Epoxy in Carbon Fiber Shaft

T

_tony_

Registered
Hi everyone,
I own a jump cue made of carbon fiber. It is very easy to jump any ball, altough due to lack of weight (Shaft is around 80g) it is very hard to control the cueball, due to the accelleration that needs to go through the shot.
Considering that the shaft is empty inside until 4cm away from the ferrule, I was thinking to insert some weights and pour in some epoxy resin so that would adhere on the carbon fiber and get the weight to around 150/160g.
Any suggestion on the matter?

Thanks
 
BarenbruggeCues

BarenbruggeCues

Unregistered User
Silver Member
_tony_ said:
Hi everyone,
I own a jump cue made of carbon fiber. It is very easy to jump any ball, altough due to lack of weight (Shaft is around 80g) it is very hard to control the cueball, due to the accelleration that needs to go through the shot.
Considering that the shaft is empty inside until 4cm away from the ferrule, I was thinking to insert some weights and pour in some epoxy resin so that would adhere on the carbon fiber and get the weight to around 150/160g.
Any suggestion on the matter?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Hard to say.........
Are you going to do the work or are you asking so you can have the knowledge to tell a cue smith how to do the work?
 
Kim Bye

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
_tony_ said:
Hi everyone,
I own a jump cue made of carbon fiber. It is very easy to jump any ball, altough due to lack of weight (Shaft is around 80g) it is very hard to control the cueball, due to the accelleration that needs to go through the shot.
Considering that the shaft is empty inside until 4cm away from the ferrule, I was thinking to insert some weights and pour in some epoxy resin so that would adhere on the carbon fiber and get the weight to around 150/160g.
Any suggestion on the matter?

Thanks
Click to expand...

You don`t want epoxy resin filling your shaft. By using the right materials, 130g shouldn't be a problem at all.
 
Kim Bye

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
conetip said:
What is the down side of using epoxy to fill a shaft with?

Neil
Click to expand...

It`s gonna be super heavy and have a really dead feel to it. PU expaning glues don`t work either, you need the right kind of foam. Once you have that it`s fairly straight forward, PM me if you want my recipe :wink:
 
T

_tony_

Registered
BarenbruggeCues said:
Hard to say.........
Are you going to do the work or are you asking so you can have the knowledge to tell a cue smith how to do the work?
Click to expand...

I would do it myself.

I intend to place a steel rod in it and my first thought was to use foam, although my concern is regarding the foam be able to stick to the interior side of the shaft, avoiding to have moving parts during the stroke. Especially avoiding for the steel rod to hit the ferrule side of the shaft every time I jump a ball.
 
Last edited:
captainjko

captainjko

Kirk
Silver Member
Kim Bye said:
It`s gonna be super heavy and have a really dead feel to it. PU expaning glues don`t work either, you need the right kind of foam. Once you have that it`s fairly straight forward, PM me if you want my recipe :wink:
Click to expand...

Tried to send a PM for info on the foam, but your mailbox is full....
 
S

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
_tony_ said:
I would do it myself.

I intend to place a steel rod in it and my first thought was to use foam, although my concern is regarding the foam be able to stick to the interior side of the shaft, avoiding to have moving parts during the stroke. Especially avoiding for the steel rod to hit the ferrule side of the shaft every time I jump a ball.
Click to expand...

If you just want to get a certain weight/balance it's not all that difficult to find appropriate materials especially if you are in the USA. There are some with different densities and weights so I guess you can use this to achieve the desired result. For somebody like me who is from Ukraine there are more challenges in getting the needed materials but I'm ok looking for solutions;).
Don't really understand the idea to use a steel rod? Do you mean a very thin and long steel rod going from the insert at the joint end and in the foam? :eek:
What is the main goal you want to achieve?
Of course I'm so far from being an expert in cue-building and atm just learning by doing some projects for the first time. The main help very often is going from a simple logic at least in my case...
 
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Mcues

Mcues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
_tony_ said:
I would do it myself.

I intend to place a steel rod in it and my first thought was to use foam, although my concern is regarding the foam be able to stick to the interior side of the shaft, avoiding to have moving parts during the stroke. Especially avoiding for the steel rod to hit the ferrule side of the shaft every time I jump a ball.
Click to expand...

Forget the steel rod, use just foam, it will adhere to the inside of the blank and even if it not , it doesn't matter, the available foams are mostly self expanding(insulation) thus they will not be moving around inside the blank.
The steel rod is unnecessary for accomplishing your goal. Unfortunately, lack of research and lots of guessing are driving both the questions and the answers on this subject. Of course, if your partial goal is to experiment then I would fill the blank partly with foam then after it dries add the steel rod and lock it in with epoxy.( will this improve the jump shaft, no idea)

Mario
 
BarenbruggeCues

BarenbruggeCues

Unregistered User
Silver Member
_tony_ said:
I would do it myself.

