Orcollo might try to beat the 626 record

sfleinen said:

Someone has a hair across his petutie. You need to read more carefully, as I was kindly asking the question, "have we?" conversationally in reply to your "we've already established he missed" thing. As you can tell from the plethora of replies from folks that come out of woodwork (including user accounts with singe-digits or early-teens postcounts), we've definitely not established that he missed.

I am in possession of "Willie's Game: An Autobiography" so I'm firmly in the "missed" camp.

And oh yes, you may not be familiar with me, as I've had a long hiatus (by choice) from these forums, preferring social media instead, but trust me, I'm also one that speaks his mind with complete clarity, no beating around the bushes.

-Sean

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You might not be familiar with me either. No misplaced hairs. It's all good. And please refer to documentation and facts, not silly long-winded argument.

All the best,
WW

WildWing said:

You might not be familiar with me either. No misplaced hairs. It's all good. And please refer to documentation and facts, not silly long-winded argument.

All the best,
WW

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What do you think we're doing here? The pictures I posted of the pages of Willie's Game (post #280) shows I'm one of documentation and facts as well, not "silly long-winded argument."

-Sean

sfleinen said:

What do you think we're doing here? The pictures I posted of the pages of Willie's Game (post #280) shows I'm one of documentation and facts as well, not "silly long-winded argument."

-Sean

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I think I've accounted for his later efforts. Please refer to them.

All the best,
WW

sfleinen said:

Dude, you're making a mistake here in going against Freddie. He has an established name in the pool industry, is a well-known match commentator, has a comprehensive grasp of pool industry, and I dare say I trust his word more than I do someone posting under the moniker "something_pool" with a single-digit post count to his name. Exactly who are you, anyway?

See, that's the problem with these wild-wild-west anonymous boards; one can say anything they want under an anonymous label, whereas social media at least keeps you honest because you're posting under either your real name or at least a name that can be tracked directly to a person.

-Sean

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Sean,

Tap tap tap brother!

I made comments about using our real name or at least have "some sort of accountability" ......nope, i was met with:

Why?

I have nothing to prove!

Im in protective custody lolololol....not

On and on and on......

People in general, are sceeeerd little rabbits.

Jeff

WildWing said:

Even if the video was made in the 70s, you think Alzeimers was clouding his memory? I don't think so, seeing him live in the 80s. I think it was just part of his schtick. We've already established that he missed on 527.

But I do have to wonder, what are you arguing? I'm saying he probably ran 589 and 609. The 589 was witnessed by Charlie, and we're not sure about the 609, but given his integrity, I believe it. I'm not sure where you're going.

I think I've provided enough documentation above. You tend to provide words, nothing more.

All the best,
WW

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I didn't say 70's, I said 80's.

And I thought, perhaps mistakenly, that this was the video we were talking about because something_pool says:

something_pool said:

It seems that there are conflicting reports from even Mosconi himself on whether he in fact missed or quit. I've never seen that book that you quoted, so thanks for sharing. But in this video interview, you can see Mosconi himself say that he never missed, but quit voluntarily: https://www.youtube.com/embed/qRKw56oAA-E (at ~7:18 in the video).

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Please note the upper left hand corner of the screen shot.

Lou Figueroa
big difference

The Mosconi instructional video, with interviews by Bill Flemming, apparently was published in 1981 (filmed in 1980): https://www.worldcat.org/title/willie-mosconis-world-of-pocket-billiards/oclc/8287079. Willie would have been about 67.

He apparently did suffer from Alzheimer's in his later years. He died at age 80, with the reported cause of death being a heart attack.

Here's a 53-min. version of that instructional video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yym21l9_Z3U

AtLarge said:

The Mosconi instructional video, with interviews by Bill Flemming, apparently was published in 1981 (filmed in 1980): Willie would have been about 67.

He apparently did suffer from Alzheimer's in his later years. He died at age 80, with the reported cause of death being a heart attack.]

