Am I over reacting or is this owner actually an $#!?

I was there as well.... and although I do agree with alot of what this man has said about his experiences as the owner did have several tables closed for non practice and if we wanted to practice we had to pay 10 dollars an hour. The second day of the tourny we had to play at 1 pm and the place didn't open till 12 noon. We couldn't practice very long as the staff was still cleaning up.

That being said the room WAS VERY NICE and I chalked the inconvienances up to the Grand Opening Tournament (as advertised) and a new place. There were 74 players playing in this thing which is a boat load. The place was a mad house and completely slammed. Noone expected such a turnout and I expect there would be problems due to this. The food was exellent and the Equipment was superb (tables).

The only complaints I would have would be:

Every Tourny Table had different cueballs (Arimath, blue circle, red circle) tough to adjust at times lol

Lack of seating (chairs) ... probably due to the unexpected turnout!

Lack of practice tables ....but in defense of that everyone was in the same boat.

Other then that like I said it was a Fantastic Pool Room and I hope it does well! Also Shannon and Marge and The Great Southern Billiards Tour RUN A ABSOLUTE FANTASTIC TOURNAMENT ... I hope they continue to run these things well into the future. They certainly know what they are doing!


Greg T

ShootingRazbone said:

I was there as well

Click to expand...

After watching you play...I was stunned that you didn't win. :wink:

mikeyfrost said:

You know while the players love tourneys you have to consider several things. First off the green fee is going to the tourney director. The rest of the money goes to the pot. The owner of the room meanwhile kicks in extra dough. So he started the day 1k in the hole. Now he has 10 tables out of business for two days, that hurts bad on a weekend when you make must of your week's take. Pool players like mountain dew and red bull much more than beer especially while they are being competitive. End of the day the bar is not making up the difference and when an event comes through the businesses usually lose. It sucks, I am friends with a room owner and he's broken it down to me that it is much more profitable to run business as normal on a weekend than put on a tourney and have his tables taken up for free.

About your experience specifically give him a second chance you have no idea of his situation. He may be two weeks late on a lease payment and is literally counting pennies trying to keep his room open. End of the day anyone can seem like an ass under the right circumstance. I'd give it another shot and talk to the room owner a little on the side and tell him what you saw and felt went on. You may get comped for the night and freeroll a night on the table of your choice. You may get it crammed deep up your.....either way you wont know til you try. Give him a shot. He opened the room to promote pool and help the players...no one would make that kind of investment to try to trump someone.

Click to expand...

I think this is a very short-term way of looking at things. Seems to me that being a tournament stop, you'll have new players in the room that have not been there before. In fact, it seems like it was the first trip to the room for the gentleman that started this post. IF (and in this situation I think it's a big IF) you take advantage of that opportunity to attract new players to your venue, hosting a tournament COULD be very profitable in the LONG-term. Yeah, you may lose out a little money today, but if even 5 of those new players that didn't come in before, now come in twice a week, how long does it take you to recover that money "lost"? Seems like a potential good investment if you have the business sense to take advantage of it. Seems like this guy blew a huge opportunity.

I don't see it as smearing at all. This forum is a place for us to relate, share, and even complain about our pool-relate experiences. I would have made the same post had I been forced to practise on a table at $10 an hour, then be forced to wait 30 or so minutes for him to come play me in the tournament because he's the room owner and exempt from disqualification. You know you're having a tournament - stock up or be prepared to send someone from your staff to run errands.

BrooklynJay said:

I know Arthur from his time in New York and he's a good guy.

There's so many rooms shutting down all over the place due to the economy and to the lack of interest in pool that it's sad that people are already shooting down a new room due to one person's experience.

Click to expand...

The lesson to be learned here is that bad news travels faster than good. A room owner, or any business owner should keep this in mind at all times. If you give someone a phenomenal experience, they MIGHT tell a few other people about it. If you get someone a terrible experience, they WILL tell everyone they know about it! It comes down to even the smallest details. If your room is spotless, someone might notice, but if your room looks like the floor hasn't been swept and the toilets haven't been cleaned in a month, most people definitely WILL notice. I think every business owner would be better off to learn this concept very early on.

