Downgrading equipment to play better in the APA

California Fats · Jun 3, 2019

I have always taken pride in having Simonis cloth and Brunswick Centennial balls on my table.

I was noticing the more I practiced at home, the worse I would do in the league when I played on the slower cloth and friction-ridden billiard balls that plague bars.

2 months ago, I changed my felt to Championship Invitational (much slower) and purchased a set of basic poly-resin balls.

I did this all to more closely match the conditions of the bars we play in...

After 8 matches, it made all the difference in the world. I now feel a level of consistency between my table and the tables we play on for the league.

It was a hell of a sacrifice, but quitting the APA is not an option. It's my one night out a week, and it's something my father and I have been doing together for years.

Has anyone else done something similar, or did I just commit all kinds of blasphemy? :lol:

garczar · Jun 3, 2019

California Fats said:
I have always taken pride in having Simonis cloth and Brunswick Centennial balls on my table.

I was noticing the more I practiced at home, the worse I would do in the league when I played on the slower cloth and friction-ridden billiard balls that plague bars.

2 months ago, I changed my felt to Championship Invitational (much slower) and purchased a set of basic poly-resin balls.

I did this all to more closely match the conditions of the bars we play in...

After 8 matches, it made all the difference in the world. I now feel a level of consistency between my table and the tables we play on for the league.

It was a hell of a sacrifice, but quitting the APA is not an option. It's my one night out a week, and it's something my father and I have been doing together for years.

Has anyone else done something similar, or did I just commit all kinds of blasphemy? :lol:

Personally i'd rather have a root canal than play APA again but i gotta admire your dedication. If its what you like go for it.

RiverCity · Jun 3, 2019

California Fats said:
......or did I just commit all kinds of blasphemy?

gregnice37 · Jun 3, 2019

California Fats said:
I have always taken pride in having Simonis cloth and Brunswick Centennial balls on my table.

I was noticing the more I practiced at home, the worse I would do in the league when I played on the slower cloth and friction-ridden billiard balls that plague bars.

2 months ago, I changed my felt to Championship Invitational (much slower) and purchased a set of basic poly-resin balls.

I did this all to more closely match the conditions of the bars we play in...

After 8 matches, it made all the difference in the world. I now feel a level of consistency between my table and the tables we play on for the league.

It was a hell of a sacrifice, but quitting the APA is not an option. It's my one night out a week, and it's something my father and I have been doing together for years.

Has anyone else done something similar, or did I just commit all kinds of blasphemy? :lol:

We went the other way. My league is in house and we only have 4 teams. We do 50/50 Raffles and the 50% we keep we buy Simonis cloth for the tables every year and we buy sets of balls when needed. At the moment we are using the Cyclop Hyperion balls. We don't leave the balls there obviously, they get changed into play just for league and tourney night.

Low500 · Jun 3, 2019

Good for you

California Fats said:
I have always taken pride in having Simonis cloth and Brunswick Centennial balls on my table.
I was noticing the more I practiced at home, the worse I would do in the league when I played on the slower cloth and friction-ridden billiard balls that plague bars.
2 months ago, I changed my felt to Championship Invitational (much slower) and purchased a set of basic poly-resin balls.
I did this all to more closely match the conditions of the bars we play in...
After 8 matches, it made all the difference in the world. I now feel a level of consistency between my table and the tables we play on for the league.
It was a hell of a sacrifice, but quitting the APA is not an option. It's my one night out a week, and it's something my father and I have been doing together for years.
Has anyone else done something similar, or did I just commit all kinds of blasphemy? :lol:

You've demonstrated an individuality that is lacking in most people today.....I think that is good.
You set a goal and did as much as you could do to reach that goal. (most pool players don't even know what a goal is and furthermore cannot spell the word either).
I think most people would agree that, collectively speaking, pool players rank pretty low on the intellectual scale.
Here's my own story..I posted this previously in another thread here.
I made up my mind years ago when I decided to own a table that my game(s) were going to be 8 Ball and 9 Ball.....nothing more.
Nobody would ever be a guest in my home to play pool on my table(s). I don't like visitors anyway.
I wanted a hard miserable, TRAINING FIELD.....(like in that old movie Rocky when he trained in the meat house whacking those carcasses) to get down on and sweat for hours. Maybe shooting the same shot 100-200 times, then moving it an inch and shooting it another 100-200 times. Thousands of shots a day...long ones, tough ones, hard long backcuts, etc. etc. etc. never any of those stupid easy ones. I wanted a torture chamber (and I got one)....practice was NOT SUPPOSED to be fun, in my opinion.
I told the installer to give me dead, used rails, with bad rubber...to mix 'em up. Bad pocket fixtures with corners that would hook and tear my clothes in order to break my concentration Cheap ass slow cloth. Poor lighting. Installed in a shed that was cold in the winter and miserably hot and humidity ridden in the summer with insects and bugs swarming. And to shim those pockets up to 4 inches...he messed up and made them 4 1/4 inches. If I ever have it recovered, they're going down to four inches...I'll watch over that. I've even paid the kids next door to come in there and throw stuff at each other across the table, yell and scream, chase each other around the table, grab the back of my cue stick, mess with the balls,...anything to break concentration when I'm training
The only thing important to me was that the contraption be perfectly level...that was a must.
That is the kind of thing that I believe is needed for a guy to train on so he can become all the pool player he wants to become.
I guess it's how much pain a fella is willing to endure to get to the point where he is oblivious to what the opponent does or what the railbirds are doing and he only concentrates intensely on his own procedures.
It sure does pay off at match time competition, though, when playing on good equipment.
To each his own I guess. I am a very weird person when it comes to training.
Have a good one........

lorider · Jun 3, 2019

Like some one else said. I admire your dedication also. What would you do in my case. Around here you will find yourself playing on...crappy valleys whith dead rails and dirty balls....well kept valleys with clean balls... Diamond 7 footers and last but not least...gold crowns.

It usually takes me a couple racks to adjust from one table to the other. It dont help much against the home team often but I find I adjust quicker than most players.

Maniac · Jun 3, 2019

Just my opinion, but I would try to set up and maintain my home table to the finest specifications that I could afford and just enjoy the APA (without actually worrying about the winning and losing aspect) as a night out well spent with your dad.

Unless you play on the exact same table every APA league night, you're never going to find the exact conditions from table to table anyway.

Maniac

jimmyco · Jun 3, 2019

Maniac said:
Just my opinion, but I would try to set up and maintain my home table to the finest specifications that I could afford and just enjoy the APA (without actually worrying about the winning and losing aspect) as a night out well spent with your dad.

Unless you play on the exact same table every APA league night, you're never going to find the exact conditions from table to table anyway.

Maniac

Agree 100%

Bob Jewett · Jun 3, 2019

California Fats said:
... Has anyone else done something similar, or did I just commit all kinds of blasphemy? :lol:

Technically, it's heresy. Here is a map of your future retirement community I got from an old guy named Dante. You are destined for the "burning tomb" level about half way down. :grin-devilish:

Actually, I think it's fine to try to duplicate competition conditions at home as long as you still find it fun to play on that equipment.

Celophanewrap · Jun 3, 2019

I got rid of my Simonis and went with Mercury Ultra, which I like a little better.
I say go with whatever works for you. If you feel that this is helping then yes, by all means

Chili Palmer · Jun 3, 2019

Low500 said:
You've demonstrated an individuality that is lacking in most people today.....I think that is good.
You set a goal and did as much as you could do to reach that goal. (most pool players don't even know what a goal is and furthermore cannot spell the word either).
I think most people would agree that, collectively speaking, pool players rank pretty low on the intellectual scale.
Here's my own story..I posted this previously in another thread here.
I made up my mind years ago when I decided to own a table that my game(s) were going to be 8 Ball and 9 Ball.....nothing more.
Nobody would ever be a guest in my home to play pool on my table(s). I don't like visitors anyway.
I wanted a hard miserable, TRAINING FIELD.....(like in that old movie Rocky when he trained in the meat house whacking those carcasses) to get down on and sweat for hours. Maybe shooting the same shot 100-200 times, then moving it an inch and shooting it another 100-200 times. Thousands of shots a day...long ones, tough ones, hard long backcuts, etc. etc. etc. never any of those stupid easy ones. I wanted a torture chamber (and I got one)....practice was NOT SUPPOSED to be fun, in my opinion.
I told the installer to give me dead, used rails, with bad rubber...to mix 'em up. Bad pocket fixtures with corners that would hook and tear my clothes in order to break my concentration Cheap ass slow cloth. Poor lighting. Installed in a shed that was cold in the winter and miserably hot and humidity ridden in the summer with insects and bugs swarming. And to shim those pockets up to 4 inches...he messed up and made them 4 1/4 inches. If I ever have it recovered, they're going down to four inches...I'll watch over that. I've even paid the kids next door to come in there and throw stuff at each other across the table, yell and scream, chase each other around the table, grab the back of my cue stick, mess with the balls,...anything to break concentration when I'm training
The only thing important to me was that the contraption be perfectly level...that was a must.
That is the kind of thing that I believe is needed for a guy to train on so he can become all the pool player he wants to become.
I guess it's how much pain a fella is willing to endure to get to the point where he is oblivious to what the opponent does or what the railbirds are doing and he only concentrates intensely on his own procedures.
It sure does pay off at match time competition, though, when playing on good equipment.
To each his own I guess. I am a very weird person when it comes to training.
Have a good one........