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Agree, thought it was a bit earlier, but fine. I didn't think there was anything wrong with Willie at that time. It was in that same time period that he played in the legendary stars tournaments in Atlantic City. He was absolutely fine at that time. To put it in perspective, this is when some here have claimed he was suffering from Alzeimers, and said something wrong about the 526 run. I don't think so. He was fine at this point. I think he was just in the habit of saying he quit, rather than missed after 526.

All the best,
WW

De420MadHatter said:

My thoughts as well.
All pool games are simply round objects on a flat surface, and how well you can manipulate them.
People like Dennis are on another level in this aspect.
If the man can put up a 260 on a tight table, in just a few tries, he is more than capable of beating this record.

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Lol sometimes I wonder about people on here. You truly think it someone can run 260 on a 4 1/2" pocket they will have no problem running 627 with a 5" pocket?

How about this, I will bet anyone in the world 1k - 100k they can't beat the record on the same table with the same rules that John Schmidt played with in three months time. All I will require is a video of the run. They can live at the place and play every day.

Anyone in the world can get this bet. You guys better hurry I might change my mind in 65 years or so.

WildWing said:

Agree, thought it was a bit earlier, but fine. I didn't think there was anything wrong with Willie at that time. It was in that same time period that he played in the legendary stars tournaments in Atlantic City. He was absolutely fine at that time. To put it in perspective, this is when some here have claimed he was suffering from Alzeimers, and said something wrong about the 526 run. I don't think so. He was fine at this point. I think he was just in the habit of saying he quit, rather than missed after 526.

All the best,
WW

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According to the Alzheimer's Association the symptoms of Alzheimer's disease worsen over time, although the rate at which the disease progresses varies. On average, a person with Alzheimer's lives four to eight years after diagnosis, but can live as long as 20 years, depending on other factors.

Forgetting whether he missed or quit would be consistent with Stage 2 of the disease, during which he might forget something and otherwise function normally. But like I said, we don't know for sure but it is possible and perhaps even likely.

Lou Figueroa

I have not looked back here since I posted about not understanding senior citizens...

Thread has now turned to “Mosconi lies for years”.
526 must have not mattered at all to him then or it may have been poor advice from his sponsors.

Y’all are burying Mosconi’s high run in this process.
J.S. should have been reverent and stopped at 525.
Now he will probably start embellishing what wasn’t captured on video.

I see it as disrespectful. Mosconi's record was unintentional and based on the right time and place as he usually just quit at 150 and left.

John put in deliberate effort and I feel like other pros ought to take motivation from it but also to let it stand for a while just out of profesional respect.

Not saying that they shouldn't try or that they can or cannot do it faster than John did it. Just saying that the nice thing to do would be to just let John have the moment.

Personally, I would bet AGAINST Orcullo doing it in a week from scratch. I feel like that these top players have put up plenty of attempts at the Derby City in the past years and that John is right when he says that anyone who thinks it can be done in a week is underestimating the task. It's not just about stamina, it's also about pattern play. Without seeing the run that John put up I will go out on a limb and say that analysis of his pattern play from when he started seriously chasing the record to when he finally broke it would reveal that he improved greatly in that area.

vjmehra said:

Its a really odd statement in a way...on the one had he says please don't break my record...on the other he says, people don't realise how tough it was.

Personally I doubt anyone will post a higher run in a hurry, but if I were a pro I would never ask my fellow pro's not to try, it just downplays the achievement and makes it sound like plenty of people could and would do it if they could be bothered!

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John is saying that his fellow top pros are CAPABLE of doing it, not that anyone could. He is merely asking that they let it stand for a little bit so that it can be milked for breaking such a long standing record. Both for himself personally and for the good of the sport. He is right that major media likes to cover record accomplishments when the record seems really hard.

He is clear about how tough it was and knows that anyone attempting it will also realize that. But he is clear that anyone with the same amount of skill as himself or more is capable of beating it just as he did. Thomas Engert ran 498 in the 90s and he wasn't the best pro in Germany at the time.

JB Cases said:

I see it as disrespectful. Mosconi's record was unintentional and based on the right time and place as he usually just quit at 150 and left.

John put in deliberate effort and I feel like other pros ought to take motivation from it but also to let it stand for a while just out of profesional respect.