Club Billiards said:

I think this is a very short-term way of looking at things. Seems to me that being a tournament stop, you'll have new players in the room that have not been there before. In fact, it seems like it was the first trip to the room for the gentleman that started this post. IF (and in this situation I think it's a big IF) you take advantage of that opportunity to attract new players to your venue, hosting a tournament COULD be very profitable in the LONG-term. Yeah, you may lose out a little money today, but if even 5 of those new players that didn't come in before, now come in twice a week, how long does it take you to recover that money "lost"? Seems like a potential good investment if you have the business sense to take advantage of it. Seems like this guy blew a huge opportunity.

Click to expand...

I've only been reading this thread, but I have to say your post is spot on. You never get a 2nd chance to make a 1st impression. The first time I went to this or that place to play in a tourney has always been my sole determining factor if I go back. If I'm left with more negatives than positives, then the choice is easy.

I wouldn't read a post like this and not give the room a shot, but if it were to happen to me; you can bet I wouldn't be spending my money there again. I go outta my way to play at a poolhall (both in tourneys or if I'm even just passing thru) that's 45 minutes from me just because I like the owner. I've spent extra money while there (tee shirts, food - even if I'm there for only an hour, and even bought a couple of cues there) because of my experiences with him and the room too. You leave a good impression on someone like me and you will be rewarded even if I can't become a regular.....oh, and I'm sure my word of mouth has steered a few $$$ his way too.

So, having a tour stop tourney at your place may not payoff bigtime for that particular weekend, but play your cards right, and the money will come back to you. That all said....I might be inclined to give the place just one more shot since it is BRAND NEW, and some of the "bugs" may be worked out the next time (but that's the only reason I'd consider going back).

pooltchr said:

Brian,
I give them about 6 months before they close down. They certainly aren't going to put any other rooms in the area out of business.
I've heard others complain about the poor customer service, and the very high drink prices. That's hardly the way to get players to return. There are plenty of other places in town.
Steve

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more.

That Rosen fellow sounds like he's from New York, the rough part of New York that is. Lots of great folks in New York (I lived there for 10 years) but some of those characters have one great big chip on their shoulder. Perhaps Mr. Rosen isn't from New York; he has a bad NY attitude in any case.

Room owners like him deserve to go out of business.


Flex

gunzby said:

The only excuse I can make for em is that it's a new business and there will be growing pains.

There is however no excuse for the owner not apologizing to you for making you wait.

If I was the owner I would have told the tourney players that they could practice on any table in the place before the tournament started, but if regulars came in just to play they would have to open up a few tables.

Click to expand...

Can't recall as being a jerk is ever called for. Mr. Rosen needs to take some Dale Carnegie lessons in how to influence people. Or rather, he just needs a few lessons in good manners, as it doesn't seem he got them from his mother.

Flex

p3ga said:

What a genius. That $5.00 may ultimately cost him hundreds, as I doubt you (or many others on the board) would go back to that establishment.

Click to expand...

Go back there? Heck, that place is on my "never go there" list.

Flex

Varney Cues said:

After watching you play...I was stunned that you didn't win. :wink:

Click to expand...

Lots of great players there this past weekend... amatuer or not ...that was a tough freakin tourny! Monday, Lewis, Abernathy, Stewart, Capps, Fuller....Alot of people want nothing to do with that action. The TV table got me and alot of others.

IF I HAD THAT VARNEY CUE YOU LET ME TRY WITH THE MOD ON THE FERRELL MAYBE I WOULD HAVE! Outstanding modification you have come up with and I was absolutley shocked at the playability of a shaft that had none for me pryor! I will be buying that from you this summer, count me in.



Greg T

timdog24 said:

I agree with you here BrooklynJay. This is a lot of heat for one guy's experience. I know Arthur from NYC as well, and he is a solid guy. He helped run Corner Billiards for years and worked at Chelsea before that so he does know how to run a poolroom. Not saying what happened didn't happen, but I'm sure he's feeling the pressure of just beginning a brand new business that hasn't taken off as planned yet. From a player's perspective, I heard the room is really nice and I think players shouldn't alienate the joint without checking it out for yourself first.

