the look of the Diamond Professional and Paragon better than the Gold Crown. I guess I'd go Diamond Professional in Rosewood or the Paragon in Rosewood - just not crazy about the Paragon legs. Do the tables play the same?

Finally, I'll never play at a pro level for a variety of reasons, the main one being lack of talent. So, what is the general consensus regarding corner and side pocket sizes? Not interested in something too difficult for neighbors or the wife, but something that will challenge me once I get back in stroke. It seems 4.5" corner pockets are discussed here a lot. What were the pocket sizes typically seen on the Gold Crowns in poolrooms in the 1980s?

Any thoughts related to this subject are appreciated. It will be my first and last home table. Budget is pretty flexible. $20K probably max; $10K even better.


I've been playing on Gold Crowns since the early 80's and now everything is on the Diamond Pro Ams. The biggest difference is that way back then the cloth was different. The rails were different also but mainly the speed of the cloth.
I'm not crazy about the look of the Pro Am, it seems like a giant bar box to me. The main draw for these tables is that it's easy to set up for tournaments. It rolls in one piece, flip it down and tighten/level and "voila", you're good to go. To me it looks like a big box, great for tournaments and pool halls but cosmetically it just doesn't grab me.
I bought a 9ft Diamond Pro for my home and love it. I decided to go with the Pro cut pockets (same price). The corner pockets are 4.5 inches. This size has become pretty much the standard in the industry now. The look of the Pro is much nicer to me. It takes much more for set-up but if it's for home use, it's perfect.
I've had it since 2007 and still love it. I have no plans of ever getting another table or moving for that matter. This one is here to stay.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As a satisfied Diamond Professional owner, I have to agree with all the Diamond recommendations on here. Whether you go with the Professional, Pro-Am, or Paragon, you're getting a commercial-grade table at a reasonable price. I actually like the look of the Paragon legs, but the price jump from the professional was more than I could justify spending on aesthetics. Ultimately, I went with the Professional because I prefer drop pockets over a ball return, which is the main difference between the two (unless you order the Pro-Am with one piece slate, but I probably wouldn't for a home table). With your budget, you should be able to get a new Professional or Pro-Am custom built to any specs you would like, so I would recommend calling Diamond and talking through the options with them. I ended up going with cherry-stained maple with rounded corners, along with a matching chair set and cue rack, and love my setup.

edit: The pockets on my table are the "pro cut" (4.5" corners, 5" sides). Obviously, I'm biased, but I do think that Diamond has found a good compromise between playable and challenging with these pockets. If you hit the ball between the jaws of the pocket, it will go in, but you won't get away with skipping a ball off the near rail at any sort of speed. It's a good middle ground between the triple-shimmed setup some one pocket players prefer and the (relative) buckets that make 8-ball and straight pool more fun on "league cut" tables. As for non-pool players, I've never had anyone say anything about the pockets; my guess is that it's because they don't look as tough as they are (because of the deeper shelf) and because non-players don't really have much basis for comparison. As long as they are playing each other, they can have just as much fun beating balls into the rails no matter what the pocket size is. It's the players that are good enough to have an occasional break and run on a loose table that might initially get frustrated by the Diamond pockets, but even they will eventually get used to them and come out a better player for it.
As far as a your reasonable price claim regarding a new Diamond, I don't know if I entirely agree with that - $5,500+ for a 7-footer and likely at least $1,500 more for each foot bigger than that. Many of us may not consider that reasonable, even for a commercial table.
 
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