Gabby from Houston.......

pt109 · Sep 8, 2019

ShootingArts said:
Almost everyone on this forum celebrates the great action days of Detroit, never mind that drug money fueled almost all of it. We are quick to forget the crimes of most good pool players, this dirtbag beating old ladies being one of the few beyond the pall. We all have sweet little old ladies in our families and can relate to the victims. Most of the easy money floating around pool halls is from people who can't legally declare the income. The rest comes from gambling addicts that can't resist throwing good money after bad until they are broke. The other money is either small amounts or damned hard to get, smart money is tough money.

When I gambled nightly I was well aware I was taking money from pimps, drug dealers, gigolos, mostly lowlifes of all descriptions. Back then there were always a few hustlers around living on the margin. They weren't so much pool hustlers as hustlers chasing a dollar. Horses, cards, dice, all kinds of petty crime, occasionally some would dip into major crime. Some of the people that were nice guys at the pool hall went down for major crimes. I wouldn't have associated with someone that was robbing little old ladies but with no proof I wouldn't have turned him in either. I wasn't real fond of the police and had contacted them once about a prominent murder. They weren't interested.

I had to get a little older and gain a little social consciousness before all of the dirty money I won came to bother me. At the time I was just a shark among sharks and money was as much a way of keeping score as anything else. Of course I didn't give it back after the session was over! Part of me says money is money, it has no past. Another part says that the money I won meant I indirectly profited from the crimes that the person I took it from committed. Anybody in business takes money from criminals for goods and services without a thought, I did at my businesses too. Somehow winning it gambling seems different.

A morals issue I have that I can't really solve. My head says one thing, my heart another. The old picture earlier in the thread looks very very familiar. Probably mistaken but I'll never know for sure.

Hu
.

When I was an action guy, I didn’t look for working people who were raising families.
I looked for wise guys...from my perspective, the wins were guiltless.
Coin-operated businesses were a big part of that action...money couldn’t be banked.
....and all the other illegal things.....bookies were the best action.

ShootingArts · Sep 8, 2019

I did the same

pt109 said:
When I was an action guy, I didn’t look for working people who were raising families.
I looked for wise guys...from my perspective, the wins were guiltless.
Coin-operated businesses were a big part of that action...money couldn’t be banked.
....and all the other illegal things.....bookies were the best action.

I did the same, making personal rules to avoid fleecing the sheep. It was only the people that thought they were wolves that I took for real money. Anybody willing to play twenty, fifty, occasionally a hundred a game on a bar table wasn't likely to be working for wages. It is only many years after getting away from the nightly gambling that I think more about the people I fleeced probably taking their money from the working people one way or another.

Most of the guys I played with were pretty lightweight criminals but a few were armed robbers, a few were made men. I had a pretty loose set of morals, I wasn't my brother's keeper. I only took responsibility for my own actions. Usually didn't care what anyone else did. About the time I quit gambling nightly I met a man that became my best friend. We were friends by the time I found out he had murdered two people, shot more, maybe killed more. What the hell, we were friends and the justice system had already had it's way with him. One he did eight years on Angola State Farm for, the other he skated other than racking up huge legal fees, some of which might have been passed on as juice.

My friend has been dead a lot of years now but he did me many a good turn and never a bad one. Not many people I can say that about. RIP Roland!

Hu

Hungarian · Sep 8, 2019

Shit, aught to get him in the booth.

michael4 · Sep 8, 2019

ShootingArts said:
When I gambled nightly I was well aware I was taking money from pimps, drug dealers, gigolos, mostly lowlifes of all descriptions.

I had to get a little older and gain a little social consciousness before all of the dirty money I won came to bother me. …...A morals issue I have that I can't really solve. .

HU, really no need to worry about this, had their money not gone to you, it would have gone to drugs, booze, burgers, women or lime green suits...…

do you think McDonalds has a moral issue when drug dealers buy big macs? You had zero part in what ever crimes they were into...…

sleep well.

michael4 · Sep 8, 2019

TATE said:
Mouise Pouncey, 47, pleaded guilty to one count of armed robbery in the 184th State District Court in March 1999. He is currently serving a 40-year sentence in the Texas Department of Corrections.

Carlton Keith Jackson, 46, was convicted of armed robbery in the 337th State District Court and was sentenced to 20 years. He is currently serving a 19-year sentence in the Federal Bureau of Prisons for the distribution of crack cocaine.