Click to expand...

As Jay Helfert said, word of mouth... Just keep that "word of mouth" in mind.

From what I've read so far, the original poster's experience seems to be a reflection of other problems there, to which Pooltchr has alluded.

Yeppers, I can just feel that lovin' New Yorker attitude foaming at the mouth. How do I know about that attitude? I know a New Yorker when I see one -- the good, the bad and the ugly. I like the good, the others can take a hike.

Flex

mikeyfrost said:

You may get it crammed deep up your.....either way you wont know til you try. Give him a shot. He opened the room to promote pool and help the players...no one would make that kind of investment to try to trump someone.

Click to expand...

I think he opened the room to make money, which is fine, room owners need to make a profit, hopefully a good one! However, treating customers the way he did won't exactly give them the warm 'n fuzzies, or have them bringing in their friends for a long session of pool.

As for "trump"ing someone, if you haven't lived in New York or had a lot of experience with a certain kind of New Yorker, it may be difficult to convey to you just how terribly some proprietors treat their customers, even good customers.

If I have to deal with a difficult New Yorker, I make sure to let them know I can bite too.

Nuff said.

Flex

Flex makes a good point, and someone else also mentioned it. I have lived up north, and down south, and there is a very large cultural difference. One of which is we in the south like to have a somewhat personal relationship with the people we do business with. The "dive" that Brian spoke about is by no means a fancy high end pool room. But the owner and his wife know my name, my wife's name, and how many dogs I have. It's that relationship that makes his room one of my favorite places. When I walk through the door, I actually feel welcome. People are glad to see me. I'm not just another $10 of table time.

People from other parts of the country may not understand that idea. People who grew up in the south will recognize what I am saying immediately.

Steve

From Arthur at Paradise

Players-

Guess I’ll just have to sort out the constructive criticism from the other bashing kind of stuff, but I appreciate the feedback, and gladly accept comments and suggestions. If anyone would like to talk
to me directly, please call me here at 704 900-7525, mostly because I don’t know who’s who on this
blog, it would be easier to talk to someone with a name and a face.

Brian, I’m sorry you had such a bad time. If I knew where you were at I would have apologized, and I
do remember a quick sorry when I came up to you at the table, but I guess that wasn’t enough. Maybe you were still mad about the practice time thing, and I’m sure I will be able to make adjustments for the
next time. Just please keep in mind that I do have some regulars who come to play on weekend afternoons, and didn’t want to have to throw them out.

I also need to praise Shannon and Marge and thank them for their hard work and great tournament.
I can’t say enough good stuff about them. I’m sure you all will agree with me on that.

Just remember this is a new business, and I have put this together myself. There’s going to be some
learning and adjusting and I will probably continue to make some mistakes and mis-judge some
situations, but I will always strive to make things better---that’s what I do. No one here can doubt my
integrity or good will, and if you really do, then you may just be borrowing trouble.

Paradise is a great room, the equipment is impeccable, and for the next tournament, we will use the
same set of balls on every table. The food is great and I must commend my staff (albeit too small),
for their energy and hard work is really second to none.

Please accept my apologies for the inconveniences you’ve gone thru. I will do my best to be better prepared next time.

Thanks,

Arthur

Flex said:

Couldn't agree more.

That Rosen fellow sounds like he's from New York, the rough part of New York that is. Lots of great folks in New York (I lived there for 10 years) but some of those characters have one great big chip on their shoulder. Perhaps Mr. Rosen isn't from New York; he has a bad NY attitude in any case.

Room owners like him deserve to go out of business.


Flex

Click to expand...

Which part of New York did you live in? I'm born and raised and I'm rather curious about this "NY attitude" you speak of.

n1neball said:

Please accept my apologies for the inconveniences you’ve gone thru. I will do my best to be better prepared next time.

Thanks,

Arthur

Click to expand...