LOL, I play music I hate and my 7 year old granddaughter dances around the room, slides under the table, makes me watch her do cartwheels, constantly talks to me, etc. I also like to leave random stuff on the rails. Chalk, remote, patches, a rock (granddaughters

), and I only move it if it's physically in the way of my stance/bridge, and then it's only moved far enough to not be in the way.

It's improved my concentration for sure, Now I barely notice when someone talks to me when shooting.

jrhendy · Jun 3, 2019

garczar said:
Personally i'd rather have a root canal than play APA again but i gotta admire your dedication. If its what you like go for it.

I am 79 years old, have been playing pool for 65+ years and this is my first year playing APA and I am enjoying it very much.

BUT, I am playing in a Masters League with no handicaps. I have heard many of the complaints about APA and the sandbaggers and whatever, but there are always complaints in any league play and since APA is the biggest, there figures to be more. I doubt I would play in any of the handicap events myself.

It works at Hard Times in Sacramento. Lots of players at different skill levels and it is a well run league that brings a lot of business to my favorite room, so I know it will be around awhile.

Texas Carom Club · Jun 3, 2019

California Fats said:
I have always taken pride in having Simonis cloth and Brunswick Centennial balls on my table.

I was noticing the more I practiced at home, the worse I would do in the league when I played on the slower cloth and friction-ridden billiard balls that plague bars.

2 months ago, I changed my felt to Championship Invitational (much slower) and purchased a set of basic poly-resin balls.

I did this all to more closely match the conditions of the bars we play in...

After 8 matches, it made all the difference in the world. I now feel a level of consistency between my table and the tables we play on for the league.

It was a hell of a sacrifice, but quitting the APA is not an option. It's my one night out a week, and it's something my father and I have been doing together for years.

Has anyone else done something similar, or did I just commit all kinds of blasphemy? :lol:

im looking to get myself a valley and put nasty cheap cloth on it, buy 15 dollar ball set so i can mimick bar table play at home,

Cornerman · Jun 3, 2019

California Fats said:
I have always taken pride in having Simonis cloth and Brunswick Centennial balls on my table.

I was noticing the more I practiced at home, the worse I would do in the league when I played on the slower cloth and friction-ridden billiard balls that plague bars.

2 months ago, I changed my felt to Championship Invitational (much slower) and purchased a set of basic poly-resin balls.

I did this all to more closely match the conditions of the bars we play in...

After 8 matches, it made all the difference in the world. I now feel a level of consistency between my table and the tables we play on for the league.

It was a hell of a sacrifice, but quitting the APA is not an option. It's my one night out a week, and it's something my father and I have been doing together for years.

Has anyone else done something similar, or did I just commit all kinds of blasphemy? :lol:

I think this sheds light on some of the challenges when players say how much easier it is to go from large table to small. They seem to forget (or just don't realize) that the vast majority of small tables are in bars, and the conditions are normally worse than a typical 9' table at home or at a pool hall. I think if the conditions are the same the small table *is* easier, and the clustering isn't a big challenge. But if the conditions suck, the cloth is slow, the cueball is heavier, etc., then going down to a small table when you're used to a big table in good condition just plain blows. It takes more than a couple of games to get somewhat used to the conditions (not two shots like internet warriors might claim), and by that time, half the set is over.

