Deleting Account?

Roadie

Banned
things get so convoluted, ill try to keep it simple.

lets take a look at a single incident. youll have to take my word for it, or go to the "should i feel bad" thread to see this in actual writing.

scott stated simply: if a player goes back to his chair after a foul, and does not inform the player of his foul, he is a cheater.

so, if you follow the rules of pool and simply go back to your chair after a foul-- you cheated. the reason this is so important is that there are many good players out there that do this. there is a rule, a good one, that says outgoing players cant touch the cb. so, a lot of good players that i know simply go back to their seats after a foul and let the rest take care of itself. to look down upon these players who are really just doing what they think is correct, that is wrong, and scott was propogating this false statement. its not good because there is bad blood during pool matches because of this very poor logic.

there is no black and white here, scott is 100% wrong (if you are defining right/wrong by the rules of pool). so, where does that leave us? everybody can think what they want, but he is wrong, and even if everybody told him he was dead wrong, he'd still say he was right.

if he did say he was wrong, id be very impressed... id even come full circle and perhaps change my opinion of him. but he wont, even though it can be shown 100% that he is wrong. he will prove his true character.... you watch. he will say he is RIGHT! this is why ill keep my opinion of him. so if you want to keep your same opinion of him too, that hes this great guy. fine, it really is fine by me. best.....


Enzo,

Can you not see that this post disproves your entire premise? For the sake of argument let us say that Mr. Lee is 100% wrong about this. Let's say the rules are clear and the player is not required to call a foul on himself.

Can you see that a respected instructor who is only interested in advertising his business is committing a grave error with such an obviously wrong interpretation of the rules? Furthermore he labels people who don't call fouls on themselves cheaters who might have been viable prospects for his services. But by alienating them with his statement he may be costing himself clients. A person who is only interested in promoting their own business takes a much less controversial position and tries to pander to both sides of the topic, remaining adroitly balanced on the fence and tap dancing for your entertainment.

Lastly, you say that there is no black and white but that Mr. Lee is 100% wrong. You seem confused here as that would mean that the situation you describe is black and white if one side is 100% wrong and the other side is by default 100% right.

I happen to agree with Mr. Lee if the situation is thus; A player commits a foul in a match without a referee and the opponent does not see it. Morally the player who committed the foul should inform his opponent of it. If they do not they are cheating the integrity of the game regardless of what the rules say. If a player has committed a foul that is a ball in hand penalty then they certainly will be in no further penalty by picking up the cue ball and handing it to the opponent.

It is very sad if this is the entire basis of your attack on Mr. Lee and the ensuing drama of wanting to erase all of your content. However I would be very grateful if you would PM me the trick about erasing all of the content via a signature as there are some message boards where I may want to apply it. It would be nicer though if you would stay and continue to have good discourse.
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Really, how do you do it?...I'd really rather go out this way.

Listen, you, stop all this talk about deleting your account. I like reading your posts. :p

I will be the first one to say that I have felt *exactly* the way you do. In fact, if I had known in 2004 what I know today about this forum, I would have never posted with my own identity. BIG MISTAKE for me. It has caused me so much hurt and anger from time to time. I've been called "groupie" and a lot of other associated names. People attack my boyfriend, even though he's done *NOTHING* to them, only to try to hurt and/or anger me.

This forum experience should be enjoyable. When it is *not* enjoyable, then do take a hiatus or a break. I've done it multiple times. What's kind of cool for me is that my work productivity increases big time. I soon quit thinking about AzBilliards and replacing it with other things that bring me enjoyment. Again, "enjoyable" is the key word here.

I read your thread. I did not comment on it. When posts or threads are referring to another member with words that could cause hurt and/or anger, it's not a good thing. People start picking sides. Loyal friends defend the targeted person that was spoken about. Trolls and bullies side with anybody that gives them an opportunity to cause hurt and/or anger.

Today, there are ego bullies that think this forum isn't big enough for some folks, so they go out of their way to attack them, quoting their posts, disagreeing with them, almost stalking their posts. They want all the attention on the forum, so their egos are given a boost.

You are a valued member of the forum. Take it from me, there's nothing wrong with a little self-imposed hiatus. There's some good members here who I call friends. See you when you get back! :smile:
 

poolpro2

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think (sorry, I am a little cynical) Human Nature says: Most people, if they "know" they can get away with it... will try. Also, that increases with how bad you want to win, not necessarily how much you play for. I bet everyone remembers cheaters from Grade School, I do.

I pride myself for calling fouls on myself, fortunately it doesn't happen very often. I NEVER expect my opponent to do the same.