Arthur,
Thanks for coming and sharing your side of the story. If I can get up your way from Spartanburg, SC, one day, I'll try to drop in.

n1neball said:

Players-

Guess I’ll just have to sort out the constructive criticism from the other bashing kind of stuff, but I appreciate the feedback, and gladly accept comments and suggestions. If anyone would like to talk
to me directly, please call me here at 704 900-7525, mostly because I don’t know who’s who on this
blog, it would be easier to talk to someone with a name and a face.

Brian, I’m sorry you had such a bad time. If I knew where you were at I would have apologized, and I
do remember a quick sorry when I came up to you at the table, but I guess that wasn’t enough. Maybe you were still mad about the practice time thing, and I’m sure I will be able to make adjustments for the
next time. Just please keep in mind that I do have some regulars who come to play on weekend afternoons, and didn’t want to have to throw them out.

I also need to praise Shannon and Marge and thank them for their hard work and great tournament.
I can’t say enough good stuff about them. I’m sure you all will agree with me on that.

Just remember this is a new business, and I have put this together myself. There’s going to be some
learning and adjusting and I will probably continue to make some mistakes and mis-judge some
situations, but I will always strive to make things better---that’s what I do. No one here can doubt my
integrity or good will, and if you really do, then you may just be borrowing trouble.

Paradise is a great room, the equipment is impeccable, and for the next tournament, we will use the
same set of balls on every table. The food is great and I must commend my staff (albeit too small),
for their energy and hard work is really second to none.

Please accept my apologies for the inconveniences you’ve gone thru. I will do my best to be better prepared next time.

Thanks,

Arthur

Click to expand...

You seem very nice, but having come from Chelsea Billiards and Corner Billiards (a league director or eight years), how did you not already know that you should use the same kinds of balls on every table in a tournament, and not charge $10 an hour to practise before a tournament, and that you should be showing up to your matches on time???

Jude Rosenstock said:

Which part of New York did you live in? I'm born and raised and I'm rather curious about this "NY attitude" you speak of.

Click to expand...

I lived in the Mount Kisco area.

Since you're asking about the attitude thing, please indulge me if I mention a few incidents.

Two happened at a camera store (not naming anyone in particular here, or the store) where I was a very regular customer, one who not only bought film in prodigious quantities, but who developed said film and had custom print work also done on occasion, and who purchased not a small number of cameras, both new and used 35mm SLRs (Nikons) and lenses from time to time.

The first time was when I was inspecting a good, used Nikon SLR and had some trouble removing the lens. One of their guys shouted out at me all the way from across the store to not break it. Heaven knows, and those guys did too, that I was not going to break a camera or lens. The camera obviously had a problem. When that jerk screamed at me, I blinked at him, and gingerly placed the camera back on the counter, and stepped away from it. I then told him that I knew what I was doing, that I wasn't breaking anything, and that his outburst was totally unacceptable. Then I said I was about ready to leave his store and never return again, and tell all my friends what just happened, unless he apologized to me. He did apologize.

Second time was in the same store, and I had just purchased some film, and the owner of the store sold it to me. At that moment, a horrendous crime was being reported on WCBS, newsradio 880, which was on and very audible, and I mentioned it to the owner, who simply ignored what I said, closed the register and went to the back of the store. Talk about being polite! He wasn't intentionally being rude, as far as I know, but just being himself, and it wasn't pleasant.

Third time, I was in the City, not far from the Ziegfeld, and for some reason a jerk said, unprovoked, "Where did they import you from?" Mind you, I was in a classic coat and tie. That jerk got a come back from yours truly, "I'm from ****** (place not far from Chappaqua) where are you from??" That good old New Yorker penchant for trying to make someone feel insignificant really did bother me, I admit.

Fourth time, at a printer's, in Brooklyn, of whom the proprietors were good friends. Said proprietor's brother, a New Yorker given to really salty language, when his brother was having some difficulty dealing with the delivery of a time-sensitive order, said "Gimme the phone" and then bellowed into the phone the following (I paraphrase), "You tell that g**d*** driver to stick that steel roller under his ***** and bounce up and down on it all the way here for 7 hours. I'm sure he won't forget to deliver it!!"