On a related note, when I was playing the APA in the 90's and 00's, I had a cue (20 oz Lishan Cobra, very hard tip, Nylon wrap, unidentifiable wood) that I would use specifically for the bars that had a heavier ball. I seemed to have better control of the heavy conditions right off the bat with that cue. I also had a big ball and a heavy ball at home to practice with prior to league night. I also had a small table at home, which meant I had less "how do I deal with clusters" challenges. I did pretty well adjusting up to a big table, which was easier than adjusting down to a small table, mostly due to the conditions change.

Freddie <~~~ can't adjust to anything anymore

JazzyJeff87 · Jun 3, 2019

Bob Jewett said:
Technically, it's heresy. Here is a map of your future retirement community I got from an old guy named Dante. You are destined for the "burning tomb" level about half way down. :grin-devilish:

View attachment 521847

Actually, I think it's fine to try to duplicate competition conditions at home as long as you still find it fun to play on that equipment.

Wow. That is absolutely the coolest thing I’ve ever seen. I wonder if they make a puzzle version of it? I have some Hieronymus Bosch paintings in puzzle form but this might take the cake. This is looks different than any Dante picture I can find searching the 9 circles or whatever. Where is this from? And where in it would sandbaggers go? (A hilarious term)

Bob Jewett · Jun 3, 2019

JazzyJeff87 said:
... Where is this from? And where in it would sandbaggers go? ...

Google is your friend.

I believe that sandbaggers fall under the category of "Ipocriti", and well below heretics.

sbpoolleague · Jun 3, 2019

California Fats said:
I have always taken pride in having Simonis cloth and Brunswick Centennial balls on my table.

I was noticing the more I practiced at home, the worse I would do in the league when I played on the slower cloth and friction-ridden billiard balls that plague bars.

2 months ago, I changed my felt to Championship Invitational (much slower) and purchased a set of basic poly-resin balls.

I did this all to more closely match the conditions of the bars we play in...

After 8 matches, it made all the difference in the world. I now feel a level of consistency between my table and the tables we play on for the league.

It was a hell of a sacrifice, but quitting the APA is not an option. It's my one night out a week, and it's something my father and I have been doing together for years.

Has anyone else done something similar, or did I just commit all kinds of blasphemy? :lol:

What I did as a league operator was to educate the owners of our sponsoring bars about the benefits of having quality equipment, including professional cloth. In some cases the league helped bars out with the added costs of the high quality cloth. The net result is a league with 9 bars and 20 tables, all covered with Simonis 860.

To hear that someone puts crappy cloth on their home table to match the crappy cloth on their league tables is disturbing, and just not right.

pt109 · Jun 3, 2019

sbpoolleague said:
What I did as a league operator was to educate the owners of our sponsoring bars about the benefits of having quality equipment, including professional cloth. In some cases the league helped bars out with the added costs of the high quality cloth. The net result is a league with 9 bars and 20 tables, all covered with Simonis 860.

To hear that someone puts crappy cloth on their home table to match the crappy cloth on their league tables is disturbing, and just not right.

I like this approach.....good thinking.
Our room has nine 7-footers...5 Diamonds and 4 Valleys...Simonis and match balls
on every one....and kept clean.

...and good cue balls...we keep them open.

JazzyJeff87 · Jun 3, 2019

Bob Jewett said:
Google is your friend.

I believe that sandbaggers fall under the category of "Ipocriti", and well below heretics.

All I got from google was what I’d imagine is the original painting of that. Without the simplistic pictographs and Latin? Words all over.

I don’t personally know anyone that just asks questions without googling but they’re obviously around and they belong somewhere in this leveled madness as they have caused more google it responses than you can shake a stick at. I want that picture, chopped into 1000 oddly shaped pieces and on my table post haste!

Bob Jewett · Jun 3, 2019

JazzyJeff87 said:
All I got from google was what I’d imagine is the original painting of that. Without the simplistic pictographs and Latin? Words all over.

I don’t personally know anyone that just asks questions without googling but they’re obviously around and they belong somewhere in this leveled madness as they have caused more google it responses than you can shake a stick at. I want that picture, chopped into 1000 oddly shaped pieces and on my table post haste!

My browser has an option to click on an image and search for similar images. When I do that I pretty quickly get to products like this:

https://grangerprints.printstoreonl...0-woodcut-venetian-13134159.html?prodid=81240

which is a 1000-piece jigsaw puzzle but it looks like they may have trimmed the sides, which would be nasty.

Downgrading equipment to play better in the APA

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