I think i am very close to an agreement that swerve cancels squirt, the one thing in my mind, is it because you, Dr. Dave and others shoot with cue elevated and hitting cue somewhat downward produces more friction with cloth, than shooting with level paralleled cue? I know You or, and Dr. Dave said squirt does not depend on friction, but i still have my doubts.
Viability of English and Low Squirt Shafts
- Thread starter ndakotan
- Start date
I think i am very close to an agreement that swerve cancels squirt, the one thing in my mind, is it because you, Dr. Dave and others shoot with cue elevated and hitting cue somewhat downward produces more friction with cloth, than shooting with level paralleled cue? I know You or, and Dr. Dave said squirt does not depend on friction, but i still have my doubts.
The shaft diameter doesn't really matter - you can't get the bottom of a level shaft below 1 3/4" on most pool tables (even higher with the thicker butt over the rail), and that's too high:
pj
chgo
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Everybody shoots downward; it's inescapable (see my drawing above). Anyway, shooting downward doesn't increase squirt; it increases swerve, which looks like less squirt.
pj
chgo
... only at certain speeds, cue elevations, shot distances, and conditions (for a given shaft).
I shoot with the cue as level as possible (except when I need elevation for deliberate swerve, jump, or quick draw, or to clear an obstacle ball or cushion). However, with the cue as level as possible, it is still not level (due to required clearance over the rails). Anytime the cue is not level, there is swerve. The amount of swerve is small for small elevations, but there is still swerve; and in certain situations, the swerve effect can be just the right amount to cancel the squirt effect.
Squirt does not depend on cloth conditions, but swerve most certainly does. Therefore, net CB deflection (the combined effects of squirt and swerve, AKA "squerve") does depend on cloth conditions.
I'm glad the squirt and swerve story seems to be becoming more clear for you and some others.
Regards,
Dave
Thank you sir. One minor addition for those wishing to duplicate the test. The level must be clipped on the forward portion of the shaft.
Since ques get wider toward the butt the top and bottom lines are not parallel with each other...and therefore not parallel with the centerline of the shaft.
It is the centerline that determines whether the que is level. So, as suggested, the level should be clipped onto the forward part of the shaft...in the taper zone, where the top, bottom and centerlines are very nearly parallel with eachother.
Possibly illuminating the obvious, whenever the butt has to pass over a rail, it is that much more problematic to achieve a truly level cue than, say, when cueing with your hand flat on the rail such that only the taper portion of the shaft is passing over the cushion.
Stated yet another way to induce maximum frustration for the readers....(-:
IF the bottom line of the butt...which is what must pass over the rail...is level, then the tip will be positioned measurably higher over the table top than if the bottom of the forward portion of the shaft is level.
Now, to make you all pull your hair out...the closest thing there is to a level stroke that keeps the tip at or below the upper miscue line of the CB...assuming that some portion of the cue must pass over a rail...is when the portion of the cue that must pass over a rail is the most forward taper portion of the shaft.
(-:
Eagleman
And you've returned the favor with post #122. So many instructional materials say to shoot frozen rail shots with a level cue. I've always felt, well, less of a player for not doing so. Now I can bask in being less of a lesser ....
Jim
I agree. I shoot at the miss cue limit, i just noticed i do have very tiny downward elevation as i fire the shot not much to case huge swerve.
Middle of table CB, i think i get very close to leveled cue
Thanks to the pic nice one.
Thanks Dr. my cue seems to be perfect fit to where i bridge at, sure for long table shot i do squirt a little when shooting with high speed english. I am in agreement
Thanks Dave.
For Roger Long & whoever else might want to read this.
I spent 3.5 hours yesterday trying out CJ Wiley's Touch of Inside technique. I posted about the experience in CJ's 'wrist thread'.
I was reflecting back on it & the speed that I was hitting shots to assure that the CB deflected/squirted. The reasion is that I was obviously hitting the ball harder than I normally do & not getting the position that I wanted most of the time which is also not usual.
So here is something that I just realized. I was subconsciously more worried about hitting too softly and the CB not deflecting enough more so when I was hitting high on the ball. I did not have much concern when hitt low on the CB.
The resaon is that I was worrying that the CB might swerve and result in hitting the OB too full. This is a perception that I have through my experience. Like CJ sometimes says, we only recognize that with which we know or are familiar.
In hitting high and only a bit to the inside I was concerned that the CB would swere more than it would squirt if I did not hit it firm enough.
Keeep in mind that I'm playing in S.E. La. & that may be a contributing factor.
Just my thoughts on Mr. Long's premise even though I know it must squirt some. The question is in what ratio to the speed on a soft shot.
Regards,
I spent 3.5 hours yesterday trying out CJ Wiley's Touch of Inside technique. I posted about the experience in CJ's 'wrist thread'.
I was reflecting back on it & the speed that I was hitting shots to assure that the CB deflected/squirted. The reasion is that I was obviously hitting the ball harder than I normally do & not getting the position that I wanted most of the time which is also not usual.
So here is something that I just realized. I was subconsciously more worried about hitting too softly and the CB not deflecting enough more so when I was hitting high on the ball. I did not have much concern when hitt low on the CB.
The resaon is that I was worrying that the CB might swerve and result in hitting the OB too full. This is a perception that I have through my experience. Like CJ sometimes says, we only recognize that with which we know or are familiar.
In hitting high and only a bit to the inside I was concerned that the CB would swere more than it would squirt if I did not hit it firm enough.
Keeep in mind that I'm playing in S.E. La. & that may be a contributing factor.
Just my thoughts on Mr. Long's premise even though I know it must squirt some. The question is in what ratio to the speed on a soft shot.
Regards,
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