Snooker vs English billiards

maldito

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Am posting this under Snooker rather than Caroms. Is English Billiards still played as it was played before Snooker and it brings into play potting balls caroms ,straight , cushion etc., also scoring the cue ball into a pocket and probably defense. Once had a book published from UK "Teach Yourself
Billiards and Snooker" - Richard Holt. Also author said
" a good billiard player can give a good snooker player a game but a good snooker player would not possess an earthly against a good billiard player at billiards". Is it apples vs oranges?? Never played either but have played pool and 3-c . It seems to me that the English Billiard player can pot balls and can play defense so I might agree with statement. English Billiards seems to be a vey interesting game but probably lost audience due extremely high runs.
 

Boro Nut

Moderrator
Silver Member
Yes. There have been many adjustments to limitations on consecutive scores and minor changes to the penalties over the years but essentially the game is unchanged. It is still played in the UK and Commonwealth, particularly India, and my local area is about as good as it comes nowadays. It is nowhere near as popular as it once was, and is a bit of a black art if you only play snooker and don't really know what you are doing. What seem to be incredibly difficult shots to the uninitiated are surprisingly easy once you have the eye and knowledge, but some seemingly trivial shots can be really hard. It requires a deft touch you seldom use in snooker.

The only other change of note is that the two cue balls are now standardaised as white and yellow, where traditionally they were both white and one had a spot. This itself was a throwback to the days of ivory balls, where the nerve through the centre of the tusk appeared as a spot.

It lives on in the standard scoreboard used for both snooker and billiards. The upper marker on the scoreboard has a spot. In snooker this is traditionally used for whoever breaks off. In billiards it is not that simple. Whoever wins the coin toss or string (lag) gets to choose which ball to use and whether to break or not, though in my experience most put the other man in to break using the spot ball. You also find the scores still being called out as "Two to spot" or "Two to plain" even though the balls are yellow and white. Everyone knows what it means.

Boro Nut
 

raybo147

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Boro you are in the hotbed for billiards if I remember, I actually played in the UK under 18 Billiards in Harrogate way back in 1990 I think, and I got some guy called David Causier who beat the crap out of me in a 1 hour match. It just meant I could start drinking earlier (yes it was under 18--not too hard to get served in those days!) That same day I beat Bill Werbunik out of about 6 beers paying snooker.
 

Boro Nut

Moderrator
Silver Member
raybo147 said:
Boro you are in the hotbed for billiards if I remember, I actually played in the UK under 18 Billiards in Harrogate way back in 1990 I think, and I got some guy called David Causier who beat the crap out of me in a 1 hour match. It just meant I could start drinking earlier (yes it was under 18--not too hard to get served in those days!) That same day I beat Bill Werbunik out of about 6 beers paying snooker.
I knew we had something in common. Getting reamed by Dave Causier at Billiards. He was runner up in 2004 for the world championship so it's no disgrace. Here's the results for the 2005 championships. It's amazing how many are products of the same small town boys billiards league. The amazing Mike Russell, Gilchrist, Causier, Shuttt, Lagan, Bennett, & Hirst. I've actually beaten two of those.

Boro Nut
 

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
maldito said:
" a good billiard player can give a good snooker player a game but a good snooker player would not possess an earthly against a good billiard player at billiards"

I agree whole this statement. I play a decent game of snooker, but I am useless at billiards.

My best run in English Billiards occurred because I fluked my way into some top of the table play. I didn't play the balls into position with any purpose, it just happened, and I had watched enough of it on youtube to recognize the position. :D
 

smashmouth

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Boro Nut,

I was reading some posts on Billiards in a snooker forum a couple years back and was stunned to see that Carom is barely heard of in the UK

I mean you guys are part of Europe which is the Carom capital, and the game itself is more popular worldwide and has more players than snooker and maybe even pool, yet nobody had even heard of a pocketless table

What's up with that?
 

Boro Nut

Moderrator
Silver Member
smashmouth said:
Boro Nut,

I was reading some posts on Billiards in a snooker forum a couple years back and was stunned to see that Carom is barely heard of in the UK

I mean you guys are part of Europe which is the Carom capital, and the game itself is more popular worldwide and has more players than snooker and maybe even pool, yet nobody had even heard of a pocketless table

What's up with that?
Well basically we had our own game played on our own tables to our won rules. In fact when I first learned of the game I couldn't see the point. I understand a lot more about it and the skill involved now. I still think having diamonds to help you aim is cheating though, and would rather play the English game, but I'm biased obviously.

Strangely, the few carom specialists I recall trying to dip their toes into English Billiards (or in multi-sport challenges) were curiously inept. They had no problem running close cannons, but in-offs and pots seemed a bit of a lost art to them and they were all first round losers. I think the big tables smaller balls and strange cloth/cushion were probably a bit too much of a culture shock. I don't think they were anything other than run-of-the-mill Belgians though, and there is no financial incentive to make the change, so it would be unfair to judge on that basis. However, the expertise of the likes of Mike Russell and Geet Sethi at the top of the English game shouldn't be underestimated either, even though it's very much a minority sport nowadays.

Boro Nut
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
This is kind of an old thread, but I just saw this video link over in the carom forum and thought is should also be here.

This gives a nearly complete explanation of the game of English Billiards. It omits a couple of points, like the opening shot and detailed rules, but it is a good description of flow of the game and some game strategy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfCLcTPE6ls
 
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