Name Cues Not Made By Person With The Name

HawaiianEye · Dec 3, 2018

Here is a question for custom cue makers.

If you have a cue with YOUR name on it and YOU didn't ever touch the cue, should it be considered one of YOUR cues?

I'm talking about if you have maybe one helper and the helper does ALL the work and the cue is sold as YOUR cue.

It is still a custom, but not by the guy who has his name attached to the cue.

Is it still considered YOUR cue because you maybe trained the guy and it is made on YOUR equipment and maybe using your specs?

greyghost · Dec 3, 2018

HawaiianEye said:
Here is a question for custom cue makers.

If you have a cue with YOUR name on it and YOU didn't ever touch the cue, should it be considered one of YOUR cues?

I'm talking about if you have maybe one helper and the helper does ALL the work and the cue is sold as YOUR cue.

It is still a custom, but not by the guy who has his name attached to the cue.

Is it still considered YOUR cue because you maybe trained the guy and it is made on YOUR equipment and maybe using your specs?

Yes it’s your cue. If made to your specs under your supervision in your shop on your equipment.....

Scruggs sneakys are not any less Tim’s because bob made many of them....if they were folks would be looking for bob sneakies instead.

As an example:

I’d bet anyone arguing against that makes anything cues or not wouldn’t allow a shop employee to slap said employees name on the label instead of the shop owners.

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Snooker Theory · Dec 3, 2018

I can't really be considered a cuemaker by any means, so I won't share my opinion, but I have often wondered this myself. Looking forward to reading some of the cuemakers opinions on this topic. Good thread.

greyghost · Dec 3, 2018

Snooker Theory said:
I can't really be considered a cuemaker by any means, so I won't share my opinion, but I have often wondered this myself. Looking forward to reading some of the cuemakers opinions on this topic. Good thread.

I think this should be a good thread too, reminds me of the talks of manual vs cnc.....and of using one of the other makes for less of a cue or cue building skills

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HawaiianEye · Dec 4, 2018

greyghost said:
Yes it’s your cue. If made to your specs under your supervision in your shop on your equipment.....

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How about in your shop, but in a town 100 miles away from where you live and not under your supervision?

captainjko · Dec 4, 2018

If it's not considered the cue maker's cue, do you know how many fake Chevy's. Ford's, Dodge's, etc. there are out on the road today???? Specs are created and others can apply in order to maintain brand name.....

greyghost · Dec 4, 2018

HawaiianEye said:
How about in your shop, but in a town 100 miles away from where you live and not under your supervision?

Do I still have qc? If so besides me claiming a lot of mileage on my taxes....sure.

A great example for me is one of my favorite cues I built on my mentors equipment, his taper, his shop.......it’s technically to me even tho I made the sob.....it’s a Weinstock.....Joel used to call them keebstocks lol

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greyghost · Dec 4, 2018

captainjko said:
If it's not considered the cue maker's cue, do you know how many fake Chevy's. Ford's, Dodge's, etc. there are out on the road today???? Specs are created and others can apply in order to maintain brand name.....

That’s why I totaled my mark viii......fake pos!

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CuesDirectly · Dec 4, 2018

HawaiianEye said:
Here is a question for custom cue makers.

If you have a cue with YOUR name on it and YOU didn't ever touch the cue, should it be considered one of YOUR cues?

I'm talking about if you have maybe one helper and the helper does ALL the work and the cue is sold as YOUR cue.

It is still a custom, but not by the guy who has his name attached to the cue.

Is it still considered YOUR cue because you maybe trained the guy and it is made on YOUR equipment and maybe using your specs?

I

I like what Mercedes does with their AMG line. The car has the regular markings of the Mercedes but the guy who personally puts the motor together signs the motor cover.

Corvette does the same with their ZO6. They're fun too, I have done 150 MPH in each.

Maybe Meucci will start using his employee names on their cues?

billiardthought · Dec 4, 2018

My cue says mcdermott so I know the guy who made it has a last name of mcdermott. it's as easy as that.

greyghost · Dec 4, 2018

CuesDirectly said:
I

I like what Mercedes does with their AMG line. The car has the regular markings of the Mercedes but the guy who personally puts the motor together signs the motor cover.

Corvette does the same with their ZO6. They're fun too, I have done 150 MPH in each.

Maybe Meucci will start using his employee names on their cues?

Didn’t know that about benz.....ford does same thing with the cobras.

But then again in those situations that signing fellow put that engine together......it wasn’t made by 100 union mice slapping in 4 bolts then moving to the next mouse in the house.

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HawaiianEye · Dec 4, 2018

billiardthought said:
My cue says mcdermott so I know the guy who made it has a last name of mcdermott. it's as easy as that.

I'm not talking "production" cues.

I'm talking Hall of Fame Custom Cue Maker.

I talked to him yesterday and was going to have a shaft made for my Pancerny Titlist.

He told me, "I don't touch them anymore....xxx makes them now at my old shop."

His old shop is 100 miles from where he lives and he never sees the stuff that xxx puts out.

greyghost · Dec 4, 2018

HawaiianEye said:
I'm not talking "production" cues.

I'm talking Hall of Fame Custom Cue Maker.

I talked to him yesterday and was going to have a shaft made for my Pancerny Titlist.

He told me, "I don't touch them anymore....xxx makes them now at my old shop."

His old shop is 100 miles from where he lives and he never sees the stuff that xxx puts out.