Not saying that they shouldn't try or that they can or cannot do it faster than John did it. Just saying that the nice thing to do would be to just let John have the moment.

Personally, I would bet AGAINST Orcullo doing it in a week from scratch. I feel like that these top players have put up plenty of attempts at the Derby City in the past years and that John is right when he says that anyone who thinks it can be done in a week is underestimating the task. It's not just about stamina, it's also about pattern play. Without seeing the run that John put up I will go out on a limb and say that analysis of his pattern play from when he started seriously chasing the record to when he finally broke it would reveal that he improved greatly in that area.

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I do know that DO and some of his crew has always thought he could beat it as Iv been told such long ago , I don't think he really cares about the respect factor one bit as other American and Euro players would ,, I don't think it's intentional I think it's more of up bringing and culture, he simply knows no better ,,
I like Dennis but someone dangled a carrot in front of him and that's what he's see's no more no less , if I happen to see him with the crew I will certainly bring up things you have talked about not that I have any pull but sometimes just putting a bug in there ear maybe he they will see there might be more to gain by waiting and it might be worth more in the long run and it's a win win win , JS wins the game wins and the next guy wins


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TheMarsMan said:

Lol sometimes I wonder about people on here. You truly think it someone can run 260 on a 4 1/2" pocket they will have no problem running 627 with a 5" pocket?



How about this, I will bet anyone in the world 1k - 100k they can't beat the record on the same table with the same rules that John Schmidt played with in three months time. All I will require is a video of the run. They can live at the place and play every day.



Anyone in the world can get this bet. You guys better hurry I might change my mind in 65 years or so.

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Pow! Right in the kisser.


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Luxury said:

Pow! Right in the kisser.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Is that the same Mars man who set up the match that he had both sides

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Nostroke said:

right-Efren won the biggest SP event in years after playing the game 3 weeks-Came in 2nd in the next one @ Roseland. Manalo won one too-had no idea how to play 'right' according to the experts. Orcollo, Melling, Lee Van amongst the high run leaders at the DCC-NEVER play the game.

Alex never plays the game yet confidently bet 4-8k vs Schmidt to 300 at the DCC when JS was at his peak and beat him 2 nights in a row.
Open your eyes.

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Let me be more specific since you OBVIOUSLY missed my point:

Talent without experience is useless when trying to run 626 balls.

Sure, Efren and to be honest, a ton of players down through the years were able to pick the game up very quick......in general.....but, i guarantee you any amount you want that Efren WOULD HAVE broke the record ......"if"..... he COULD HAVE.

And please dont come back with: He did not have an incentive.

Im pretty sure John is about (already has to me) to prove that there was an incentive, just not many that could actually do it without: Stopping their ENTIRE life....family, work, hobbies etc...etc just to "TRY" for maybe many, many months to years.

That my friend is why the record stood for over 60 years and may very well be the reason that John's 626 may stand for just as long or longer.

But: As far as i know, John didn't have anyone telling him, "ill give you $100,000 if you break Willie's record". I may be wrong, if i am, i stand corrected but, i doubt i am.

Not to mention, the free lodging, food etc...etc that ive heard being offered.

John didn't have that. Again, as far as I know that wasn't the case.

Bottom line:

Your talking tournament play where you get what you get...period.

Im talking about the knowledge of knowing what to do to keep the run going long enough to reach 500+ much less 626.

If you think it doesn't require a TON of 14.1 SPECIFIC knowledge, well, your misguided my friend.

Jeff

Bob Jewett said:

Maybe John should go there, run 627, and just stop.:smile:
I think he has a better chance than most.

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I agree!

Timing is key here and i think now would be a good time for him to try again "if" he cares to.

I completely understand if he doesn't because its a lot of work.

A ton of work, which is why top tier pros aren't beating their door down to "try".

terryhanna said:

Just saw this new post from Buffalo about this guys

View attachment 522223

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I dont think its disrespectful at all
The people Thinking its disrespectful must feel there's a solid chance someone could do it with prize money waiting on the end

I think its a really good thing for billiards in general