Can AZB Win Back Top Pros and Instructors?

lfigueroa said:

One of the things I love most about pool discussion boards going back to RSB is to hear about and discuss how players from divergent backgrounds find their way.

Players with backgrounds from carpentry, to plumbing, to academia, the military, students, medicine, cops and robbers, and engineers all bring their unique perspective to the discussion and that is great. Because it’s the guys that have done something other than pool their entire lives that I can identify with.

And for me, one of the things I always find most rewarding is when I can describe my own travails and someone will post in return something like: you know, that really resonated with me.

I like having pros around as much as the next guy. But what I have observed over the years is that most often the pro does not know how he does what he does anymore than prodigies or naturals from other sports. And so, you end with guys trying to describe and explain how to play pool and often (usually) those explanation don’t resonate, and/or are based in faulty logic, or can even be proven to be flat out wrong.

In addition, I believe we are not the pros's demographic (unless they're selling something or looking for a backer). Your average pro is not going to be dispensing pearls of wisdom and insight to the great unwashed here. Generally speaking, pros like to talk to other pros and us bangers like to talk to other bangers. Of course there are those here that put pro pool players on a pedestal and think we should grant them superior privileges, cutting them a wide swath while they deign to walk amongst us. I am not one of those guys.

For me I’d rather read what Bob, or Mike, or Dr. Dave, or PJ, or any number of other guys -- who bring a wealth of varied experience, knowledge and intelligent discussion to the table -- rather than hear from a pro who will not tolerate questioning while fans wring their hands on the sidelines wailing, “Oh please don’t harass him -- you’ll drive him away.”

And what is that “harassment?”

Here, it has been polite questioning and the proffering of divergent opinions and scientific explanations. The response has often been bumper sticker logic and fortune cookie insights and to those of you that like that stuff I say: mazel tov.

But many of us like a little more substance than that. So wail away if you must. But please remember: people can and should disagree here -- it’s a discussion forum and as long as it’s polite, all points of view should be welcome. If you just want to chant hosannas there's always FB.

Lou Figueroa

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SpiderWebComm said:

Many top instructors and top players shy away from posting content on AZB in fear of the avalanche of trolls that are sure to follow and knock. No one has the energy and attempting to help our community often results in far more trouble than it's worth. Forget the fact that many of these trolls can't play and can't teach -- it doesn't matter. It's a sociopathic desire to insult, knock down and chase off professional-level players, teachers and influencers of any value.

Top instructors and certainly nearly all of the pro-level players have chosen to jettison AZB in favor of social media, which is a tragedy for the forum and its community. It's a tragedy because it's avoidable and although it might be hard to fix, but it's not impossible to fix. Imagine a forum where the game's top players would post their thoughts on certain aspects of play. Imagine getting insight from a player as he/she discusses a recent win or loss and what they'd do to make adjustments in the future. At one time, this actually was a reality here at AZB but it didn't take long for a select few of know-it-alls to insult their writing style, their education level or imply they didn't know as much about pool as the legion of keyboard warriors who preyed on their every post.

Social media has spawned a comfortable environment from which they can self-moderate. With Facebook, as an example, if you become a thorn in someone's ass enough to make them turn purple, they can simply block you from their page. The end result is a healthy community of like-minded individuals whose only desires are to learn and engage with the top talent in the industry without the infinite loop of knockers and trolls.

Can AZB ever win them back? Can this forum ever change the atmosphere to be less toxic toward those who wish to share content? Clearly, "the internet is the internet," however, I think this forum can mimic many of the features of social media.

1) Invite all former and current top-ranked pro-level players back and give them moderator privileges in order to protect themselves. Someone can say, "Yeah, well, ____ posts here without problems." Sure -- I'm sure they do, but that's only because they can communicate in such a way on the forum that doesn't attract ridicule. Some players are insanely brilliant during play and knowledge, but they just can't convey it properly without the legion of pro-bashers and grammar police who come out of the woodwork. Should a player abuse that privilege, simply remove them from the player pool and the rights that go along with it.