JMHO
 

GoldCrown

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
ENZO you only spite yourself by leaving here. You thought your thread was humorous and in good taste...and wanted to have some fun with it. So it didn't work out....learn from it and move on. People will respect you if you do that. Play by the rules and enjoy the forum. Their Forum... Their Rules. I don't think you really want out of here. You would not have started this thread.
If you do not like a particular member for whatever reason simply use the "I" feature.
 
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Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
enzo...Talk about convoluted...now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said the words you posted. What I said was, and I prefaced it with IMO, that I always call my own fouls, regardless of the situation...and IMO people who don't are cheating themselves. Do I believe that? Yes. I was joined in agreement by many others, and disagreed with by others (including some good friends). The fact that you chose to pick on only me for stating my opinion, even though there were many others with the same opinion, just shows your bias. There is one detail I failed to mention...for a LOT of poolplayers, their reaction depends on whether you're gambling or not.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

things get so convoluted, ill try to keep it simple.

lets take a look at a single incident. youll have to take my word for it, or go to the "should i feel bad" thread to see this in actual writing.

scott stated simply: if a player goes back to his chair after a foul, and does not inform the player of his foul, he is a cheater...
 
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Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Roadie...Apparently I must have missed it too. While I may hold a private opinion of enzo, to my knowledge I have never publicly attacked him/her here, or anywhere else. I have never PM'd this person, nor did I make any attempt to have his dirogatory thread removed. If you get "the full story", please let me in on it! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Apparently there is some friction between yourself and Mr. Lee that I have missed. My apologies for not knowing the full story between you both.
 
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SKILLZELITE

Universality
Gold Member
Silver Member
Life will continue either way, dont let disagreements run you off the board, you have a right to be here, there is no better forum for billiards imo,so dont exclude yourself from AZ,YOU INVESTED 6YRS, a disagreement shouldnt cause you to run and hide.
 
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SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Dude you sound like such a cry baby. You're going to commit forum suicide because you disagreed with something Scott said??? Get real.

Nobody ever agrees with anything I say and vice versa. That doesn't mean I'm scheduling a banning session for myself at 9pm or whatever.

The move is to just stop using azb for a few weeks (as I have in the past when my head was going to explode) and let things cool off. Put Scott on ignore if he bothers you--- prob solved, right? I'm prob on 20 people's ignore list - and ask me if I care.
 

Brian in VA

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
enzo

FWIW, all forums tend to hit prominent posters in the face from time to time. Have I butted heads with people on here? Yep. That doesn't mean I disappeared. If it's someone that I truly can't stand, I just put them on ignore so I don't have to read what comes out of their keyboard.

Can't imagine that forum suicide is worth it, not when there is so much good stuff on here. It's not like anyone will notice after someone is gone, so why bother? That's just me, though.

I've never given a moment's thought to how people would be able to continue without me. If I don't like the channel, I change it.

Brian in VA
 
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Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great post Neil. It's true that none of the instructors here purport that there is only one way to learn how to play better. All of us instructors (and I mean everyone, not just SPF or BCA) are aware that there are many ways to improve...some easier than others. In my mind, as an instructor, I want to provide my students with a method of teaching themselves, as well as a way to recognize and self correct errors AFTER they have developed an accurate and repeatable stroke. I think that appeals to most people who would like a short cut...if there is such a thing. To be sure, there are 1000's of great players who have "figured it out on their own". My hats off to them. I want to help the millions of others who are still struggling. I'm not quite sure why enzo finds that to be so appalling...or why it is such a "con" on others.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Enzo, why don't you just admit the truth to yourself? I'm going to assume you are a high level player and take your word for it. I have no reason not to. I'm also going to partially assume that your style of play is far from what Scott and others teach.

I say that, because you have a long history of trying to discredit anything the instructors on here say. Especially the SPF instructors. This is not the first time you have made posts with the sole intent of trying to make Scott and others look like charlatans, and you have stated that several times if my memory serves me correctly.

Your recent post was nothing but another vailed attempt to attack Scott and what he teaches. You didn't need his way, so you feel no one else should either. And, since you didn't need it, his way MUST be false and he is a charlatan. All this time, you have totally missed the point that for MOST, his way is the easiest way to get to a good level, not the ONLY way. You CAN get to a high level doing a lot of things "textbook" wrong. But, would you really want to pay someone to tell you to shoot anyway you want to, just play long enough, and eventually you might figure out what works for you?? That is what you are demanding Scott and others do.