Jacksons wife, Lisa Renee Jackson, was convicted of aggravated robbery and sentenced in 1999 to 40 years in connection with the robberies.

hate what this guy did, but pretty long sentences for "one count"...In California you could kill a whole family and get less time......don't mess with Texas!

jay helfert · Sep 8, 2019

Island Drive said:
At least 5 times 9 ball 9 footer. Sets $300-$500. He was always good for 3 sets.

That's interesting. I never knew you played that good. You must have played Keith even too. Did you beat him as well?

jay helfert · Sep 8, 2019

ShootingArts said:
I did the same, making personal rules to avoid fleecing the sheep. It was only the people that thought they were wolves that I took for real money. Anybody willing to play twenty, fifty, occasionally a hundred a game on a bar table wasn't likely to be working for wages. It is only many years after getting away from the nightly gambling that I think more about the people I fleeced probably taking their money from the working people one way or another.

Most of the guys I played with were pretty lightweight criminals but a few were armed robbers, a few were made men. I had a pretty loose set of morals, I wasn't my brother's keeper. I only took responsibility for my own actions. Usually didn't care what anyone else did. About the time I quit gambling nightly I met a man that became my best friend. We were friends by the time I found out he had murdered two people, shot more, maybe killed more. What the hell, we were friends and the justice system had already had it's way with him. One he did eight years on Angola State Farm for, the other he skated other than racking up huge legal fees, some of which might have been passed on as juice.

My friend has been dead a lot of years now but he did me many a good turn and never a bad one. Not many people I can say that about. RIP Roland!

Hu

I NEVER asked anybody in the poolroom how they made their money. That was none of my business! And I think a lot of them respected me for that. Of course I would hear stories about some of the guys and I didn't gossip about them. One of my best friends in L.A. area poolrooms was named Leon, an admitted bank robber. He looked out for me a couple of times when people tried pulling a fast one on me, like not paying. Leon always had his .45 neatly tucked under his flannel shirt.

This big tush hog held the $100 stakes for a game I played one time and refused to give it to me after I won. Leon saw me having an animated conversation with the guy and asked me afterwards what that was all about. I told him how the guy stole $100 from me. Leon said he would take care of it. He got up and walked over to the guy and they had a short conversation. I saw Leon lift up his shirt for a couple of seconds and then put it back down. The tush hog reached in his pocket and handed over the money. Leon came back over and handed me the money. Calm as could be he said I would never have a problem with that guy again.

Unfortunately, Leon pulled one robbery too many. He robbed Pinks, a well known fast food stand in Hollywood, and a motorcycle cop happened to be pulling up as he took off. He got chased down by the cops and was killed in a shoot out while trying to get away. He made the front page of the Los Angeles Times the next day. Leon told me once that robbing banks was his job and that's all he knew how to do. Say what you want, but he was my friend. I didn't agree with his lifestyle but I made no judgement about it.

iusedtoberich · Sep 8, 2019

Jay: check out the movie “The Old Man and the Gun”. It’s about a career bank robber based on a true story. The guy just loved to rob banks. He was addicted to it.

ShootingArts · Sep 8, 2019

Took things the same way

jay helfert said:
I NEVER asked anybody in the poolroom how they made their money. That was none of my business! And I think a lot of them respected me for that. Of course I would hear stories about some of the guys and I didn't gossip about them. One of my best friends in L.A. area poolrooms was named Leon, an admitted bank robber. He looked out for me a couple of times when people tried pulling a fast one on me, like not paying. Leon always had his .45 neatly tucked under his flannel shirt.

This big tush hog held the $100 stakes for a game I played one time and refused to give it to me after I won. Leon saw me having an animated conversation with the guy and asked me afterwards what that was all about. I told him how the guy stole $100 from me. Leon said he would take care of it. He got up and walked over to the guy and they had a short conversation. I saw Leon lift up his shirt for a couple of seconds and then put it back down. The tush hog reached in his pocket and handed over the money. Leon came back over and handed me the money. Calm as could be he said I would never have a problem with that guy again.

Unfortunately, Leon pulled one robbery too many. He robbed Pinks, a well known fast food stand in Hollywood, and a motorcycle cop happened to be pulling up as he took off. He got chased down by the cops and was killed in a shoot out while trying to get away. He made the front page of the Los Angeles Times the next day. Leon told me once that robbing banks was his job and that's all he knew how to do. Say what you want, but he was my friend. I didn't agree with his lifestyle but I made no judgement about it.

Jay,

As you know, we share quite a bit in common. I took things and people the same way. I never asked or cared what somebody did. Word might reach me, somebody might tell me themselves but what they did for a living was their business. Like you I judged people by their dealings with me or close friends. Sounds like I would have been fine shooting pool with the guy this thread is about, not knowing his outside work.