2) Provide instructors their own sub-forums with moderator privileges within the sub-forum. Leave cesspool forums like "THE AIMING FORUM" be, just simply give instructors a private sub-forum from which to moderate their own discussion. That way, the 5 or 6 guys who pollute every single aiming thread can get kicked, allowing the group who want to learn....learn. Let instructors direct people from the aiming forum to his/her own sub-forum for uninterrupted discussion. Allow instructors to direct people from the Ask the Instructor forum to their own sub-forum for uninterrupted discussion.

Facebook does the above in spades. Users follow their content source and adhere to their rules. In exchange, they benefit from the knowledge. AZB can make a few microscopic changes that net huge beneficial results. Some people in this thread will say, "Mehhhhh... there isn't a problem." Some might even try to attack me for even suggesting such a thing. I think if 5 or 6 certain guys were locked out of CTE threads by Stan and unable to interfere with instruction, they'd go BERSERK because they'd be unable to troll and that's their favorite thing.

Can we get the top players to post here and change this brand from "NEVER" to "I LOVE IT THERE?"

Can we create environments in which people can learn without an endless stream of ridicule and debate?

By the way, I'm not saying create a combative-free environment. Forum wars have always driven most of the site traffic. I'm merely saying to create sub-forums that are moderated by content experts and players to create relaxing educational atmospheres free of any emotional combative energy for those who want to learn.

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SpiderWebComm said:

Anyways, this thread was somewhat of a facetious thread because I knew exactly how it would evolve long before I posted it.

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Low500 said:

Spider, that is an excellent post.
However, friend, you're pissing into the wind and letting it blow back in your face around this joint.
Time to get out, my man.

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Low500 said:

you're pissing into the wind and letting it blow back in your face around this joint.

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Nostroke said:

+! Best post of yours i have ever read.

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BC21 said:

I like your style, Lou. Great post.

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JC said:

And of course you don't see the irony, which is one of the constants of the aiming cult.

They never do.

You people are as predictable as the sun rising in the East. No wonder Lou likes trolling you.

JC

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SpiderWebComm said:

I'm not sure if you had that same position with John Schmidt a few years ago when he was gonna knock your teeth out for trolling him to death and you told him how great your lawyer was. Was that at the Riviera? I forget.

Anyways, this thread was somewhat of a facetious thread because I knew exactly how it would evolve long before I posted it. Lest anyone believe there was going to be an sudden admiration of pro players and such.

Good to see Lou post who probably has the record here of chasing away instructors and pros ��

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lfigueroa said:

As you well know, I have you on Ignore so I don't have to read your incessant drivel.

Nonetheless, a friend advised me to look at this recent post of yours.

As you also know well, what happen with JS was that a third party told him that I had said something negative about him, presumably online. I don't know what it was alleged that I said.

Many years ago JS confronted me at the US One Pocket Open and was very belligerent. I stood there not understanding why he was going off one me and after several tense minutes he eventually stomped off.

The next year JS approached me at the DCC and apologized.

He told that someone had said I had said something negative about him (to this day don't know what that was) and when he told that party that he had confronted me that unknown individual back-peddled and admitted that I hadn't said anything at all. John and I shook hands and every year thereafter, when we see each other at the DCC we greet each other cordially.

You know all of this to be true but you would rather purposely lie.

Lou Figueroa

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JC said:

There are forums where you are required to use your real name verifiably and civility is required.

This not being one of them will not ever attract adult conversation uninterrupted by anonymous trolls.

JC

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AzHousePro said:

I noticed that you do website work for a living and know what you are talking about here.



Yes, we are running an outdated version of vbulletin. I have been hesitant to upgrade to version 4 or 5, because of concerns of plugin incompatibilities. I have been looking into the upgrade again though. I am also considering the idea of just migrating the entire forum to something like xenforo.



I am very interested in what plugins you are referring to when you talk about them making the moderation and dealing with trolls easier.



I am 100% opposed to the idea of "pay to play", Even with our gold membership, I have never been comfortable taking away something that users have always had, in order to make a buck.



Mike

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