And, since your thread was nothing but an attack on Scott, it should have been pulled. Too bad it was though, because you would have seen that the vast majority totally disagreed with you. As someone else said, I'm sure it got yanked because of all the attention it got to the mods by people reporting it to them. A thread gets that kind of attention, the mods find it easier to just delete it and be done with it. The mods work for free, and don't have 24/7 to spend babysitting on here either.They try and be as fair as they can, but it doesn't always work that way, and certainly doesn't always seem that way to both sides of a disagreement.

We all have gotten fed up with the forum from time to time. I sure have! It's all part of the passage of forums, and developing what some call a "thick skin". Not everyone is going to like what we write on here. And, sometimes, even though usually most people like what we write, we can write something that most will disagree with. When that happens, then you know it's time to re-evaluate our position on the topic and honestly see if we are jaded on it. It can be hard to change our thoughts about something we feel strongly about.
 

Spimp13

O8 Specialist
Silver Member
what im about to say may get me banned (that is a play on a malcom x speach btw).

here is my ultimatum to the mods.

put all my posts/threads back, or delete me and all my posts. implication being, i feel ive always acted reasonably, especially in light of what ive seen others get away with. and if you dont put it all back, i want out as i dont want to be a member under the guidelines of a "ruling and respected elite".

Don't take this the wrong way, this is totally speculative and I am just curious...but are you 15? That might be the weakest threat/ultimatum I have ever seen on here. For some reason I actually feel kind of sad for you. I think some music will help lighten my mood. Troll on enzo.
 

enzo

Banned
Enzo, why don't you just admit the truth to yourself? I'm going to assume you are a high level player and take your word for it. I have no reason not to. I'm also going to partially assume that your style of play is far from what Scott and others teach.

I say that, because you have a long history of trying to discredit anything the instructors on here say. Especially the SPF instructors. This is not the first time you have made posts with the sole intent of trying to make Scott and others look like charlatans, and you have stated that several times if my memory serves me correctly.

Your recent post was nothing but another vailed attempt to attack Scott and what he teaches. You didn't need his way, so you feel no one else should either. And, since you didn't need it, his way MUST be false and he is a charlatan. All this time, you have totally missed the point that for MOST, his way is the easiest way to get to a good level, not the ONLY way. You CAN get to a high level doing a lot of things "textbook" wrong. But, would you really want to pay someone to tell you to shoot anyway you want to, just play long enough, and eventually you might figure out what works for you?? That is what you are demanding Scott and others do.

And, since your thread was nothing but an attack on Scott, it should have been pulled. Too bad it was though, because you would have seen that the vast majority totally disagreed with you. As someone else said, I'm sure it got yanked because of all the attention it got to the mods by people reporting it to them. A thread gets that kind of attention, the mods find it easier to just delete it and be done with it. The mods work for free, and don't have 24/7 to spend babysitting on here either.They try and be as fair as they can, but it doesn't always work that way, and certainly doesn't always seem that way to both sides of a disagreement.

We all have gotten fed up with the forum from time to time. I sure have! It's all part of the passage of forums, and developing what some call a "thick skin". Not everyone is going to like what we write on here. And, sometimes, even though usually most people like what we write, we can write something that most will disagree with. When that happens, then you know it's time to re-evaluate our position on the topic and honestly see if we are jaded on it. It can be hard to change our thoughts about something we feel strongly about.

this is really a good post, the kind i like to see. truth is, i grew up in pool watching a guy (i hate to name names, but here goes) roy yamani teach. i like him, but i HATED the way he taught... i never really got too worked up about it as i was always so obsessed with my own game. but the whole thought and style of the way he taught just always perterbed me-- as in i just didnt feel that was doing anything for people. is scott roy yamani? no... but maybe i just feel that way about most teachers. i still dont agree with you on how people improve greatly, i think it is practice, pressure and watching good pool..... but hey, what do i know.... i just bet if i put my arguments forth on this, and 5 or so good to great REAL pool players read our arguments, i think id win.

but one thing peolpe are getting wrong, i have seen scott state stuff just blatanlty wrong on so many occasions... "most banks are made with a 1/4 hit" just the most outlandish stuff.... this last issue pushed me overboard because i see over and over players looking down on others that simply go sit in their chair after a foul, then subsequently asked if there was a foul, and the guy says YEP! and then the incoming player sees him as a kind of cheat cus he was supposedly trying to get away with something. i hate that, its not right. anyway, thanks for the thoughts, enough for now... be back later.... maybe, ha.
 