A chuckle, I was sitting at a bar room table near an action table when one of the girls working there rolled a cigarette and passed it around to the other people at the table next to me. I was almost certain it was BS, but I didn't care anyway. About ten minutes later she couldn't stand it anymore and came over to tell me it was just tobacco. Told her I didn't care. That was when I found out that word had spread all over North Baton Rouge I was a narcotics officer "everybody knew it". Only moderately long hair and beard, in the seventies I had to be a narc! Told her the rumor was wrong but I'm sure it floated around for years.

Hu

Island Drive · Sep 8, 2019

1979

jay helfert said:
That's interesting. I never knew you played that good. You must have played Keith even too. Did you beat him as well?

In Costa Mesa once....ask Kieth. 2 sets.

jay helfert · Sep 9, 2019

Island Drive said:
In Costa Mesa once....ask Kieth. 2 sets.

I don't need to ask Keith. I already asked you. Sounds like you broke even. You won the first set and he won the second. That's just a wild guess.

I played him a couple of times when he was just a pup. I beat him once getting the eight in my poolroom and then he returned the favor at Hollywood Billiards a couple of years later. By then he was 18 or 19 and way too strong for me.

Oh, and I did win the big monthly tournament they used to have at the House of Billiards in Sherman Oaks. Must have been the mid 80's and I played Keith in the finals. He played a pretty loose set against me and didn't get serious until I was close to winning. Somehow I still managed to escape with the win. Toughest three hundred bucks I ever made. I don't know if you ever played that tourney, but all the best players in L.A. used to show up there once a month.

I remember when you asked me to play 9-Ball when I was the house pro at Yankee Doodles in Long Beach. I took a pass! :smile:
I would have probably played you some One Pocket but I think you only wanted to play 9-Ball. Maybe you remember that better than me.

jay helfert · Sep 9, 2019

ShootingArts said:
Jay,

As you know, we share quite a bit in common. I took things and people the same way. I never asked or cared what somebody did. Word might reach me, somebody might tell me themselves but what they did for a living was their business. Like you I judged people by their dealings with me or close friends. Sounds like I would have been fine shooting pool with the guy this thread is about, not knowing his outside work.

A chuckle, I was sitting at a bar room table near an action table when one of the girls working there rolled a cigarette and passed it around to the other people at the table next to me. I was almost certain it was BS, but I didn't care anyway. About ten minutes later she couldn't stand it anymore and came over to tell me it was just tobacco. Told her I didn't care. That was when I found out that word had spread all over North Baton Rouge I was a narcotics officer "everybody knew it". Only moderately long hair and beard, in the seventies I had to be a narc! Told her the rumor was wrong but I'm sure it floated around for years.

Hu

Boy, that's a bad label to get put on you. I was always clean cut looking too and a few times people wondered about me. I would have to smoke a doobie with them to put their mind at ease (and mine too

).

Island Drive · Sep 9, 2019

jay helfert said:
I don't need to ask Keith. I already asked you. Sounds like you broke even. You won the first set and he won the second. That's just a wild guess.

I played him a couple of times when he was just a pup. I beat him once getting the eight in my poolroom and then he returned the favor at Hollywood Billiards a couple of years later. By then he was 18 or 19 and way too strong for me.

Oh, and I did win the big monthly tournament they used to have at the House of Billiards in Sherman Oaks. Must have been the mid 80's and I played Keith in the finals. He played a pretty loose set against me and didn't get serious until I was close to winning. Somehow I still managed to escape with the win. Toughest three hundred bucks I ever made. I don't know if you ever played that tourney, but all the best players in L.A. used to show up there once a month.

I remember when you asked me to play 9-Ball when I was the house pro at Yankee Doodles in Long Beach. I took a pass! :smile:
I would have probably played you some One Pocket but I think you only wanted to play 9-Ball. Maybe you remember that better than me.

I have no reason to lie. $300 a set and Frank from LB was with me. Kieth, he had no backer and if we would of kept playing I would of lost it back, was fortunate he was emptied out after 2 sets. He had me 10-6 going to 11 in the second set, roll out 9 ball. I won that set on the hill.

ShootingArts · Sep 9, 2019

simulated smoking

jay helfert said:
Boy, that's a bad label to get put on you. I was always clean cut looking too and a few times people wondered about me. I would have to smoke a doobie with them to put their mind at ease (and mine too ).

A friend straddled the fence. Acknowledged as the local head of organized crime, he also middle manned between criminals who couldn't talk to the police directly and the police and he sold many a pound of state police evidence in the days when a person would much rather be caught with an ounce than a few pounds. He went to narc school for a few days or a week. They taught him to simulate smoking pot. I asked him if you got just as high. He said yes. I asked him the difference and he said none except you could say in a courtroom you used the simulated smoking technique so the cops weren't breaking the law themselves.