I intend to place a steel rod in it and my first thought was to use foam, although my concern is regarding the foam be able to stick to the interior side of the shaft, avoiding to have moving parts during the stroke. Especially avoiding for the steel rod to hit the ferrule side of the shaft every time I jump a ball.
Click to expand...

What you want to do is an experiment within itself. Try some of your different ideas and see where it lands you.
Food for thought...........
Any jump shafts that I have played I've found that the lighter the shaft, the better the jumping ability. With this thought in mind, I believe adding any additional weight to the shaft should be done at the joint end and not the tip end.
Several ways to achieve this but it may involve more work than you would like to do to experiment for your end result.
 
T

_tony_

Registered
Some more details

I believe I could better explain what I'd like to accomplish.

Last week I was at the pool club where I play and I had a brief talk with a member (super good player) about his equipment and I tried his Purplehearth custom jump cue (with added mass - around 150g just the shaft) with phenolic tip.

It was super easy to jump and mostly the control of the cue ball was surprisingly easy. That said, jumping with my jump cue is ridiculously easy, although lacks some control due to its light weight, because requires a very fast acceleration during the stroke and we all know that this may lead in a less controlled movement. That's why I'm looking to increase the weight of the jump cue. (if someone wants to correct me on this I'm all ears).
Looking at Newton's 2nd law (F = mass * acceleration) applied to a jump in Pool, results in understanding that to obtain the same force on the same conditions (of a jump) I will need to apply an higher acceleration through the stroke to compensate the lack of weight.

That said, my idea would be to fill up the shaft from the ferrule all the way until the thread. My initial thought was foam, although I wouldn't be able to achieve enough grams to change substantially the weight of the shaft. So I thought about using foam but inserting a steel rod (M5 European standard) to increase the weight and secure it with some epoxy resin for carbon fiber able to stick to the walls of the shaft.

I was hoping to rely on all your experience to have an honest opinion of which materials to use.

Thanks to every single comment so far. Hope this clears up some of the confusion I may have created.

Thanks again to whoever may keep helping.
 
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EL Picos

EL Picos

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why you don't fill full with epoxy resin?
Fill it with water to obtain de cubic load and after it will be easy to calcuate the density stuff that the job need.
You can mix more heavy or light particle in the epoxy resin to adjust the weight like you want.
 
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conetip

conetip

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
_tony_ said:
Hi everyone,
I own a jump cue made of carbon fiber. It is very easy to jump any ball, altough due to lack of weight (Shaft is around 80g) it is very hard to control the cueball, due to the accelleration that needs to go through the shot.
Considering that the shaft is empty inside until 4cm away from the ferrule, I was thinking to insert some weights and pour in some epoxy resin so that would adhere on the carbon fiber and get the weight to around 150/160g.
Any suggestion on the matter?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Is your jump shaft 1 piece or does it have a handle?
If it has a handle, make a pin that is 20g heavier than the one you have.
Or make another handle that is 20g heavier.
Experiment in 20g or so increments.
You may find for you that around 120g is good for you, or even 100g is good for you. That extra 20 gram is like 20 to 25% heavier, depending on how you want to express it. 80g to 100g is actually quite a significant change. 100g to 120g is a little less and so. so 140g to 160g is only like a 12.5% change.
If you go down the route of filling with epoxy or what ever, removing the mould release from the inside of the tube is a very important step to take.
Not required if you make different handles with different weight in them.
Neil
 
T

_tony_

Registered
conetip said:
Is your jump shaft 1 piece or does it have a handle?
If it has a handle, make a pin that is 20g heavier than the one you have.
Or make another handle that is 20g heavier.
Experiment in 20g or so increments.
You may find for you that around 120g is good for you, or even 100g is good for you. That extra 20 gram is like 20 to 25% heavier, depending on how you want to express it. 80g to 100g is actually quite a significant change. 100g to 120g is a little less and so. so 140g to 160g is only like a 12.5% change.
If you go down the route of filling with epoxy or what ever, removing the mould release from the inside of the tube is a very important step to take.
Not required if you make different handles with different weight in them.
Neil
Click to expand...

It does have a 2 pcs handle. The middle part (for dart style jumps) is super light and I'm planning to make it a bit heavier as well. As much as I'd like to do what you say I'm not a cuemaker and mostly I don't own a lathe. I understand your reasoning behind the percentage of increment of weight, although I'm gonna have one shot at this so I'll try El picos approach maybe to understand the volume I need and calculate an increment of around 50g.
What do you mean with "removing the mould"?
Sorry but I've never used epoxy before.

EL Picos said:
Why you don't fill full with epoxy resin?
Fill it with water to obtain de cubic load and after it will be easy to calcuate the density stuff that the job need.
You can mix more heavy or light particle in the epoxy resin to adjust the weight like you want.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the hint! I just need to ask my friend about the different particles, although tomorrow I'm gonna meet him and check the materials at his workplace
One question though, willing stick to the interiors of the carbon fiber shaft?
 
EL Picos

EL Picos

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't understand very well your question: willing stick?? I'm french Canadian, I don't catch everytings in english!
 
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