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brandoncook26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't really care one way or the other, but I read all the way through this thing so I feel like I'm invested enough to respond. Scott has always treated me with respect on this forum. I don't believe I've ever had direct contact with Enzo.

Why give an ultimatum to the moderators for banishment? It seems like a very sad attempt to get the attention you feel you aren't getting. Scott is a "respected member" and no one loves you? I'm sorry you feel that way. If you don't want to be here, then just stop being here. Why make a thread about it. Are you lacking in the self control to not post? This is the same as a suicide attempt where you call someone and tell them you're going to do it now. You know what they call that in psychology, a cry for help.

Sorry dude, if you didn't want to be here you would just stop showing up. The fact that you yelled it from the mountain tops just shows how much you want to be here. You're just hurt that you feel your opinion doesn't carry as much clout as it should. Happens all the time in life. If people knew anything about me here I would be much more "respected". Suck it up and move on with life.
 

enzo

Banned
This is your argument?

Tell me what was the CONTEXT that Scott made this statement in.

I remember a match a few years ago against two pros, the one at the table committed a foul, because of his body postion, the opponent did not see the foul. Continued shooting, and won the game.

What say you Enzo did he cheat?


im not sure why i have to answer this, but yes, he cheated. um, if u foul and u keep shooting, you cheated. and sombody just callled ME 5?! the context was he said people that go sit down after a foul have cheated. what other context is there? i cant go through every one of these kinda absurd statements. now a another guy is commenting on my grammer, lol. can u say bandwagon? if this was a thesis id get it right-- ooops, if this was a thesis i'd get it right (don't wanna upset your delicate sensibilities)
 
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Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
enzo...See? You got it wrong. I said most banks are a HALF ball aim...and many others are 1/4 or 3/4 ball aim...which, imo, is true. Some banks are a way thinner hit than that. It's okay if you don't agree with that, and I would never call you an idiot for doing so.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

but one thing peolpe are getting wrong, i have seen scott state stuff just blatanlty wrong on so many occasions... "most banks are made with a 1/4 hit" just the most outlandish stuff....
 
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TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
im not sure why i have to answer this, but yes, he cheated. the context was he said people that go sit down after a foul have cheated. what other context is there? i cant go through every one of these kinda absurd statements. now a another guy is commenting on my grammer, lol. can u say bandwagon? if this was a thesis id get it right-- ooops, if this was a thesis i'd get it right (don't wanna upset your delicate sensibilities)

I know Scott and took a couple of lessons from him. He's not like you think. He's focused on helping the individual player build good playing habits. He doesn't have "secrets" and BS theories. In fact, he is against that sort of thing. His greatest assets are experience and ability to see things in a player's stroke that need help.

Yes, he charges for his time. There's no shame in that - we all do.

Chris
 

enzo

Banned
I don't really care one way or the other, but I read all the way through this thing so I feel like I'm invested enough to respond. Scott has always treated me with respect on this forum. I don't believe I've ever had direct contact with Enzo.

Why give an ultimatum to the moderators for banishment? It seems like a very sad attempt to get the attention you feel you aren't getting. Scott is a "respected member" and no one loves you? I'm sorry you feel that way. If you don't want to be here, then just stop being here. Why make a thread about it. Are you lacking in the self control to not post? This is the same as a suicide attempt where you call someone and tell them you're going to do it now. You know what they call that in psychology, a cry for help.

Sorry dude, if you didn't want to be here you would just stop showing up. The fact that you yelled it from the mountain tops just shows how much you want to be here. You're just hurt that you feel your opinion doesn't carry as much clout as it should. Happens all the time in life. If people knew anything about me here I would be much more "respected". Suck it up and move on with life.

a cry for help, you'd have to know my idenity for that logic to hold up. something i'd never give out to this group.

ur right, this group is like booze to me.... i wanna be banned. what do i need to say to get it? but if you through all you should know that since somebody feels they can ban one of my opinions, why not delete them all? that is why the ultimatum. god my internet connection sucks :(
 

Pete

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
enzo...See? You got it wrong. I said most banks are a HALF ball aim...and many others are 1/4 or 3/4 ball aim...which, imo, is true. Some banks are a way thinner hit than that. It's okay if you don't agree with that, and I would never call you an idiot for doing so.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I would agree with Scott here (Hey Scott, I'm back to playing after a 2 year lay off, how are you???). From my memory, most are 1/2, 1/4, and 3/4 hits (that's how i aim). Some are thinner and thicker, but still those hits (IMO).

I understand not agreeing with someones teaching methods, but Scott has helped many players learn, and really cares. Just my 2 cents...

Pete
 
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