Yeah, being thought a narc could have been very dangerous especially as much time as I spent alone in rough places. Being big and ugly and thought to be carrying was a bit of a discouragement in the seventies and eighties. I wasn't carrying until I moved away from that area but anyone that assumed I was a narc would have to assume I was packing.

I smoked but only with friends which didn't include people I played pool with, a few of the working girls but not too many of them. I wasn't a trusting soul and the person calling me a narc might be a narc themselves. A hair over an ounce and you were considered a dealer. Also, no such thing as a first offense dealer. They figured by the time you were a dealer you had broken the law many times. This all justified up to twenty years for anything over an ounce. Angola is on an island in the Mississippi. Not a place to be. Louisiana was infamous for somebody serving twelve years in Angola for one joint back then! I had the cops come tear a corvette and a few other nice cars apart looking for so much as one seed or residue too. Either one would have had the vehicle confiscated.

Hu

HouTexPlayer · Sep 9, 2019

Met Gabby and saw him play several times in Houston in the mid 90's - heck of a pool player - wouldn't pi** on him if he was on fire though after what he did.

dabarbr · Sep 9, 2019

jay helfert said:
That's interesting. I never knew you played that good. You must have played Keith even too. Did you beat him as well?

Jay, you highly underestimate Bill's game. I also beat Gabby a couple of sets and he pulled up. Bill and I played each other many times and neither one of us could get the better of it.
I beat Keith three sets playing seven ahead and getting the last two, playing roll out. Won all three sets and his backer wanted to put up a check for another but I didn't go for that. I got the last two because I knew he would give it to me. Not sure I needed it. Bill could play.

dabarbr · Sep 9, 2019

jay helfert said:
I don't need to ask Keith. I already asked you. Sounds like you broke even. You won the first set and he won the second. That's just a wild guess.

I played him a couple of times when he was just a pup. I beat him once getting the eight in my poolroom and then he returned the favor at Hollywood Billiards a couple of years later. By then he was 18 or 19 and way too strong for me.

Oh, and I did win the big monthly tournament they used to have at the House of Billiards in Sherman Oaks. Must have been the mid 80's and I played Keith in the finals. He played a pretty loose set against me and didn't get serious until I was close to winning. Somehow I still managed to escape with the win. Toughest three hundred bucks I ever made. I don't know if you ever played that tourney, but all the best players in L.A. used to show up there once a month.

I remember when you asked me to play 9-Ball when I was the house pro at Yankee Doodles in Long Beach. I took a pass! :smile:
I would have probably played you some One Pocket but I think you only wanted to play 9-Ball. Maybe you remember that better than me.

In that tournament in Sherman Oaks Me an Ron Rosas won it so regular that they put both of us with a two game handicap. Ron mostly quit playing and I continued to play and win my share.

jay helfert · Sep 10, 2019

dabarbr said:
Jay, you highly underestimate Bill's game. I also beat Gabby a couple of sets and he pulled up. Bill and I played each other many times and neither one of us could get the better of it.
I beat Keith three sets playing seven ahead and getting the last two, playing roll out. Won all three sets and his backer wanted to put up a check for another but I didn't go for that. I got the last two because I knew he would give it to me. Not sure I needed it. Bill could play.

Thanks Frank. That's why I ducked him to play 9-Ball. I would have played him One Pocket or Banks back then and he might not have liked it. He declined those games with me.

Fatboy · Sep 10, 2019

I remember when Ron Rosas would come to Sacramento and play in the mid to late 80’s he was solid. Was always lots of rail action with birds who didn’t know him(the rail birds were clueless-players knew). Things were so easy then......loose money, people actually gambled. Different planet now......

Hi Hu, hope you have been well and all is good in your life. Greenway Billiards was a hell of a action joint. Remember that?

cuenut · Sep 10, 2019

Fatboy said:
I remember when Ron Rosas would come to Sacramento and play in the mid to late 80’s he was solid. Was always lots of rail action with birds who didn’t know him(the rail birds were clueless-players knew). Things were so easy then......loose money, people actually gambled. Different planet now......

Hi Hu, hope you have been well and all is good in your life. Greenway Billiards was a hell of a action joint. Remember that?

Commander's Palace also had a pretty sporty crowd. Good to see you posting again Fatboy! Hope your health is good.

Gabby from Houston.......

WO double hemlock

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!

C'mon, man!

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Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!

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