Jude, those four should be enough, at least for now.

Some time, I'll be happy to regale you with all the great, refined New Yorkers I know and how they too despise the crude, crass and offensive style of some of their confreres.

Respectfully,

Flex

n1neball said:

Players-

Guess I’ll just have to sort out the constructive criticism from the other bashing kind of stuff, but I appreciate the feedback, and gladly accept comments and suggestions. If anyone would like to talk
to me directly, please call me here at 704 900-7525, mostly because I don’t know who’s who on this
blog, it would be easier to talk to someone with a name and a face.

Brian, I’m sorry you had such a bad time. If I knew where you were at I would have apologized, and I
do remember a quick sorry when I came up to you at the table, but I guess that wasn’t enough. Maybe you were still mad about the practice time thing, and I’m sure I will be able to make adjustments for the
next time. Just please keep in mind that I do have some regulars who come to play on weekend afternoons, and didn’t want to have to throw them out.

I also need to praise Shannon and Marge and thank them for their hard work and great tournament.
I can’t say enough good stuff about them. I’m sure you all will agree with me on that.

Just remember this is a new business, and I have put this together myself. There’s going to be some
learning and adjusting and I will probably continue to make some mistakes and mis-judge some
situations, but I will always strive to make things better---that’s what I do. No one here can doubt my
integrity or good will, and if you really do, then you may just be borrowing trouble.

Paradise is a great room, the equipment is impeccable, and for the next tournament, we will use the
same set of balls on every table. The food is great and I must commend my staff (albeit too small),
for their energy and hard work is really second to none.

Please accept my apologies for the inconveniences you’ve gone thru. I will do my best to be better prepared next time.

Thanks,

Arthur

Click to expand...

after reading the orig post i can relate as i have numerous experiences closely resembling it. the same things definitely annoy me.

but i gotta say

I give the man respect for opening a new room.

I give Arthur respect for stepping up here too.

a public apology,
saying here's my # call me directly,
saying i plan to make it better...etc
way to go arthur.
(not just cause i'm a ny transplant also)

n1neball said:

Players-

Guess I’ll just have to sort out the constructive criticism from the other bashing kind of stuff, but I appreciate the feedback, and gladly accept comments and suggestions. If anyone would like to talk
to me directly, please call me here at 704 900-7525, mostly because I don’t know who’s who on this
blog, it would be easier to talk to someone with a name and a face.

Brian, I’m sorry you had such a bad time. If I knew where you were at I would have apologized, and I
do remember a quick sorry when I came up to you at the table, but I guess that wasn’t enough. Maybe you were still mad about the practice time thing, and I’m sure I will be able to make adjustments for the
next time. Just please keep in mind that I do have some regulars who come to play on weekend afternoons, and didn’t want to have to throw them out.

I also need to praise Shannon and Marge and thank them for their hard work and great tournament.
I can’t say enough good stuff about them. I’m sure you all will agree with me on that.

Just remember this is a new business, and I have put this together myself. There’s going to be some
learning and adjusting and I will probably continue to make some mistakes and mis-judge some
situations, but I will always strive to make things better---that’s what I do. No one here can doubt my
integrity or good will, and if you really do, then you may just be borrowing trouble.

Paradise is a great room, the equipment is impeccable, and for the next tournament, we will use the
same set of balls on every table. The food is great and I must commend my staff (albeit too small),
for their energy and hard work is really second to none.

Please accept my apologies for the inconveniences you’ve gone thru. I will do my best to be better prepared next time.

Thanks,

Arthur

Click to expand...

Good luck to you Arthur. When you own a poolroom, you have bought a seven day a week, 365 day a year JOB! And they can be long days too. I know, I've had four. It is never easy to get a new place off the ground. The first six months is all about promoting, publicizing and advertising your business. If you do the right things, it can get a little easier after that. If you aren't making it within six months then you have a problem.

All that being said, I have only one piece of advice for you. When you own a poolroom, you are in the PEOPLE business, not the pool business. Pool is the vehicle that brings people in to visit you. If you treat people right, your business will grow. And the converse is true as well.