Now we’re getting to the good stuff lol

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j2pac · Dec 4, 2018

HawaiianEye said:
I'm not talking "production" cues.

I'm talking Hall of Fame Custom Cue Maker.

I talked to him yesterday and was going to have a shaft made for my Pancerny Titlist.

He told me, "I don't touch them anymore....xxx makes them now at my old shop."

His old shop is 100 miles from where he lives and he never sees the stuff that xxx puts out.

Though I am not a cuemaker, if allowed, I would like to offer a thought, or two. At some point, maybe through age, medical reasons, etc...The cue-maker you're referring to, just can't, or doesn't have the ability to complete these tasks any longer. In preparation for this inevitability, he/she has taken the preemptive measure/s of training someone trusted, to carry on the brand. In your words, same specs, same equipment, same shop, yada, yada, yada. Does that make the new cola, any less a Coke? IMHO, no. The tool is being created by the student, in the spirit, and in the manner that the teacher desired. A Szamboti, may not, can not, will never always be a Gus, but it's still a Szamboti, nonetheless. I apologize for my intrusion into this forum, and of course, the scenario I have described, may not have any resemblance to your particular circumstance. Just offering one, of many possible lenses thru which to view.

Best regards.
Joe P

greyghost · Dec 4, 2018

j2pac said:
Though I am not a cuemaker, if allowed, I would like to offer a thought, or two. At some point, maybe through age, medical reasons, etc...The cue-maker you're referring to, just can't, or doesn't have the ability to complete these tasks any longer. In preparation for this inevitability, he/she has taken the preemptive measure/s of training someone trusted, to carry on the brand. In your words, same specs, same equipment, same shop, yada, yada, yada. Does that make the new cola, any less a Coke? INHO, no. The tool is being created by the student, in the spirit, and in the manner that the teacher desired. A Szamboti, may not, can not, will never always be a Gus, but it's still a Szamboti, nonetheless. I apologize for my intrusion into this forum, and of course, the scenario I have described, may not have any resemblance to your particular circumstance. Just offering one, of many possible lenses thru which to view.
Best regards.
Joe P

Rep to you sir that is def the finest example any one of us could apply to support the idea

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cueman · Dec 4, 2018

A brand name is a brand name. He was honest with you about what he does so I don't see a problem. I would guess close to 99% of all long term cuemakers have had helpers at some point in their careers. Helpers in their shop or 1000 miles away is up to them if they trust the helpers to do what they want.

j2pac · Dec 4, 2018

HawaiianEye said:
I'm not talking "production" cues.

I'm talking Hall of Fame Custom Cue Maker.

I talked to him yesterday and was going to have a shaft made for my Pancerny Titlist.

He told me, "I don't touch them anymore....xxx makes them now at my old shop."

His old shop is 100 miles from where he lives and he never sees the stuff that xxx puts out.

Something else to consider...If the situation bothers you, and I am not saying that it should or shouldn't, simply contact the gent who might be making your new shaft, and work something out between yourself, the original "brand owner/builder" and the builder of the new shaft, for provenance sake (an LOA, or a signed authorization of build note, etc.) It seems to me, that maybe you're concerned about provenance, which is certainly understandable, if not respectable.
Hope this helps.

j2

HawaiianEye · Dec 4, 2018

j2pac said:
Something else to consider...If the situation bothers you, and I am not saying that it should or shouldn't, simply contact the gent who might be making your new shaft, and work something out between yourself, the original "brand owner/builder" and the builder of the new shaft, for provenance sake (an LOA, or a signed authorization of build note, etc.) It seems to me, that maybe you're concerned about provenance, which is certainly understandable, if not respectable.
Hope this helps.
j2

For me, I'm sure a cue/shaft built by the helper should be just as "good" as the master's, assuming he was properly trained and adhered to all the standards.

However, if somebody other than the master is making it, I'm not sure that he should be charging the "master's" price...he isn't the master.

If using the same equipment, with the same specs, is all that matters, then I guess most Tascs could be called "Balabushkas" and there are tons of other cues made to the same specs, and looks, as cues of famous makers.

I'm not making a fuss about anything and me and the maker go way back, but I have owned cues by the maker and I couldn't really call the shaft "his", when it wasn't made by "him".

I may buy one, anway, but I don't think it will carry the same significance as it would if it were made by the master.

Mcues · Dec 4, 2018

What the rest of us thinks about it is really irrelevant. The man owns his business and he can do whatever he wants. The fact that he was honest about this particular business practice says a lot.
It's always up to the buyer to buy or pass. The manner in which you've brought this subject up says you think something is wrong, and that's really up to you to decide, you don't need our support.

Mario

j2pac · Dec 4, 2018

HawaiianEye said:
For me, I'm sure a cue/shaft built by the helper should be just as "good" as the master's, assuming he was properly trained and adhered to all the standards.

However, if somebody other than the master is making it, I'm not sure that he should be charging the "master's" price...he isn't the master.

If using the same equipment, with the same specs, is all that matters, then I guess most Tascs could be called "Balabushkas" and there are tons of other cues made to the same specs, and looks, as cues of famous makers.

I'm not making a fuss about anything and me and the maker go way back, but I have owned cues by the maker and I couldn't really call the shaft "his", when it wasn't made by "him".

I may buy one, anway, but I don't think it will carry the same significance as it would if it were made by the master.

No particular disagreement from me my friend. Just offering some of my own thoughts. Having a good provenance with a reputable makers cue, and being honest about the item/s origins, are something that we certainly agree on.

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